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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Whither the environmental movement?]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by jrmassa22</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/whither-the-environmental-movement/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:44:19 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/whither-the-environmental-movement/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Whence the environmental movement</strong></p><p>Mr. Roberts makes some valid points. I think that in order for the environmental movement to make gains especially in the face of such a hostile administration, two things need to be done. The first is to make the media aware of issues. This means local, regional and national media outlets. If that means hounding them, so be it. People need to be made aware of what is being done. I think that if people were made &nbsp;aware of policies that are fouling the air, water and soil and how this will impact them, make them ill, then people will really galvanize around the issues. The second approach (and this I think is critical as a way to hopefully win over conservatives) is to equate a sick environment with the economy. Politicians need to realize that if the environment is in a bad way, that this will have deleterious effects on the economy. If the air, water, soil are fouled, people will be exposed to the pollutants; people will then be afflicted with chronic illnesses. Chronic illnesses result in more sick time taken, cuts into productivity and costs business more in the way of loss productivity and having to pay for sick time (for those companies that actually pay sick leave). I think this is where we need to go. Thank you.</p><p>
Jim Massa

<p>Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Whence the environmental movement</strong></p><p>Mr. Roberts makes some valid points. I think that in order for the environmental movement to make gains especially in the face of such a hostile administration, two things need to be done. The first is to make the media aware of issues. This means local, regional and national media outlets. If that means hounding them, so be it. People need to be made aware of what is being done. I think that if people were made &nbsp;aware of policies that are fouling the air, water and soil and how this will impact them, make them ill, then people will really galvanize around the issues. The second approach (and this I think is critical as a way to hopefully win over conservatives) is to equate a sick environment with the economy. Politicians need to realize that if the environment is in a bad way, that this will have deleterious effects on the economy. If the air, water, soil are fouled, people will be exposed to the pollutants; people will then be afflicted with chronic illnesses. Chronic illnesses result in more sick time taken, cuts into productivity and costs business more in the way of loss productivity and having to pay for sick time (for those companies that actually pay sick leave). I think this is where we need to go. Thank you.</p><p>
Jim Massa

<p>Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Ray</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/whither-the-environmental-movement/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:35:28 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/whither-the-environmental-movement/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Man and The Environment - Where to go Next</strong></p><p>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;As a species that is growing rampant throughout every habitable piece of land, we must recognize that we are crowding out many other species, and as such, we are destabilizing the ecosystem. &nbsp;We need to get a grip on our own population growth. &nbsp;To act in this issue we need to declare boundaries such that we don't ravage every area. </p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;It is the nature of every living organism to expand its niche until it becomes filled and external factors limit further growth. &nbsp;This usually creates high discomfort at the boundary... starvation, disease... &nbsp; &nbsp;We are so much more adaptable that all other species that we are able to expand our envelope and our numbers into practically every corner of the planet. &nbsp;If left unchecked, we will cram ourselves into these corners until nature limits us, collapsing much of the ecosystem in the process.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Along with our great adaptability should comes broad self-realization and the recognition of a great responsibility we have toward our Global Home and all its species. &nbsp;We need to self-impose limits on our occupation such that we maintain a comfortable balance of nature.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; With this in mind, the first thing we should do is to STOP OUR PHYSICAL EXPANSION. &nbsp;We will otherwise grow right up to the edges anyway, so why not draw the boundary when WE still have control of it? &nbsp;</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; The second thing we should do is LIVE RESPONSIBLY. &nbsp;By that I mean we adjust our lifestyle to maximize the return on consumables while MINIMIZING their consumption. &nbsp;Examples are: Building fuel-efficient cars &amp; trucks, heavily insulating our homes &amp; workplaces, recycling as much as possible...and working to advance the technologies needed to perfect these undertakings.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; The third thing we need to do is actively work to REDUCE OUR POPULATION. &nbsp;By this, I don't mean we should enforce birth control or promote abortion. &nbsp;What we can do, and what has shown to work over &amp; over, is to work to bring all peoples up to a standard of life-awareness and life-expectation of fulfillment that they choose for themselves to limit their children. &nbsp; The "Westernized" Nations demonstrate that this attitude will indeed result in birth rates that don't even make up for the losses.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I have not projected these "negative" birthrates onto a global population, but I will venture to guess that once all Nations reach this state, the population of the World could drop by two thirds in 300 to 600 years. &nbsp;The beauty is that we can achieve the reduction without stepping of our individual freedoms. &nbsp;It is my guess that this planet could comfortably support about 2 billion people indefinitely. &nbsp; There is no need to try to have all of us living at the same time!</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;As Americans we have distorted the notion of "Freedom" to mean an endless pursuit of unbridled CONSUMPTION. &nbsp;Well, the days of the Pioneers are gone. &nbsp;We have covered our land coast to coast. &nbsp;We have long since escaped the persecutions of the homeland. &nbsp; We have wallowed in the newfound riches and lack of bounds. &nbsp; But along the way we have forgotten that freedom also requires responsibility, both to ourselves and to others. &nbsp;We have diverged from a path of physical, intellectual, and spiritual growth and instead find ourselves competing against our neighbor (who really doesn't care) to show off our status with a display of behemoth vehicles parked at massive homes. &nbsp;We gorge ourselves on practically everything edible, without restraint... we are lost but try to hide the fact by persistently searching in the same places. &nbsp; We have become COLLECTORS of wealth but not ENJOYERS. &nbsp; The emptiness of Consumerism is starting to dawn on us, even as we resist.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; It is time for Mankind to take charge of himself and move onto a path that truly leads to fulfillment. &nbsp;We humans are blessed with great mental and physical attributes. &nbsp;We need to use them to redefine our niche such that it comfortably melds with the habitats of all the creatures sharing our planet. &nbsp;<br>


