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            <title>Comment #1 by BruceMcF</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 06:25:16 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Broadening the Coalition ...<p>Of course, it is possible to cycle on the road ... but even cyclists who get over the mostly psychological hurdle of cycling on a 35mph street, and learn how to cycle as safely as possible with cars (which, on a 35mph street, is a lot safer than the sidewalk or a bike lane painted onto the side of the road) ... will balk at cycling on the 60mph highway.<p>
However, there is another class of potential road users that, unlike bikes, are legally required to stick to 35mph or slower roads ... owners of Neighborhood Electric Vehicles.<p>
Now, these are rarer than hens teeth now, in most parts of the country, but if gasoline prices spike, don't be surprised to see them start popping up.<p>
And if they do, cyclists should grab the opportunity to make common cause with them for a usable grid of 35mph "share the road" streets.<br>


<p>Virtually Yours, BruceMcF
<a href="http://www.ea2020.org" rel="nofollow">Energize America 2020

</a></p></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Broadening the Coalition ...<p>Of course, it is possible to cycle on the road ... but even cyclists who get over the mostly psychological hurdle of cycling on a 35mph street, and learn how to cycle as safely as possible with cars (which, on a 35mph street, is a lot safer than the sidewalk or a bike lane painted onto the side of the road) ... will balk at cycling on the 60mph highway.<p>
However, there is another class of potential road users that, unlike bikes, are legally required to stick to 35mph or slower roads ... owners of Neighborhood Electric Vehicles.<p>
Now, these are rarer than hens teeth now, in most parts of the country, but if gasoline prices spike, don't be surprised to see them start popping up.<p>
And if they do, cyclists should grab the opportunity to make common cause with them for a usable grid of 35mph "share the road" streets.<br>


<p>Virtually Yours, BruceMcF
<a href="http://www.ea2020.org" rel="nofollow">Energize America 2020

</a></p></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 08:10:46 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>I Wish<p><br>
When I was thirteen my friends and I used to ride our bikes on the shoulder of Southern State Parkway (!) and dodge cars on the Sunrise Highway get out from Queens to Long Island.<p>
That was crazy stuff -- but I guess we were fearless....

<p>John Bailo, The "Denier Guy"<br>
<a href="http://you-read-it-here-first.com" rel="nofollow">You Read It Here First</a></br></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>I Wish<p><br>
When I was thirteen my friends and I used to ride our bikes on the shoulder of Southern State Parkway (!) and dodge cars on the Sunrise Highway get out from Queens to Long Island.<p>
That was crazy stuff -- but I guess we were fearless....

<p>John Bailo, The "Denier Guy"<br>
<a href="http://you-read-it-here-first.com" rel="nofollow">You Read It Here First</a></br></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 14:11:10 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Wimpy cars.<p>However, there is another class of potential road users that, unlike bikes, are legally required to stick to 35mph or slower roads ... owners of Neighborhood Electric Vehicles.<p>
Now, these are rarer than hens teeth now, in most parts of the country, but if gasoline prices spike, don't be surprised to see them start popping up.<p>
Why would anyone want to drive a wimpy electric car when they could drive legit electric car.<p>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/electriccars.png" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/electriccars.png<br>
<a href="http://greyflcn.blogspot.com/2007/04/affordable-electric-car.html" rel="nofollow">http://greyflcn.blogspot.com/2007/04/affordable-electric- ...<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/tesla" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/tesla<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/truck" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/truck<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/zap" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/zap</a></br></a></br></a></br></a></br></a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Wimpy cars.<p>However, there is another class of potential road users that, unlike bikes, are legally required to stick to 35mph or slower roads ... owners of Neighborhood Electric Vehicles.<p>
Now, these are rarer than hens teeth now, in most parts of the country, but if gasoline prices spike, don't be surprised to see them start popping up.<p>
Why would anyone want to drive a wimpy electric car when they could drive legit electric car.<p>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/electriccars.png" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/electriccars.png<br>
<a href="http://greyflcn.blogspot.com/2007/04/affordable-electric-car.html" rel="nofollow">http://greyflcn.blogspot.com/2007/04/affordable-electric- ...<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/tesla" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/tesla<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/truck" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/truck<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/zap" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/zap</a></br></a></br></a></br></a></br></a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by BruceMcF</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 00:31:15 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Why would anyone want to drive ...<p>... a wimpy bicycle when they can drive an macho, muscular SUV?<p>
Typically because the wimpy NEV's are more affordable ... indeed, there are a few retirement oriented cities in the US where golf cart paths have been put in place to allow getting from one place to another, and they are even wimpier than NEV's.<p>
When gas prices get into the $5-$10 range, we will see far more people wanting to drive wimpy cars of all sorts as opposed to gas guzzling SUV's.<p>
And remember that the cost of a used highway speed EV past a certain vintage will be higher than the cost of a used gasoline power car of the same vintage, even when they become available, because of the battery replacement cost.<p>
However, the main enabling factor for NEV's is development of energy efficient longer distance travel, such as electric trains. See <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/5/16/175645/733" rel="nofollow"> High Speed Rail: The Recruiters for more.

