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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Umbra on water conservation]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by river2sea72</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:31:55 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/1</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>What about outdoor use?</strong></p><p>The largest household use of water is usually outdoor water use, even in places you would normally think of as being quite "wet", people go crazy with their lawn sprinklers every summer. &nbsp;The best way to reduce water use at home is - get rid of your lawn and plant drought-resistant, native plants.</p>
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				<p><strong>What about outdoor use?</strong></p><p>The largest household use of water is usually outdoor water use, even in places you would normally think of as being quite "wet", people go crazy with their lawn sprinklers every summer. &nbsp;The best way to reduce water use at home is - get rid of your lawn and plant drought-resistant, native plants.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by estark</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 04:25:41 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Want to really save water?</strong></p><p>Nearly half of all water consumed in this country is used to raise livestock, mostly for feedcrops (globally, it's 8%). According to EarthSave International, it takes about 25 gallons of water to grow one pound of wheat compared with about 2500 gallons for one pound of beef. It takes about 660 gallons of water to produce a pound of chicken, including the skin and bones. With the same water, farmers could produce 16 pounds of broccoli, enough soybeans for three pounds of tofu or enough wheat for nearly five pounds of whole wheat bread. Overall, US poultry operations use 96.5 billion gallons of water annually, enough water to meet all the yearly domestic needs of nearly 4.5 million North Americans.</p><p>
In addition, livestock production is the largest source of water pollution (from animal wastes, antibiotics and hormones, chemicals from tanneries, fertilizers and pesticides used for feedcrops, and sediments from eroded pastures).<br>
It contributes to "dead" zones in coastal areas, degradation of coral reefs, human health problems, antibiotic resistance and much more. </p><p>
An article in The Guardian exposed that "meat-eaters consume the equivalent of about 1,100 gallons of water a day compared to the roughly 300 gallons used by people on vegetarian diets in developing countries. All that water has to come from somewhere." </p><p>
So, scientists are finally concluding that it will be almost impossible to feed future generations the typical diet eaten in western Europe and North America without destroying the environment. No kidding. Go vegan.</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Want to really save water?</strong></p><p>Nearly half of all water consumed in this country is used to raise livestock, mostly for feedcrops (globally, it's 8%). According to EarthSave International, it takes about 25 gallons of water to grow one pound of wheat compared with about 2500 gallons for one pound of beef. It takes about 660 gallons of water to produce a pound of chicken, including the skin and bones. With the same water, farmers could produce 16 pounds of broccoli, enough soybeans for three pounds of tofu or enough wheat for nearly five pounds of whole wheat bread. Overall, US poultry operations use 96.5 billion gallons of water annually, enough water to meet all the yearly domestic needs of nearly 4.5 million North Americans.</p><p>
In addition, livestock production is the largest source of water pollution (from animal wastes, antibiotics and hormones, chemicals from tanneries, fertilizers and pesticides used for feedcrops, and sediments from eroded pastures).<br>
It contributes to "dead" zones in coastal areas, degradation of coral reefs, human health problems, antibiotic resistance and much more. </p><p>
An article in The Guardian exposed that "meat-eaters consume the equivalent of about 1,100 gallons of water a day compared to the roughly 300 gallons used by people on vegetarian diets in developing countries. All that water has to come from somewhere." </p><p>
So, scientists are finally concluding that it will be almost impossible to feed future generations the typical diet eaten in western Europe and North America without destroying the environment. No kidding. Go vegan.</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by TheSSG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:23:42 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/3</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Eat Less Meat</strong></p><p>I think the above post hits it on the head.</p><p>
You can get a low-flow showerhead, flush the toilet once a day, etc, etc, etc.<br>
But, in ALL these efforts, eating a quarter-pounder will waste WAY more water.</p><p>
So I think worrying about the little things is a bit silly unless you already have the big things out of the way (i.e. you don't eat meat).</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Eat Less Meat</strong></p><p>I think the above post hits it on the head.</p><p>
You can get a low-flow showerhead, flush the toilet once a day, etc, etc, etc.<br>
