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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Wind-loss, wind-gain]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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		<item>
            <title>Comment #1 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/wind-loss-wind-gain/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 03:39:59 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/wind-loss-wind-gain/1</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Well, not sure where to post this.<p>Wind: 635,000 MW Possible with U.S. Political Shift <br>
<a href="http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48344" rel="nofollow">http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48 ...<br>
<a href="http://www.acore.org/pdfs/ACORE_Joint_Outlook_Report.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.acore.org/pdfs/ACORE_Joint_Outlook_Report.pdf<br>
<a href="http://www.acore.org/pdfs/dl-outlook.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.acore.org/pdfs/dl-outlook.pdf<p>
Wind Turbines Not a Threat to U.S. Bird Population, Says Study <br>
<a href="http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48393" rel="nofollow">http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48 ...<br>
<a href="http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11935&amp;page=1" rel="nofollow">http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11935&amp;pag ...<br>
</br></a></br></a></br></p></a></br></a></br></a></br></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Well, not sure where to post this.<p>Wind: 635,000 MW Possible with U.S. Political Shift <br>
<a href="http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48344" rel="nofollow">http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48 ...<br>
<a href="http://www.acore.org/pdfs/ACORE_Joint_Outlook_Report.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.acore.org/pdfs/ACORE_Joint_Outlook_Report.pdf<br>
<a href="http://www.acore.org/pdfs/dl-outlook.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.acore.org/pdfs/dl-outlook.pdf<p>
Wind Turbines Not a Threat to U.S. Bird Population, Says Study <br>
<a href="http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48393" rel="nofollow">http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48 ...<br>
<a href="http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11935&amp;page=1" rel="nofollow">http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11935&amp;pag ...<br>
</br></a></br></a></br></p></a></br></a></br></a></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by SustainableGreen</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/wind-loss-wind-gain/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 01:28:00 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/wind-loss-wind-gain/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Big Loss For Small Wind, and Apathy</strong></p><p>Hey, all:</p><p>
There are two things missing here. &nbsp;First, generation of electricity with small, distributed &nbsp;wind turbines is completely dismissed, this from a government that purports to support small business entities: &nbsp;'Small business is the backbone of America...blah blah blah blah stinkin' blah.' &nbsp;'Reduce the size of government.'--empty talk and outright lies. &nbsp;If it ain't BIG Bidness, it ain't worth shit. &nbsp;If we want ANY SORT of a populist movement, we have to foster it, support it, understand it, embrace it. &nbsp; &nbsp; Big Government, hiding behind the curtain of conservatism, will NEVER NEVER NEVER do it. &nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>
The second thing missing here is any elaboration or discussion of the full process of creation and operation of a wind farm. &nbsp;The report refers to one aspect--siting. &nbsp;Apparently ignored are two other important features: turbine layout and turbine design. &nbsp;Completely ignored and almost universally dismissed is the fourth feature: operational controls. &nbsp;It really is simple: if you are in heavy traffic you slow down; if you are operating a wind farm and a flock of birds or bats approaches, you slow or stop turbines. They are so proud of their low mortality calculation; the likelihood and mortality of an avian interaction with an unmoving blade is virtually zero.</p><p>
It is time to improve the technology and environmental responsiveness.</p><p>
David</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Big Loss For Small Wind, and Apathy</strong></p><p>Hey, all:</p><p>
There are two things missing here. &nbsp;First, generation of electricity with small, distributed &nbsp;wind turbines is completely dismissed, this from a government that purports to support small business entities: &nbsp;'Small business is the backbone of America...blah blah blah blah stinkin' blah.' &nbsp;'Reduce the size of government.'--empty talk and outright lies. &nbsp;If it ain't BIG Bidness, it ain't worth shit. &nbsp;If we want ANY SORT of a populist movement, we have to foster it, support it, understand it, embrace it. &nbsp; &nbsp; Big Government, hiding behind the curtain of conservatism, will NEVER NEVER NEVER do it. &nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>
The second thing missing here is any elaboration or discussion of the full process of creation and operation of a wind farm. &nbsp;The report refers to one aspect--siting. &nbsp;Apparently ignored are two other important features: turbine layout and turbine design. &nbsp;Completely ignored and almost universally dismissed is the fourth feature: operational controls. &nbsp;It really is simple: if you are in heavy traffic you slow down; if you are operating a wind farm and a flock of birds or bats approaches, you slow or stop turbines. They are so proud of their low mortality calculation; the likelihood and mortality of an avian interaction with an unmoving blade is virtually zero.</p><p>
It is time to improve the technology and environmental responsiveness.</p><p>
David</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/wind-loss-wind-gain/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 02:10:58 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/wind-loss-wind-gain/3</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Interesting solution</strong></p><p>"if you are operating a wind farm and a flock of birds or bats approaches, you slow or stop turbines."</p><p>
Remote human operatoin, with the help of some kind of bird/bat flock detection, might be possible.</p><p>
Small distributed wind needs new and better designs. &nbsp;There is a lot of lower speed wind potential out there that could be harvested if wind machines were less NIMBY prone.</p><p>
Less visible, quieter, lower speed blades, just above tree height designs that optimize for lower wind energy, localized home and small business siting.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Interesting solution</strong></p><p>"if you are operating a wind farm and a flock of birds or bats approaches, you slow or stop turbines."</p><p>