<p>Virtually Yours, BruceMcF
<a href="http://www.ea2020.org" rel="nofollow">Energize America 2020

</a></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Why would anyone want to drive ...<p>... a wimpy bicycle when they can drive an macho, muscular SUV?<p>
Typically because the wimpy NEV's are more affordable ... indeed, there are a few retirement oriented cities in the US where golf cart paths have been put in place to allow getting from one place to another, and they are even wimpier than NEV's.<p>
When gas prices get into the $5-$10 range, we will see far more people wanting to drive wimpy cars of all sorts as opposed to gas guzzling SUV's.<p>
And remember that the cost of a used highway speed EV past a certain vintage will be higher than the cost of a used gasoline power car of the same vintage, even when they become available, because of the battery replacement cost.<p>
However, the main enabling factor for NEV's is development of energy efficient longer distance travel, such as electric trains. See <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/5/16/175645/733" rel="nofollow"> High Speed Rail: The Recruiters for more.

<p>Virtually Yours, BruceMcF
<a href="http://www.ea2020.org" rel="nofollow">Energize America 2020

</a></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 00:48:11 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Battery costs get cheaper<p>The cost of a used highway speed EV past a certain vintage will be higher than the cost of a used gasoline power car of the same vintage, even when they become available, <p>
<strong>because of the battery replacement cost.<p>
Current battery technology allows them to operate for over 40 years.<br>
<a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/07/autobloggreen-qanda-altairnano-ceo-alan-gotcher/" rel="nofollow">http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/07/autobloggreen-qan ...<p>
The car would fall apart before the battery would need to be replaced.<p>
And by the time you would need to replace less advanced battery packs (say 10 years), the replacement cost of those batteries would be relatively tiny. Since economies of scale would have dramatically reduced the price.<p>
And considering the near lack maintainence needed for an electric car, all you would need to do is pop in another Duracell, and be on your way.</p></p></p></a></br></p></strong></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Battery costs get cheaper<p>The cost of a used highway speed EV past a certain vintage will be higher than the cost of a used gasoline power car of the same vintage, even when they become available, <p>
<strong>because of the battery replacement cost.<p>
Current battery technology allows them to operate for over 40 years.<br>
<a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/07/autobloggreen-qanda-altairnano-ceo-alan-gotcher/" rel="nofollow">http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/07/autobloggreen-qan ...<p>
The car would fall apart before the battery would need to be replaced.<p>
And by the time you would need to replace less advanced battery packs (say 10 years), the replacement cost of those batteries would be relatively tiny. Since economies of scale would have dramatically reduced the price.<p>
And considering the near lack maintainence needed for an electric car, all you would need to do is pop in another Duracell, and be on your way.</p></p></p></a></br></p></strong></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 03:51:22 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>&quot;Cascadia&quot;?</strong></p><p>Well, if Grist wants to pretend to be a hometown paper, sure, why not.</p><p>
Meanwhile, the sociology of biking here on the island Manhattan ("Smoke on your pipe and put that in!") deserves serious study. &nbsp;Mostly we observe that the people who ride bikes amidst fast-moving traffic are young men who do not quite get it that everyone else believes their lives are not worth much: messengers, and delivery people, the latter especially being immigrants from China and Latin America.</p><p>
But in fact, there is no reason why the numerous residents of uptown neighborhoods who commute to work daily in midtown offices could not be encouraged more sincerely and enthusiastically to do the commute on bicycle.</p><p>
And of course there is every reason to make the lives of messengers and delivery people easier. &nbsp;They thrive, economically, in fact, because vehicle traffic is so impossibly tangled.</p><p>