But, in ALL these efforts, eating a quarter-pounder will waste WAY more water.</p><p>
So I think worrying about the little things is a bit silly unless you already have the big things out of the way (i.e. you don't eat meat).</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Greenbeings Nancy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:14:34 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Saving water should start from the home</strong></p><p>Buy a washing machine with capacity to wash more clothes so that you can wash them on alternate days. &nbsp;Do you really need a steam iron if you can iron your clothes right after taking them out from the washing machine? &nbsp;Leaving clothes in the machine will crease them and need more ironing=more energy; the human and electrical type. &nbsp;Also, when the clothes are still moist, you need less heat and it is easier to iron. &nbsp;After ironing, hang it up to dry completely instead of using the dryer. &nbsp;</p><p>
Use water from washing grains and vegetable and fish to water your plants. &nbsp;The blood from your fish is a very good fertilizer. &nbsp;If you are ambitious and use menstrual cup, you can add the collection to your garden too if you are not into painting with it. &nbsp;Yes, there are people who do that. &nbsp;</p><p>
Take showers as a family activity cum biology class for the children. &nbsp;Pee as your wash your face under the shower. &nbsp;</p><p>
Try to use only one toilet in the house so that you need not have to wash all toilets more frequently. &nbsp;Do not flush the toilet when anyone in the family gets up to pee at night. &nbsp;Flush only in the morning after all have done their poos and pees.</p><p>
Stop all sink drips by remembering that it is bad for Feng Shui. &nbsp;It is like dripping your money away.</p><p>
If the children have been brought up this way, I think they will be more conscious when they use water in public places.</p>
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				<p><strong>Saving water should start from the home</strong></p><p>Buy a washing machine with capacity to wash more clothes so that you can wash them on alternate days. &nbsp;Do you really need a steam iron if you can iron your clothes right after taking them out from the washing machine? &nbsp;Leaving clothes in the machine will crease them and need more ironing=more energy; the human and electrical type. &nbsp;Also, when the clothes are still moist, you need less heat and it is easier to iron. &nbsp;After ironing, hang it up to dry completely instead of using the dryer. &nbsp;</p><p>
Use water from washing grains and vegetable and fish to water your plants. &nbsp;The blood from your fish is a very good fertilizer. &nbsp;If you are ambitious and use menstrual cup, you can add the collection to your garden too if you are not into painting with it. &nbsp;Yes, there are people who do that. &nbsp;</p><p>
Take showers as a family activity cum biology class for the children. &nbsp;Pee as your wash your face under the shower. &nbsp;</p><p>
Try to use only one toilet in the house so that you need not have to wash all toilets more frequently. &nbsp;Do not flush the toilet when anyone in the family gets up to pee at night. &nbsp;Flush only in the morning after all have done their poos and pees.</p><p>
Stop all sink drips by remembering that it is bad for Feng Shui. &nbsp;It is like dripping your money away.</p><p>
If the children have been brought up this way, I think they will be more conscious when they use water in public places.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Greenbeings Nancy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:30:37 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/5</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Collect Rain Water</strong></p><p>In Malaysia, the government has started a campaign to construct greener buildings. &nbsp;One of the suggestions is not to use treated water for washing cars, floors and for gardening. &nbsp;It rains all year round in Malaysia and collecting rainwater to use for such activities is a better option.</p><p>
Singapore is more ambitious. &nbsp;To curtail their reliance of buying water from Malaysia, they are recycling wastewater, or treating sewage water to the point that it is safe to drink. &nbsp;So, when you are down in Singapore and want to do the "being there done that" thing, make sure you buy a bottle of their NEUwater.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>Collect Rain Water</strong></p><p>In Malaysia, the government has started a campaign to construct greener buildings. &nbsp;One of the suggestions is not to use treated water for washing cars, floors and for gardening. &nbsp;It rains all year round in Malaysia and collecting rainwater to use for such activities is a better option.</p><p>
Singapore is more ambitious. &nbsp;To curtail their reliance of buying water from Malaysia, they are recycling wastewater, or treating sewage water to the point that it is safe to drink. &nbsp;So, when you are down in Singapore and want to do the "being there done that" thing, make sure you buy a bottle of their NEUwater.</p><p>
