The Republicans' positions are loathesome and economically disastrous, and the people want them less and less. The Democrats are confused and cowardly, so their positions don't matter, and the people want them less and less.

Maybe both of these rotten organizations will crack up soon, and we'll actually start to have some real political open space in this country, instead of the ice-jam we've had for so long.  

Its possible the Democrats might be agreeing with the Republicans in talk only. The Democrats endgame hopefully is delaying until after elections when the Republicans will be even weaker.

You say the Republicans push an unpopular agenda and that the Democrats let them get away with it.  Neither sound like political parties that we want running this country.  

So, why then do so many turn away from the idea of a third party based on the assumption that "they can't win."  

Environment be damned, as long as we win the White House.

That is not the future that I want.

Wes Rolley CoChair - EcoAction Committee Green Party US

I should be clear: the Dems absolutely do not agree with Republicans on this. It is very much a strategy to get them through the next election, when they assume they'll have larger majorities and a Dem president.

grist.org

Not that I want to get too cynical, but the Democrats, since 1865, have been in the position of being the opposition party, with the Republicans in the position of being the ruling party.  Historically, the Democrats didn't propose much, but were there in case the Republicans screwed up so bad that people wanted something different.

That's how FDR got elected, but he actually did some things -- partly because there was a very strong Left that was breathing down his neck.  He also famously told some people who were trying to convince him of an action, "Go make me do it".

So now the Democrats have something of a legacy of doing something.  But unless there is strong grassroots push on them, they will simply crouch and wait for power to fall into their laps.

I'm a Johnny Come Lately to the Republican Party.  And you know what...the thing is, the people who are in it, by and large, are ordinary people!   In fact, they are the people the Liberals never talk about.   In the Liberal view of the world everyone is either, a Super Rich Do-Gooder who solves the problems of the planet with technologies and foundations, or they are hip bloggers living in condoes in Seattle's Belltown, or they are a downtrodden Poor Person, who goes around punching people and killing them, but only because the System is to blame.    There is no room in the Lib Cosmology for the 80 percent of people who live in the suburbs and go to work and have health care because of their job and who pay a mortgage.   The reason the Republican message is so powerful is because most people, if they took an honest look at their prospects and circumstances, would be Republicans...

Bailo, do Republicans like bike lanes?

I am a Republican.
I like bike lanes.

Therefore, some of the class of people known as Republicans, like bike lanes.

than Republicans, I would assume, both percentage-wise and in absolute numbers.

to higher prices -- but there has to be some kind of alternative proposal, or else the Republicans have the only proposal, unless it's just "not that proposal".

The only thing I can think of is to push immediately building high-speed rail, light rail, any rail, putting freight on rail, mortgages near transit, etc. -- mandate all plug-ins by some date?  But none of this helps people in the short-term -- but then, neither does drilling.

No the Democrats don't agree with the Republicans, but as David accurately notes the Democrats have a special talent for folding.

I am hoping the Democrats won't fold on oil drilling.

part of post from jabailo "have health care because of their job"

The republican politicians are the ones backing efforts by employers to stop providing health care benefits and shift the cost to the individual employees.

The Republicans are the party of the business class and represent the most right wing values of corporate America.  The Democrats are supposed to represent average folks, but instead are merely the liberal voice of corporate America.*  Not much of a choice, though that's not my point.

The reason that Democrats cave so easily is that they don't represent the right values in the first place.  Democrats get massive contributions from corporations just as Republicans do.  Bill Clinton actually got more financial support from the ruling class than George Bush did when they ran against each other.

If you support private autos, as the Democrats do, you also support the oil and auto industries along with all other industries needed for private auto travel, despite public comments to the contrary.  So when Republicans say that high gas prices are hurting people and that we must drill as much as possible, you have no choice but to either agree or propose other destructive methods to continue our ecologically destructive lifestyles.  It takes people with alternative visions to oppose destructive policies unequivocally and not cave in to crap like this.  There is no chance that Democrats will ever do this.

* The Progressive Caucus is obviously not included in this description, but it's less than 10% of the Democratic Party and is much closer in ideology to the Green Party that to its own.

Appealing to conventional wisdom, that is what the party does.  leadershop doesn't lead it panders to the lowest common mass delusion in the media.

Reality has to break through if change is going to happen.  Do we have enough influence to get that to happen?  As an amorphous movement.  

I think we have leaders who want to do it, Gore and others.  How do we help them get the message across?  Donating to and supporting most environmental orgs seems useless, as they have become shills for lobbying as usual.

It's a conundrum.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin