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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Climate change leading to water shortages in U.S. West, says study]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by GonzoDon</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/west2/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 03:58:21 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/west2/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>This is a big issue in the Western U.S.</strong></p><p>And I mean a BIG issue.</p><p>
Remember that this is also the fastest-growing region of the country. &nbsp;Cities like Las Vegas and Phoenix are on unsustainable growth trajectories that look, to me, strangely like a trains headed for cliffs.</p><p>
The Southwestern writer Richard Bowen noted that developing more water supplies for unsustainable desert cities like Vegas and Phoenix is akin to providing more liquor to an alcoholic. &nbsp;Those cities are going on water binges that simply cannot be sustained over the long-term -- at least, not without doing untold damage to the environment (e.g., drying up regional aquifers for the next 10,000 years). &nbsp;And, given studies like this one in Science, they not even be sustainable even over the relatively short term of 25 to 50 years.</p><p>
Of course this hasn't stopped people from moving to the southwest. &nbsp;Nor stopped local chamber of commerces from encouraging people to move there. &nbsp;Nor encouraged the powers-that-be to seriously address the flood of immigration, legal and otherwise, into the region.</p><p>
We're headed straight for major 'overshoot' problems in the desert southwest. &nbsp;Not that you will hear any presidential candidates address the issue. &nbsp;(I'm not even sure if any politicians east of the Missouri really 'get' it.) &nbsp;</p><p>
May you live in interesting times.</p>
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				<p><strong>This is a big issue in the Western U.S.</strong></p><p>And I mean a BIG issue.</p><p>
Remember that this is also the fastest-growing region of the country. &nbsp;Cities like Las Vegas and Phoenix are on unsustainable growth trajectories that look, to me, strangely like a trains headed for cliffs.</p><p>
The Southwestern writer Richard Bowen noted that developing more water supplies for unsustainable desert cities like Vegas and Phoenix is akin to providing more liquor to an alcoholic. &nbsp;Those cities are going on water binges that simply cannot be sustained over the long-term -- at least, not without doing untold damage to the environment (e.g., drying up regional aquifers for the next 10,000 years). &nbsp;And, given studies like this one in Science, they not even be sustainable even over the relatively short term of 25 to 50 years.</p><p>
Of course this hasn't stopped people from moving to the southwest. &nbsp;Nor stopped local chamber of commerces from encouraging people to move there. &nbsp;Nor encouraged the powers-that-be to seriously address the flood of immigration, legal and otherwise, into the region.</p><p>
We're headed straight for major 'overshoot' problems in the desert southwest. &nbsp;Not that you will hear any presidential candidates address the issue. &nbsp;(I'm not even sure if any politicians east of the Missouri really 'get' it.) &nbsp;</p><p>
May you live in interesting times.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/west2/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 08:38:38 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/west2/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Place Your Bets</strong></p><p><br>
The Bailo Model says that increases in regular precipitation will more than make up for and exceed any loss due to snowpack.</p><p>
The Washington Post article that is one of your references says that "parts of the West have been hit by record snowfalls this winter". </p><p>
So, what we lose in storage, we gain in throughput.</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Place Your Bets</strong></p><p><br>
The Bailo Model says that increases in regular precipitation will more than make up for and exceed any loss due to snowpack.</p><p>
The Washington Post article that is one of your references says that "parts of the West have been hit by record snowfalls this winter". </p><p>
So, what we lose in storage, we gain in throughput.</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Des Emery</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/west2/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 10:34:21 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/west2/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>water</strong></p><p>jabailo seems to confuse 'snowpack' with 'snowfall.' The first is composed of accumulated snow which falls from late fall/early winter and builds up over the winter season starting to melt in early spring, slowly, with most of it soaking into the deep ground. &nbsp;The latter is what we are generally experiencing over North America now, blizzards, sleet, ice, heavy snowfalls, all of which melt rapidly and do not penetrate the ground soil, which is still frozen solid. &nbsp;That water runs off in floods, and will definitely result in drought conditions in the coming summer season. &nbsp;Ask any farmer how much he relies on the right soil conditions for seasonal planting, growth, and harvesting. &nbsp;Ask any city dweller how much he relies on water coming out of his kitchen and bathroom taps. </p>