On another matter: Copenhagen and Amsterdam may be swell places, but they are hardly the only cities in Europe in which bike-riding is commonplace. &nbsp;As I wrote on another thread, there are numerous places in southern Europe where bike-riding is a frequent and normal method of transportation.</p><p>
Copenhagen and Amsterdam may indeed have the most admirable bike-friendly traffic laws thus far. &nbsp;And it makes sense for all you guys in the small to medium-sized cities of "Cascadia" to pay attention and learn. &nbsp;But we in NYC need to study how the bike-rental program in Paris works out.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!</p></p>
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				<p><strong>&quot;Cascadia&quot;?</strong></p><p>Well, if Grist wants to pretend to be a hometown paper, sure, why not.</p><p>
Meanwhile, the sociology of biking here on the island Manhattan ("Smoke on your pipe and put that in!") deserves serious study. &nbsp;Mostly we observe that the people who ride bikes amidst fast-moving traffic are young men who do not quite get it that everyone else believes their lives are not worth much: messengers, and delivery people, the latter especially being immigrants from China and Latin America.</p><p>
But in fact, there is no reason why the numerous residents of uptown neighborhoods who commute to work daily in midtown offices could not be encouraged more sincerely and enthusiastically to do the commute on bicycle.</p><p>
And of course there is every reason to make the lives of messengers and delivery people easier. &nbsp;They thrive, economically, in fact, because vehicle traffic is so impossibly tangled.</p><p>
On another matter: Copenhagen and Amsterdam may be swell places, but they are hardly the only cities in Europe in which bike-riding is commonplace. &nbsp;As I wrote on another thread, there are numerous places in southern Europe where bike-riding is a frequent and normal method of transportation.</p><p>
Copenhagen and Amsterdam may indeed have the most admirable bike-friendly traffic laws thus far. &nbsp;And it makes sense for all you guys in the small to medium-sized cities of "Cascadia" to pay attention and learn. &nbsp;But we in NYC need to study how the bike-rental program in Paris works out.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!
So are other sensitive animals!
Enough is enough!
No more factory farms!</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by BruceMcF</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 06:41:38 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Note that the article says 12 to 15 years ...<p>The batteries have tremendous life, estimated to be in the range of 12 to 15 years, or about the design life of the vehicle.<p>
12 to 15 years is about the vintage of car that my son has been buying.<p>
And we cannot rely on massive economies of scale to apply equally to all technologies ... there will certainly be learning curve economies, both in the production itself and in the supply chain, but battery production is not the kind of activity that has the massive economies of scale of, say, steelmaking or petroleum refining.<p>
A NEV is, like any neighborhood vehicle (the Federal Highway Safety Administration makes no reference to source of drive power in the neighborhood vehicle definition) cheaper all around ... cheaper in the body, cheaper in the drive train, and cheaper to run. That's true whether the neighborhood vehicle is electric, gas or diesel. The battery cost is just a cost element that tends to stand out with EV's.<br>


<p>Virtually Yours, BruceMcF
<a href="http://www.ea2020.org" rel="nofollow">Energize America 2020

</a></p></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Note that the article says 12 to 15 years ...<p>The batteries have tremendous life, estimated to be in the range of 12 to 15 years, or about the design life of the vehicle.<p>
12 to 15 years is about the vintage of car that my son has been buying.<p>
And we cannot rely on massive economies of scale to apply equally to all technologies ... there will certainly be learning curve economies, both in the production itself and in the supply chain, but battery production is not the kind of activity that has the massive economies of scale of, say, steelmaking or petroleum refining.<p>
A NEV is, like any neighborhood vehicle (the Federal Highway Safety Administration makes no reference to source of drive power in the neighborhood vehicle definition) cheaper all around ... cheaper in the body, cheaper in the drive train, and cheaper to run. That's true whether the neighborhood vehicle is electric, gas or diesel. The battery cost is just a cost element that tends to stand out with EV's.<br>