Remote human operatoin, with the help of some kind of bird/bat flock detection, might be possible.</p><p>
Small distributed wind needs new and better designs. &nbsp;There is a lot of lower speed wind potential out there that could be harvested if wind machines were less NIMBY prone.</p><p>
Less visible, quieter, lower speed blades, just above tree height designs that optimize for lower wind energy, localized home and small business siting.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by SustainableGreen</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/wind-loss-wind-gain/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 02:46:20 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/wind-loss-wind-gain/4</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Off-the-shelf Technology</strong></p><p>Hey, all:</p><p>
Hey, Amazingdrx:</p><p>
Remote operation is imminently doable. &nbsp;It can done from in the windfarm itself or half-way around the world--real-time, with practically instantaneous commands--one operator. &nbsp;The only lag is that of the blades slowing. &nbsp;You can have an operator in Beijing or Delhi watching windfarms in CA or TX--and given the 'gobbleization' trend, it ain't a bit out of the question. &nbsp; </p><p>
And bird/bat flock detection is called R-A-D-A-R. &nbsp;If you go back to the invention and development of RADAR, you'll see that operators were constantly mystified by tremendously varied unexplained objects on scopes. &nbsp; I don't know if it was religious fervor, religious butt-covering, or tongue-in-cheek, but they called them "ANGELS"! &nbsp; This was in the late 30s, and it wasn't until the mid 50s that they conclusively figured out they were birds! &nbsp;Much of the technology after that was for filtering what they now considered noise. &nbsp;Add newer technology such as microphones and infra-red sensors, and a dragonfly would not get through without detection. &nbsp;In fact, these are some of the research tools used to assess potential sites. &nbsp; </p><p>
And with respect, what small wind needs is financial, governmental, and public support first, even if what you suggest is also needed. &nbsp;There could be hundreds of thousands of small turbines on factories and warehouses alone, with no aesthetic or noise concerns needed. &nbsp;NIMBY issues were dispensed with long ago, all with negative impacts (habitat loss, pollution, urban squalor/sprawl, etc.). &nbsp;Turbines are a positive impact. &nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>
As you imply, where NIMBY issues do exist, more needs to be done, but we should not focus only on that aspect. &nbsp;There are plenty of "low-hanging fruit" to be picked.</p><p>
Thanks for the response.</p><p>
David<br>
Sustainability For Life</p><p>
Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!</br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Off-the-shelf Technology</strong></p><p>Hey, all:</p><p>
Hey, Amazingdrx:</p><p>
Remote operation is imminently doable. &nbsp;It can done from in the windfarm itself or half-way around the world--real-time, with practically instantaneous commands--one operator. &nbsp;The only lag is that of the blades slowing. &nbsp;You can have an operator in Beijing or Delhi watching windfarms in CA or TX--and given the 'gobbleization' trend, it ain't a bit out of the question. &nbsp; </p><p>
And bird/bat flock detection is called R-A-D-A-R. &nbsp;If you go back to the invention and development of RADAR, you'll see that operators were constantly mystified by tremendously varied unexplained objects on scopes. &nbsp; I don't know if it was religious fervor, religious butt-covering, or tongue-in-cheek, but they called them "ANGELS"! &nbsp; This was in the late 30s, and it wasn't until the mid 50s that they conclusively figured out they were birds! &nbsp;Much of the technology after that was for filtering what they now considered noise. &nbsp;Add newer technology such as microphones and infra-red sensors, and a dragonfly would not get through without detection. &nbsp;In fact, these are some of the research tools used to assess potential sites. &nbsp; </p><p>
And with respect, what small wind needs is financial, governmental, and public support first, even if what you suggest is also needed. &nbsp;There could be hundreds of thousands of small turbines on factories and warehouses alone, with no aesthetic or noise concerns needed. &nbsp;NIMBY issues were dispensed with long ago, all with negative impacts (habitat loss, pollution, urban squalor/sprawl, etc.). &nbsp;Turbines are a positive impact. &nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>
As you imply, where NIMBY issues do exist, more needs to be done, but we should not focus only on that aspect. &nbsp;There are plenty of "low-hanging fruit" to be picked.</p><p>
Thanks for the response.</p><p>
David<br>
Sustainability For Life</p><p>
Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Erik Hoffner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/wind-loss-wind-gain/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:18:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/wind-loss-wind-gain/5</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>update<p>Turns out that the Mass Dept of Envi Protection's Commish was able to overturn that wetlands decision and allow the permitting to go forward with proper safeguards in place:<p>
<a href="http://www.mass.gov/dep/public/press/0607hoos.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.mass.gov/dep/public/press/0607hoos.htm<p>
So this project is on again. It's only 20 turbines, but NE needs more power, coupled with more conservation. <p>
The recent heat wave here contained a day that ranked as the 6th highest demand day ever in NE, even though we were scarcely aware. If a couple power plants went offline for something routine that day, they could've sparked a problem for the whole region. 

<p><a href="http://www.orionsociety.org/ogn" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: 1000+ grassroots groups working for conservation &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>update<p>Turns out that the Mass Dept of Envi Protection's Commish was able to overturn that wetlands decision and allow the permitting to go forward with proper safeguards in place:<p>
<a href="http://www.mass.gov/dep/public/press/0607hoos.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.mass.gov/dep/public/press/0607hoos.htm<p>
So this project is on again. It's only 20 turbines, but NE needs more power, coupled with more conservation. <p>
The recent heat wave here contained a day that ranked as the 6th highest demand day ever in NE, even though we were scarcely aware. If a couple power plants went offline for something routine that day, they could've sparked a problem for the whole region. 

<p><a href="http://www.orionsociety.org/ogn" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: 1000+ grassroots groups working for conservation &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
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