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				<p><strong>water</strong></p><p>jabailo seems to confuse 'snowpack' with 'snowfall.' The first is composed of accumulated snow which falls from late fall/early winter and builds up over the winter season starting to melt in early spring, slowly, with most of it soaking into the deep ground. &nbsp;The latter is what we are generally experiencing over North America now, blizzards, sleet, ice, heavy snowfalls, all of which melt rapidly and do not penetrate the ground soil, which is still frozen solid. &nbsp;That water runs off in floods, and will definitely result in drought conditions in the coming summer season. &nbsp;Ask any farmer how much he relies on the right soil conditions for seasonal planting, growth, and harvesting. &nbsp;Ask any city dweller how much he relies on water coming out of his kitchen and bathroom taps. </p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Tasermons Partner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/west2/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 10:35:04 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/west2/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Switcheroo...</strong></p><p>So, what we lose in storage, we gain in throughput.</p><p>
And if those parts that get extra precip. are usually drier areas? &nbsp;What then?</p><p>
Ya need to realize that total amount is only parta the problem, just as important is distribution.</p><p>
For example, if Teaxs gets it's regular amount of rainfall per year total, but almost all of that falls near, say, El Paso, then we have problems. &nbsp;Not only would the rest of the state be in drought, but El Paso would be flooded.</p><p>
Distribution is an important factor. <br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Switcheroo...</strong></p><p>So, what we lose in storage, we gain in throughput.</p><p>
And if those parts that get extra precip. are usually drier areas? &nbsp;What then?</p><p>
Ya need to realize that total amount is only parta the problem, just as important is distribution.</p><p>
For example, if Teaxs gets it's regular amount of rainfall per year total, but almost all of that falls near, say, El Paso, then we have problems. &nbsp;Not only would the rest of the state be in drought, but El Paso would be flooded.</p><p>
Distribution is an important factor. <br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by parkprotector</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/west2/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 07:53:47 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/west2/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Water Woes</strong></p><p>GonzoDon is right on target. Water is taken for granted, especially by those who have always lived at the end of a city water main. No one thinks twice about long showers, filling a swimming pool, or letting the water run down the gutter when cleaning your sidewalk or washing your car. Even those who have lived through water rationing only think of it as a temporary inconvenience...not a lifestyle. </p><p>
I live in central California and I see the dry lakes and reservoirs every day. Many in the Sacramento and San Joaquin valleys are at 24% of normal and one good snowpack isn't going to solve the problem of too much demand and too little planning. Building permits continue to be issued in water districts that can't even meet current demand and more people are moving to the area every day. But more dams are not being built and recharge areas for the aquifers are being paved over. </p><p>
As an environmental planner, I see, first hand, the inability or outright refusal of governments and developers to look beyond the end of their terms or pocketbooks. It is a lethal combination of ignorance, greed, political ambition, and blind faith that "science" will solve all problems. And, unfortunately, most cities, counties, and individuals will only act with 20/20 hindsight after they start pumping mud. </p>
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				<p><strong>Water Woes</strong></p><p>GonzoDon is right on target. Water is taken for granted, especially by those who have always lived at the end of a city water main. No one thinks twice about long showers, filling a swimming pool, or letting the water run down the gutter when cleaning your sidewalk or washing your car. Even those who have lived through water rationing only think of it as a temporary inconvenience...not a lifestyle. </p><p>
I live in central California and I see the dry lakes and reservoirs every day. Many in the Sacramento and San Joaquin valleys are at 24% of normal and one good snowpack isn't going to solve the problem of too much demand and too little planning. Building permits continue to be issued in water districts that can't even meet current demand and more people are moving to the area every day. But more dams are not being built and recharge areas for the aquifers are being paved over. </p><p>
As an environmental planner, I see, first hand, the inability or outright refusal of governments and developers to look beyond the end of their terms or pocketbooks. It is a lethal combination of ignorance, greed, political ambition, and blind faith that "science" will solve all problems. And, unfortunately, most cities, counties, and individuals will only act with 20/20 hindsight after they start pumping mud. </p>
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