<p>Virtually Yours, BruceMcF
<a href="http://www.ea2020.org" rel="nofollow">Energize America 2020

</a></p></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 12:26:39 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Batteries, scale up</strong></p><p>battery production is not the kind of activity that has the massive economies of scale of, say, steelmaking or petroleum refining.</p><p>
Sure it is.<br>
Lead Acid and Alkaline Batteries are huge.</p><p>
Big thing with batteries is that they are capital intensive. &nbsp;However once you have your facility, practically the whole production process is automated.</p><p>
Batteries historically scale really well with economies of scale.</p><p>
Same way you can now fit a businesscard calculator in your wallet that is more sophistocated than the computers that used to take up whole buildings.</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Batteries, scale up</strong></p><p>battery production is not the kind of activity that has the massive economies of scale of, say, steelmaking or petroleum refining.</p><p>
Sure it is.<br>
Lead Acid and Alkaline Batteries are huge.</p><p>
Big thing with batteries is that they are capital intensive. &nbsp;However once you have your facility, practically the whole production process is automated.</p><p>
Batteries historically scale really well with economies of scale.</p><p>
Same way you can now fit a businesscard calculator in your wallet that is more sophistocated than the computers that used to take up whole buildings.</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Green Granny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 19:42:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Cultural Geography</strong></p><p>Gas prices, fuel availability, improvements in urban public transit, the construction of bike &amp; pedestrian friendly roads, a cultural shift in attitude toward cars all may make driving less appealing to large numbers of people. &nbsp;But appealing or not, the logistics of driving less in the US are difficult at best. The success of European public transportation has much to do with the pattern of settlement. &nbsp;</p><p>
Relatively few Europeans live 15 to 50 miles from their place of employment. A 40 minute commute to work is common (if not the norm) in much of the US. &nbsp;In Europe, the most desirable neighborhoods tend to be the closest to city centers. &nbsp;Its the opposite here. &nbsp;Suburban commuter services -- park and ride bus and trains -- add significantly to commute time. &nbsp;Few people are willing to add 20 minutes each way to work. &nbsp;Furthermore, many employers require schedule flexibility (staying late, coming in early, etc) that commuter services cannot easily accomodate.</p><p>
Moving back to the city is no solution for many. Places of employment have increasingly moved away from the cities. &nbsp;Corn fields have sprouted lots of "industrial parks" next to major highways outside cities in the Midwest in the last few decades. &nbsp;The best paying jobs (white and blue collar) have moved, and now everybody must commute -- not just those in the suburbs.</p><p>
Improving urban transportation is nice, and changing public attitudes toward private vehicles is wonderful, but our culture and supporting infrastructure, housing patterns, and manufacturing centers are thoroughly based on the culture of cars. &nbsp; 

<p>"We must be the change we wish to see in the world."  -- Mahatma Ghandi</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Cultural Geography</strong></p><p>Gas prices, fuel availability, improvements in urban public transit, the construction of bike &amp; pedestrian friendly roads, a cultural shift in attitude toward cars all may make driving less appealing to large numbers of people. &nbsp;But appealing or not, the logistics of driving less in the US are difficult at best. The success of European public transportation has much to do with the pattern of settlement. &nbsp;</p><p>
Relatively few Europeans live 15 to 50 miles from their place of employment. A 40 minute commute to work is common (if not the norm) in much of the US. &nbsp;In Europe, the most desirable neighborhoods tend to be the closest to city centers. &nbsp;Its the opposite here. &nbsp;Suburban commuter services -- park and ride bus and trains -- add significantly to commute time. &nbsp;Few people are willing to add 20 minutes each way to work. &nbsp;Furthermore, many employers require schedule flexibility (staying late, coming in early, etc) that commuter services cannot easily accomodate.</p><p>
Moving back to the city is no solution for many. Places of employment have increasingly moved away from the cities. &nbsp;Corn fields have sprouted lots of "industrial parks" next to major highways outside cities in the Midwest in the last few decades. &nbsp;The best paying jobs (white and blue collar) have moved, and now everybody must commute -- not just those in the suburbs.</p><p>
Improving urban transportation is nice, and changing public attitudes toward private vehicles is wonderful, but our culture and supporting infrastructure, housing patterns, and manufacturing centers are thoroughly based on the culture of cars. &nbsp; 

