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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Learning from the gas tax episode, Obama could treat rural whites like adults]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by TariffDude</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 05:48:06 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>typo?</strong></p><p>6th paragraph, coal tax = gas tax?</p>
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				<p><strong>typo?</strong></p><p>6th paragraph, coal tax = gas tax?</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 06:09:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>No Clinton No Votes<p><br>
With Clinton out of the race, the number of voters coming to the Democratic polls would probably have dwindled by two-thirds.<p>
Obama's "coalition" is based on...what? &nbsp; A bunch of 20 year old people living in Portland, Oregon who never finished their senior year at Reed College?<br>


<p><a href="http://texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Texeme.Construct(Participant)</a></p></br></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>No Clinton No Votes<p><br>
With Clinton out of the race, the number of voters coming to the Democratic polls would probably have dwindled by two-thirds.<p>
Obama's "coalition" is based on...what? &nbsp; A bunch of 20 year old people living in Portland, Oregon who never finished their senior year at Reed College?<br>


<p><a href="http://texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Texeme.Construct(Participant)</a></p></br></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by David Roberts</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 06:37:14 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Thanks TarriffDude</strong></p><p>Fixed.

<p>grist.org</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Thanks TarriffDude</strong></p><p>Fixed.

<p>grist.org</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by green8659</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 06:50:14 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>One Option<p>One option would be to try to come up with a way to build alternative jobs for these coal miners. &nbsp;Coal is limited he needs to have a solid alternative to set their minds at ease and maybe he will have a chance.

<p><a href="http://www.greenacy.org" rel="nofollow">Green and Environmental Website | <a href="http://www.naturesbargain.com" rel="nofollow">Almighty Cleanse</a></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>One Option<p>One option would be to try to come up with a way to build alternative jobs for these coal miners. &nbsp;Coal is limited he needs to have a solid alternative to set their minds at ease and maybe he will have a chance.

<p><a href="http://www.greenacy.org" rel="nofollow">Green and Environmental Website | <a href="http://www.naturesbargain.com" rel="nofollow">Almighty Cleanse</a></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by PearlFizzberry</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 07:08:09 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Masters of  War</strong></p><p>What they should have done BEFORE now is treat this issue as seriously as it is. &nbsp;People in West Virginia and Kentucky know the times are changing, recognize the gravity, and naturally are anxious about it. &nbsp;This is not a peripheral, side-bar issue. &nbsp;It features the constellation of social, labor, and enviromental issues that must be addressed. &nbsp;Tossing in a vague mixed message about coal's future is ridiculous when the constituents are painfully aware they live at ground zero. &nbsp;Between MTR and lack of jobs, West Virginians are weary of sacrificing for the rest of the country and consistently, historically, being viewed as an afterthought. &nbsp;Politicians have been no friend to the persons of WV(a friend of coal, yes).</p><p>
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				<p><strong>Masters of  War</strong></p><p>What they should have done BEFORE now is treat this issue as seriously as it is. &nbsp;People in West Virginia and Kentucky know the times are changing, recognize the gravity, and naturally are anxious about it. &nbsp;This is not a peripheral, side-bar issue. &nbsp;It features the constellation of social, labor, and enviromental issues that must be addressed. &nbsp;Tossing in a vague mixed message about coal's future is ridiculous when the constituents are painfully aware they live at ground zero. &nbsp;Between MTR and lack of jobs, West Virginians are weary of sacrificing for the rest of the country and consistently, historically, being viewed as an afterthought. &nbsp;Politicians have been no friend to the persons of WV(a friend of coal, yes).</p><p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by mogmaar</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 10:28:57 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>&quot;green jobs&quot;</strong></p><p>In "that means "green jobs," but more than just that. It means stimulating the development of other industries and revenue sources by spending on infrastructure, education, public works programs, and a decent social safety net." you imply that green jobs are just one small part of an economic and energy transformation. &nbsp;You're correct that what's needed is a vision for investment, infrastructure and revitalization in all areas of life. &nbsp;</p><p>
What struck me is that 'green jobs' seems to try and encompass all those things and really be a vision for a rising tide that lifts all boats, and the lowest boats first. &nbsp;If the idea of green jobs is just a footnote as part of some larger vision for the transformation we're talking about, then we need to work hard to give that vision a name that we don't need to put in quotation marks and we can talk about to the people of WV and KY.</p>
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				<p><strong>&quot;green jobs&quot;</strong></p><p>In "that means "green jobs," but more than just that. It means stimulating the development of other industries and revenue sources by spending on infrastructure, education, public works programs, and a decent social safety net." you imply that green jobs are just one small part of an economic and energy transformation. &nbsp;You're correct that what's needed is a vision for investment, infrastructure and revitalization in all areas of life. &nbsp;</p><p>
What struck me is that 'green jobs' seems to try and encompass all those things and really be a vision for a rising tide that lifts all boats, and the lowest boats first. &nbsp;If the idea of green jobs is just a footnote as part of some larger vision for the transformation we're talking about, then we need to work hard to give that vision a name that we don't need to put in quotation marks and we can talk about to the people of WV and KY.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Jason D Scorse</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 14:28:22 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>nice post david<p>I think you hit all the right notes and put forth exactly the type of message Obama should deliver.<p>
Message to Jabailo: How about a little wager- if Obama beats grandpa McSame you stop posting your inane second-grade comments on Grist. If McSame wins you get to tell us why a Republican has been duped into believing in global warming. Deal?