<p>Ray Herrmann</p></br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Man and The Environment - Where to go Next</strong></p><p>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;As a species that is growing rampant throughout every habitable piece of land, we must recognize that we are crowding out many other species, and as such, we are destabilizing the ecosystem. &nbsp;We need to get a grip on our own population growth. &nbsp;To act in this issue we need to declare boundaries such that we don't ravage every area. </p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;It is the nature of every living organism to expand its niche until it becomes filled and external factors limit further growth. &nbsp;This usually creates high discomfort at the boundary... starvation, disease... &nbsp; &nbsp;We are so much more adaptable that all other species that we are able to expand our envelope and our numbers into practically every corner of the planet. &nbsp;If left unchecked, we will cram ourselves into these corners until nature limits us, collapsing much of the ecosystem in the process.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Along with our great adaptability should comes broad self-realization and the recognition of a great responsibility we have toward our Global Home and all its species. &nbsp;We need to self-impose limits on our occupation such that we maintain a comfortable balance of nature.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; With this in mind, the first thing we should do is to STOP OUR PHYSICAL EXPANSION. &nbsp;We will otherwise grow right up to the edges anyway, so why not draw the boundary when WE still have control of it? &nbsp;</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; The second thing we should do is LIVE RESPONSIBLY. &nbsp;By that I mean we adjust our lifestyle to maximize the return on consumables while MINIMIZING their consumption. &nbsp;Examples are: Building fuel-efficient cars &amp; trucks, heavily insulating our homes &amp; workplaces, recycling as much as possible...and working to advance the technologies needed to perfect these undertakings.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; The third thing we need to do is actively work to REDUCE OUR POPULATION. &nbsp;By this, I don't mean we should enforce birth control or promote abortion. &nbsp;What we can do, and what has shown to work over &amp; over, is to work to bring all peoples up to a standard of life-awareness and life-expectation of fulfillment that they choose for themselves to limit their children. &nbsp; The "Westernized" Nations demonstrate that this attitude will indeed result in birth rates that don't even make up for the losses.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; I have not projected these "negative" birthrates onto a global population, but I will venture to guess that once all Nations reach this state, the population of the World could drop by two thirds in 300 to 600 years. &nbsp;The beauty is that we can achieve the reduction without stepping of our individual freedoms. &nbsp;It is my guess that this planet could comfortably support about 2 billion people indefinitely. &nbsp; There is no need to try to have all of us living at the same time!</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;As Americans we have distorted the notion of "Freedom" to mean an endless pursuit of unbridled CONSUMPTION. &nbsp;Well, the days of the Pioneers are gone. &nbsp;We have covered our land coast to coast. &nbsp;We have long since escaped the persecutions of the homeland. &nbsp; We have wallowed in the newfound riches and lack of bounds. &nbsp; But along the way we have forgotten that freedom also requires responsibility, both to ourselves and to others. &nbsp;We have diverged from a path of physical, intellectual, and spiritual growth and instead find ourselves competing against our neighbor (who really doesn't care) to show off our status with a display of behemoth vehicles parked at massive homes. &nbsp;We gorge ourselves on practically everything edible, without restraint... we are lost but try to hide the fact by persistently searching in the same places. &nbsp; We have become COLLECTORS of wealth but not ENJOYERS. &nbsp; The emptiness of Consumerism is starting to dawn on us, even as we resist.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; It is time for Mankind to take charge of himself and move onto a path that truly leads to fulfillment. &nbsp;We humans are blessed with great mental and physical attributes. &nbsp;We need to use them to redefine our niche such that it comfortably melds with the habitats of all the creatures sharing our planet. &nbsp;<br>


<p>Ray Herrmann</p></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Carefree Lynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/whither-the-environmental-movement/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:15:41 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/whither-the-environmental-movement/3</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>I agree.  We need a new vocabulary.</strong></p><p>The way to reach this administration and Congress is to link environmental concerns to economic impacts and opportunities. &nbsp;We need to stop hoping that through persistence we can make them see the inherent importance of bio-diversity, pristine wilderness or clean air and water. &nbsp;Instead, we need to communicate in terms they already understand.</p><p>
This will mean building arguments that center around economic value and cost. &nbsp;It will mean building business cases for environmental change that are expressed in dollars and cents.</p><p>
I've started to give my letters this kind of economic slant, but am not finding much on the web to help me include specific dollar amounts on any given issue. &nbsp;Does anyone know a good source for environmental studies that address economic impacts?</p>
			]]></description>
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				<p><strong>I agree.  We need a new vocabulary.</strong></p><p>The way to reach this administration and Congress is to link environmental concerns to economic impacts and opportunities. &nbsp;We need to stop hoping that through persistence we can make them see the inherent importance of bio-diversity, pristine wilderness or clean air and water. &nbsp;Instead, we need to communicate in terms they already understand.</p><p>
This will mean building arguments that center around economic value and cost. &nbsp;It will mean building business cases for environmental change that are expressed in dollars and cents.</p><p>
I've started to give my letters this kind of economic slant, but am not finding much on the web to help me include specific dollar amounts on any given issue. &nbsp;Does anyone know a good source for environmental studies that address economic impacts?</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by nick</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/whither-the-environmental-movement/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:56:11 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/whither-the-environmental-movement/4</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Envirolink<p>You might try <a href="http://www.envirolink.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.envirolink.org</a></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
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				<p><strong>Envirolink<p>You might try <a href="http://www.envirolink.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.envirolink.org</a></p></strong></p>
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