<p>"We must be the change we wish to see in the world."  -- Mahatma Ghandi</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 01:14:31 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Safety<p>I bike, but to be perfectly honest, it is inherently risky if you ride in close proximity with cars. Back roads and bike trails are pretty safe but if your commute takes you into traffic, your odds of an accident go way up. Rock climbers will also categorically tell you that their sport is safe. There are things you can do to enhance safety, but it is just inherently unsafe to mix it up with cars.<p>
I don't want to talk people onto bikes with a false sense of security. If they are afraid to ride in traffic, they probably shouldn't ride in traffic. That is why we need more trails.<p>
We also need the city to step up and put bikers on a pedestal with laws skewed to protect the ones at risk (bikers) like some countries have. <br>


<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Safety<p>I bike, but to be perfectly honest, it is inherently risky if you ride in close proximity with cars. Back roads and bike trails are pretty safe but if your commute takes you into traffic, your odds of an accident go way up. Rock climbers will also categorically tell you that their sport is safe. There are things you can do to enhance safety, but it is just inherently unsafe to mix it up with cars.<p>
I don't want to talk people onto bikes with a false sense of security. If they are afraid to ride in traffic, they probably shouldn't ride in traffic. That is why we need more trails.<p>
We also need the city to step up and put bikers on a pedestal with laws skewed to protect the ones at risk (bikers) like some countries have. <br>