<p>I teach environmental economics and blog at <a href="http://www.voicesofreason.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.voicesofreason.info.</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>nice post david<p>I think you hit all the right notes and put forth exactly the type of message Obama should deliver.<p>
Message to Jabailo: How about a little wager- if Obama beats grandpa McSame you stop posting your inane second-grade comments on Grist. If McSame wins you get to tell us why a Republican has been duped into believing in global warming. Deal?

<p>I teach environmental economics and blog at <a href="http://www.voicesofreason.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.voicesofreason.info.</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Creed</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 14:48:51 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Coal, Miners, and West Virginia<p>Hi Folks,<p>
I am a web designer who lives in north central West Virginia, in the heart of the Appalachian coalfields. <p>
Recently, I had two opportunities to tour an underground coal mine.<p>
Both times, our group descended 1000 feet into the ancient mountain, and then traveled through the mine to the face of the longwall. There we saw the cutting of the coal, which began it's &nbsp;formation in a primeval swamp, some 250 million years ago; deposited before the dinosaurs existed. It was very amazing and inspirational, too.<p>
Perhaps someone may be interested in knowing a bit about the people who work in the mines and our cause concerning them.<p>
Miner's Day Web Site<br>
<a href="http://www.minersday.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.minersday.org/<p>
Petition for a Commemorative National Miner's Day<br>
<a href="http://www.rallycongress.com/minersdaymemorialassociationofwestvirginia/951/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rallycongress.com/minersdaymemorialassociation ...<p>
Miners and their families have made vast contributions over the centuries, &nbsp;please be considerate as you plan the demise of coal. It'll be providing 50% of your electricity as you're doing it :-)<p>
~ Creed</p></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Coal, Miners, and West Virginia<p>Hi Folks,<p>
I am a web designer who lives in north central West Virginia, in the heart of the Appalachian coalfields. <p>
Recently, I had two opportunities to tour an underground coal mine.<p>
Both times, our group descended 1000 feet into the ancient mountain, and then traveled through the mine to the face of the longwall. There we saw the cutting of the coal, which began it's &nbsp;formation in a primeval swamp, some 250 million years ago; deposited before the dinosaurs existed. It was very amazing and inspirational, too.<p>
Perhaps someone may be interested in knowing a bit about the people who work in the mines and our cause concerning them.<p>
Miner's Day Web Site<br>
<a href="http://www.minersday.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.minersday.org/<p>
Petition for a Commemorative National Miner's Day<br>
<a href="http://www.rallycongress.com/minersdaymemorialassociationofwestvirginia/951/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rallycongress.com/minersdaymemorialassociation ...<p>
Miners and their families have made vast contributions over the centuries, &nbsp;please be considerate as you plan the demise of coal. It'll be providing 50% of your electricity as you're doing it :-)<p>
~ Creed</p></p></a></br></p></a></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by johnmcc793</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 22:57:37 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Lay off Sen. Clinton</strong></p><p>Dave, you tend to run on a bit longer than your message requires. &nbsp;Senator Clinton may not be all things to all people but she has been a good and hard-working Senator and poltician. &nbsp;The baggage she carries is not all of her doing.</p><p>
Cut her a bit of slack. &nbsp;She earned that much!</p><p>
John McCormick</p>
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				<p><strong>Lay off Sen. Clinton</strong></p><p>Dave, you tend to run on a bit longer than your message requires. &nbsp;Senator Clinton may not be all things to all people but she has been a good and hard-working Senator and poltician. &nbsp;The baggage she carries is not all of her doing.</p><p>
Cut her a bit of slack. &nbsp;She earned that much!</p><p>
John McCormick</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 23:34:48 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Yep</strong></p><p>Now that Barack looks like a sure winner, why not give the Clinton bashing a break? &nbsp;Time to make peace and get Hillary for VP. &nbsp;If possible.</p><p>