<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by willa</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 02:37:10 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>think before you bike</strong></p><p>This may not be the most appropriate one of the recent bike-related threads to put this on, but I would like to point out that the dangers bicyclists face are in part self-inflicted. &nbsp;That is, bicyclists are often complete and total jerks, riding in such a way that cars can't get past on narrow, windy roads for miles on end, riding on sidewalks because it's safer for them with no regard for pedestrians' safety, etc. &nbsp;And I recently had a conversation with some horse-y friends (that is, friends who are into horses, not friends who are horses :) ) in which every last one of them agreed that bicyclists are unapologetic about behavior that's not just rude but potentially deadly, whizzing past horses even when asked to slow down, etc.</p><p>
We should still have more bike paths, clearly, but in the meantime, if you ride a bike, don't act like a complete asshat, 'k?</p>
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				<p><strong>think before you bike</strong></p><p>This may not be the most appropriate one of the recent bike-related threads to put this on, but I would like to point out that the dangers bicyclists face are in part self-inflicted. &nbsp;That is, bicyclists are often complete and total jerks, riding in such a way that cars can't get past on narrow, windy roads for miles on end, riding on sidewalks because it's safer for them with no regard for pedestrians' safety, etc. &nbsp;And I recently had a conversation with some horse-y friends (that is, friends who are into horses, not friends who are horses :) ) in which every last one of them agreed that bicyclists are unapologetic about behavior that's not just rude but potentially deadly, whizzing past horses even when asked to slow down, etc.</p><p>
We should still have more bike paths, clearly, but in the meantime, if you ride a bike, don't act like a complete asshat, 'k?</p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 02:50:39 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>True.  People can be real asshats<p>no matter how they get about. I watched the most incredible thing a week ago. A lady was walking along at a steady fast pace and came to a painted cross walk. She didn't slow down and walked right out in front of a car that managed to stop without much trouble, but the car in the next lane hit the brakes so hard a big cloud of smoke rolled off all four tires. Now the interesting part was that this lady didn't slow down, look left or right, or blink an eye as far as I could tell as she headed off across the next two lanes and up the road.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>True.  People can be real asshats<p>no matter how they get about. I watched the most incredible thing a week ago. A lady was walking along at a steady fast pace and came to a painted cross walk. She didn't slow down and walked right out in front of a car that managed to stop without much trouble, but the car in the next lane hit the brakes so hard a big cloud of smoke rolled off all four tires. Now the interesting part was that this lady didn't slow down, look left or right, or blink an eye as far as I could tell as she headed off across the next two lanes and up the road.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by Zeth</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 03:00:26 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>The mutual contract</strong></p><p>My high-school job was working as a bike messenger in downtown Seattle. I cut my biking eye-teeth commuting from Edmonds and riding up, down and around the Seattle metropolitan area. Now I live, carless, in Portland (OR) and commute to work, by bicycle five days a week (bar weather). A few quick, anecdotal, non-definitive observations:</p><p>
Portland has more bike lanes than Seattle, hands down. This does not, however, make drivers any more careful. My first month in Portland I was mowed over WHILST IN THE BIKE LANE. There is only so much you can do to avoid being hit. Drivers have to take some responsibility.</p><p>
Seattle's Burke Gilman trail is a marvel because it goes where people need it to go. The number of commuters that move along the Burke highlight the difference between a recreational bike-trail and a commuter bike-trail. It really ought to be extended as soon as possible.</p><p>
Portland has an incredible number of bicycle racks, which in my opinion may be what makes it truly bike-friendly. I can always find somewhere to park my ride. Waiters are also famously tolerant of folk showing up with helmets strapped to their bags and bike-gloves on, so props.</p><p>
As far as I'm concerned, bikes have no right and no right of way on busy sidewalks. I drive my boyfriend crazy by insisting that he get his ass back on the road, but by having a right to the road, bikers forfeit their right to the sidewalk. Sorry, dudes.</p><p>
In the end, it only works if there is a mutual contract. When I was in England, I was floored by how many riders didn't wear helmets. On the other hand, I didn't know anyone who has ever been hit. I've been hit three times in eight years in the States. Bikers have to wear a helmet, ride responsibly, and stay off of the sidewalk. Drivers have to get down off of their expensive, smoggy high-horsepower thrones(I'll admit to a chip on my shoulder) and check their blind spots.</p><p>
Oh yeah - and I'm really tired of hearing, "Get off the road, bitch!" I've heard it before. It's no longer shocking.</p>
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				<p><strong>The mutual contract</strong></p><p>My high-school job was working as a bike messenger in downtown Seattle. I cut my biking eye-teeth commuting from Edmonds and riding up, down and around the Seattle metropolitan area. Now I live, carless, in Portland (OR) and commute to work, by bicycle five days a week (bar weather). A few quick, anecdotal, non-definitive observations:</p><p>
Portland has more bike lanes than Seattle, hands down. This does not, however, make drivers any more careful. My first month in Portland I was mowed over WHILST IN THE BIKE LANE. There is only so much you can do to avoid being hit. Drivers have to take some responsibility.</p><p>
Seattle's Burke Gilman trail is a marvel because it goes where people need it to go. The number of commuters that move along the Burke highlight the difference between a recreational bike-trail and a commuter bike-trail. It really ought to be extended as soon as possible.</p><p>
Portland has an incredible number of bicycle racks, which in my opinion may be what makes it truly bike-friendly. I can always find somewhere to park my ride. Waiters are also famously tolerant of folk showing up with helmets strapped to their bags and bike-gloves on, so props.</p><p>
As far as I'm concerned, bikes have no right and no right of way on busy sidewalks. I drive my boyfriend crazy by insisting that he get his ass back on the road, but by having a right to the road, bikers forfeit their right to the sidewalk. Sorry, dudes.</p><p>
In the end, it only works if there is a mutual contract. When I was in England, I was floored by how many riders didn't wear helmets. On the other hand, I didn't know anyone who has ever been hit. I've been hit three times in eight years in the States. Bikers have to wear a helmet, ride responsibly, and stay off of the sidewalk. Drivers have to get down off of their expensive, smoggy high-horsepower thrones(I'll admit to a chip on my shoulder) and check their blind spots.</p><p>
Oh yeah - and I'm really tired of hearing, "Get off the road, bitch!" I've heard it before. It's no longer shocking.</p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by mrstephengross</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 04:34:11 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Great article!<p>You make a great point by emphasizing the qualitative difference in bike paths, rather than simply take at face value the absolute length of bike lanes in any given city.<p>
Certainly anyone who has biked on roads knows there is a significant difference between a "share the road" sign and a separated bike path. It's really exciting to see pictures of European cities that have fully separated (by grade, too!) their bike paths.<p>
How do they handle negotiating intersections? And is there real enforcement of traffic laws for bikes?<p>
Thanks,<br>
--Steve

<p>Stephen Gross

Minneapolis, MN

<a href="http://grossreport.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://grossreport.blogspot.com</a></p></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Great article!<p>You make a great point by emphasizing the qualitative difference in bike paths, rather than simply take at face value the absolute length of bike lanes in any given city.<p>
Certainly anyone who has biked on roads knows there is a significant difference between a "share the road" sign and a separated bike path. It's really exciting to see pictures of European cities that have fully separated (by grade, too!) their bike paths.<p>
How do they handle negotiating intersections? And is there real enforcement of traffic laws for bikes?<p>
Thanks,<br>
--Steve

<p>Stephen Gross

Minneapolis, MN

<a href="http://grossreport.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://grossreport.blogspot.com</a></p></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by Montanaebiker</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 04:49:52 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/15</guid>
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				<p><strong>Speaking of who's the real asshats...</strong></p><p>One thing I've always joked about as a waitress is that everyone should HAVE TO, at some point in their life, work in the service industry...to get a taste of what it's like to be treated disrespectfully by others. You really learn to be nice!</p><p>
And it's the same thing with mutual respect on the road or trails...everyone should have to see what it's like being a horseback rider and having a bike whiz by you and upset your horse, or being on a bike and having a car pass you on a tight corner (when there's a big straight stretch coming up...). You really learn to slow down a bit and give other users some space! </p><p>
Here in MT, on trails (I'm talking about dirt, in the woods type trails) bikers yeild to everyone - walkers and horseback riders. And I make sure to practice this every time when I'm biking because that mutual respect is what keeps our trails friendly for all users. </p><p>
It's much much different when you're a biker on the road, of course. But the lessons of respect still apply - if you're on a bike and going slow - pull out so a car can pass. And if you're in a car and approaching a biker, have a teeny bit of patience and wait until it's very clear that you can pass easily without endangering the biker's life! </p>
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				<p><strong>Speaking of who's the real asshats...</strong></p><p>One thing I've always joked about as a waitress is that everyone should HAVE TO, at some point in their life, work in the service industry...to get a taste of what it's like to be treated disrespectfully by others. You really learn to be nice!</p><p>
And it's the same thing with mutual respect on the road or trails...everyone should have to see what it's like being a horseback rider and having a bike whiz by you and upset your horse, or being on a bike and having a car pass you on a tight corner (when there's a big straight stretch coming up...). You really learn to slow down a bit and give other users some space! </p><p>
Here in MT, on trails (I'm talking about dirt, in the woods type trails) bikers yeild to everyone - walkers and horseback riders. And I make sure to practice this every time when I'm biking because that mutual respect is what keeps our trails friendly for all users. </p><p>
It's much much different when you're a biker on the road, of course. But the lessons of respect still apply - if you're on a bike and going slow - pull out so a car can pass. And if you're in a car and approaching a biker, have a teeny bit of patience and wait until it's very clear that you can pass easily without endangering the biker's life! </p>
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            <title>Comment #16 by Savemobile</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 08:51:35 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Less wimpy NVEs in Montana<p>Montana recently passed a law to allow "medium speed" electric vehicles that can go 35mph on road up to 45mph. Washington state was looking to pass a similar law. <a href="http://savefoundation.blogspot.com/search?q=sb+185+signed" rel="nofollow">More information.<p>
- <a href="http://www.Savemobile.org" rel="nofollow">Savemobile.org<br>
</br></a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Less wimpy NVEs in Montana<p>Montana recently passed a law to allow "medium speed" electric vehicles that can go 35mph on road up to 45mph. Washington state was looking to pass a similar law. <a href="http://savefoundation.blogspot.com/search?q=sb+185+signed" rel="nofollow">More information.<p>
- <a href="http://www.Savemobile.org" rel="nofollow">Savemobile.org<br>
</br></a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #17 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/what-bike-friendly-looks-like/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 23:56:14 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Bikes should use sidewalks when appropriate<p>because it is often the safest option, especially when there are no pedestrians on them. They simply must give pedestrians the right of way and treat them with care and respect, the same way cars should treat bikers.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Bikes should use sidewalks when appropriate<p>because it is often the safest option, especially when there are no pedestrians on them. They simply must give pedestrians the right of way and treat them with care and respect, the same way cars should treat bikers.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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