Coal unemployment problems could be solved with natural gas development in coal country, hiring local miners into the gas drilling industry.</p><p>
There is a lot of gas in the coal already, using natural bacteria to increae the conversion of coal to gas. &nbsp;That's a real clean coal technology. &nbsp;And good jobs providing clean energy for miners. &nbsp;They already operate heavy drilling equipment in mining.</p><p>
They can adapt. &nbsp;Government ought to help with retraining funding. &nbsp;That's a plan miners and businesses in coal country could back as well as environmentalists. &nbsp;A lot of the methane from mines is escaping now, causing a huge GHG problem. &nbsp;As much of it as possible should be used for clean energy.</p><p>
Barack ought to campaign on that, and energy conservation and renewable energy for local homes, schools, and buildings.</p><p>
Along with a big switch to geo heat exchange heating replacing the use of natural gas in heating buildings, the increased gas supply from coal could make it a viable replacement for diesel powered trucks and trains. &nbsp;Natural gas runs fine in diesel engines.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Yep</strong></p><p>Now that Barack looks like a sure winner, why not give the Clinton bashing a break? &nbsp;Time to make peace and get Hillary for VP. &nbsp;If possible.</p><p>
Coal unemployment problems could be solved with natural gas development in coal country, hiring local miners into the gas drilling industry.</p><p>
There is a lot of gas in the coal already, using natural bacteria to increae the conversion of coal to gas. &nbsp;That's a real clean coal technology. &nbsp;And good jobs providing clean energy for miners. &nbsp;They already operate heavy drilling equipment in mining.</p><p>
They can adapt. &nbsp;Government ought to help with retraining funding. &nbsp;That's a plan miners and businesses in coal country could back as well as environmentalists. &nbsp;A lot of the methane from mines is escaping now, causing a huge GHG problem. &nbsp;As much of it as possible should be used for clean energy.</p><p>
Barack ought to campaign on that, and energy conservation and renewable energy for local homes, schools, and buildings.</p><p>
Along with a big switch to geo heat exchange heating replacing the use of natural gas in heating buildings, the increased gas supply from coal could make it a viable replacement for diesel powered trucks and trains. &nbsp;Natural gas runs fine in diesel engines.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by Erik Hoffner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 05:10:35 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Alliance for Appalachia<p>Yes, green8659, alternative livelihood development is needed. Some of the major groups involved in fighting mountaintop removal formed the Alliance for Appalachia to do just that. Renewable energy, tourism, are initial targets.<p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.orionsociety.org/ogn" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: 1,200+ grassroots groups working for conservation &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Alliance for Appalachia<p>Yes, green8659, alternative livelihood development is needed. Some of the major groups involved in fighting mountaintop removal formed the Alliance for Appalachia to do just that. Renewable energy, tourism, are initial targets.<p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.orionsociety.org/ogn" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: 1,200+ grassroots groups working for conservation &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by Pence</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 07:36:07 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Obama to voters in Ky and WV</strong></p><p>Being a KY resident, I am firmly convinced that Obama knows he doesn't have any chance to win KY or WV in November, whereas Hillary would most likely win both states in a general election against McCain as they voted Democratic both times Bill Clinton won the White House; therefore Obama is most likely to ignore KY and WV in the primary and general election...and unfortunately, if he does win the White House in 2008, he will most likely do nothing to help the people living in either state during his four or eight year presidency. &nbsp;If Hillary Clinton doesn't win the nomination, moderate to conservative &nbsp;middle class Americans, whether Democrat or Republican, will have no one fighting for them in Washington. &nbsp;Unfortunately, the Democratic Party abandoned moderate and conservative Americans long before Ronald Reagan, starting with the George McGovern nomination in 1972. &nbsp;The only Democratic presidential nominee since 1972 to even bothering to appeal to the moderate middle class was Bill Clinton, and his own Democratic Party abandoned him abandoned him during his two terms in office. Anything Obama says to voters in KY and WV will have no effect, because he doesn't identify with our needs.</p>
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				<p><strong>Obama to voters in Ky and WV</strong></p><p>Being a KY resident, I am firmly convinced that Obama knows he doesn't have any chance to win KY or WV in November, whereas Hillary would most likely win both states in a general election against McCain as they voted Democratic both times Bill Clinton won the White House; therefore Obama is most likely to ignore KY and WV in the primary and general election...and unfortunately, if he does win the White House in 2008, he will most likely do nothing to help the people living in either state during his four or eight year presidency. &nbsp;If Hillary Clinton doesn't win the nomination, moderate to conservative &nbsp;middle class Americans, whether Democrat or Republican, will have no one fighting for them in Washington. &nbsp;Unfortunately, the Democratic Party abandoned moderate and conservative Americans long before Ronald Reagan, starting with the George McGovern nomination in 1972. &nbsp;The only Democratic presidential nominee since 1972 to even bothering to appeal to the moderate middle class was Bill Clinton, and his own Democratic Party abandoned him abandoned him during his two terms in office. Anything Obama says to voters in KY and WV will have no effect, because he doesn't identify with our needs.</p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by mwildfire</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-should-obama-do-in-west-virginia-and-kentucky/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 23:31:21 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>I  just voted</strong></p><p>for Obama, and whoever ran against Rockefeller, that traitor to the Constitution.<br>
I get pretty angry at the way the MSM portrays the coal issue here--neglecting to mention what should have been obvious at the Obama rally a month ago, that the coal issue is contentious here, with plenty of passion on BOTH sides. &nbsp;There are only 16,000 coal miners in WV now, and only 5500 of them are strip miners. Longwall mining is less destructive than mountaintop removal mining, but it still destroys water sources and homes it passes under. I agree that Obama blew an opportunity to reach out here with an honest message, centering on a "just transition" plank of renewable energy production jobs earmarked for former miners. But I don't think it's because he "doesn't care about the working class"--I think it's because his campaign's calculations showed he can only risk alienating so much of the Big Money interests. I support him largely on the forlorn hope that he'll turn out to be more than what he claims--that once he's in office he'll be in a position to challenge the corporations more directly. With Clinton or McCain we clearly get Business as Usual, and we CANNOT tolerate more of that--literally are unlikely even to survive it. The way Clintons have run her campaign is utterly contemptible.</br></p>
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				<p><strong>I  just voted</strong></p><p>for Obama, and whoever ran against Rockefeller, that traitor to the Constitution.<br>
I get pretty angry at the way the MSM portrays the coal issue here--neglecting to mention what should have been obvious at the Obama rally a month ago, that the coal issue is contentious here, with plenty of passion on BOTH sides. &nbsp;There are only 16,000 coal miners in WV now, and only 5500 of them are strip miners. Longwall mining is less destructive than mountaintop removal mining, but it still destroys water sources and homes it passes under. I agree that Obama blew an opportunity to reach out here with an honest message, centering on a "just transition" plank of renewable energy production jobs earmarked for former miners. But I don't think it's because he "doesn't care about the working class"--I think it's because his campaign's calculations showed he can only risk alienating so much of the Big Money interests. I support him largely on the forlorn hope that he'll turn out to be more than what he claims--that once he's in office he'll be in a position to challenge the corporations more directly. With Clinton or McCain we clearly get Business as Usual, and we CANNOT tolerate more of that--literally are unlikely even to survive it. The way Clintons have run her campaign is utterly contemptible.</br></p>
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