&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Liara Covert</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:08:40 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/6</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>U.S. versus Australia: a case study<p>Previous posts reveal the general public is more aware we all benefit from reviewing and rethinking our water use. The food, agricultural and also energy industries use far more water than individual home use, and our choices for food and also energy consumption will influence what is grown and what policy changes will define our future.<p>
In 2000, the U.S. Geological Survey revealed the U.S. used 408 billion gallons of water per day. <a href="http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/2004/circ1268/" rel="nofollow">http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/2004/circ1268/<p>
About 195 Bgal/d, or 48% of all freshwater and saline-water withdrawals for 2000, were used for thermoelectric power. Most of this water came from surface water and used for once-through cooling at power plants. About 52% of fresh surface-water withdrawals and about 96 percent of saline-water withdrawals were for thermoelectric-power use. That's more than 1/2!<p>
In contrast, consider Australia. &nbsp;In 2004, the Australian Bureau of Statistics published Australia's Water Account for 2000-01. It showed that irrigated agriculture is the main user of water, or 67% of water used in 2000-01. Urban and industrial consumption accounted for only 9% of water use. &nbsp;As of 2007, most populated Australian areas are on highly restricted water. &nbsp;Agriculture is suffering yet the energy industry which uses millions of litres of water isn't penalized. (Power plants have been asked to come up with a water saving strategies by end of the year). <p>
It's great for each person to evolve to desire to conserve water at home. &nbsp;Energy-saving ideas can include using less water and energy wherever you can. &nbsp;Becoming a minimalist could have its advantages in saving money and reducing negative impacts on the environment. At the same time, what does the usage gap between individuals, the food and energy industry tell us about the state of awareness of the water problem and usefulness of government regulations?<br>
</br></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>U.S. versus Australia: a case study<p>Previous posts reveal the general public is more aware we all benefit from reviewing and rethinking our water use. The food, agricultural and also energy industries use far more water than individual home use, and our choices for food and also energy consumption will influence what is grown and what policy changes will define our future.<p>
In 2000, the U.S. Geological Survey revealed the U.S. used 408 billion gallons of water per day. <a href="http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/2004/circ1268/" rel="nofollow">http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/2004/circ1268/<p>
About 195 Bgal/d, or 48% of all freshwater and saline-water withdrawals for 2000, were used for thermoelectric power. Most of this water came from surface water and used for once-through cooling at power plants. About 52% of fresh surface-water withdrawals and about 96 percent of saline-water withdrawals were for thermoelectric-power use. That's more than 1/2!<p>
In contrast, consider Australia. &nbsp;In 2004, the Australian Bureau of Statistics published Australia's Water Account for 2000-01. It showed that irrigated agriculture is the main user of water, or 67% of water used in 2000-01. Urban and industrial consumption accounted for only 9% of water use. &nbsp;As of 2007, most populated Australian areas are on highly restricted water. &nbsp;Agriculture is suffering yet the energy industry which uses millions of litres of water isn't penalized. (Power plants have been asked to come up with a water saving strategies by end of the year). <p>
It's great for each person to evolve to desire to conserve water at home. &nbsp;Energy-saving ideas can include using less water and energy wherever you can. &nbsp;Becoming a minimalist could have its advantages in saving money and reducing negative impacts on the environment. At the same time, what does the usage gap between individuals, the food and energy industry tell us about the state of awareness of the water problem and usefulness of government regulations?<br>
</br></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by croner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:50:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Vegan...the only Option?</strong></p><p>What about fish and those sources of meat that don't pollute large amounts of water? &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>Vegan...the only Option?</strong></p><p>What about fish and those sources of meat that don't pollute large amounts of water? &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by CyberBrook</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:30:39 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/8</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>water, water everywhere ... in the meat you eat<p><b>From Eco-Eating at <a href="http://www.brook.com/veg" rel="nofollow">http://www.brook.com/veg :<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * 5. Water: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Eating meat wastes huge amounts of water, increasingly referred to as "blue gold". In an effort to conserve increasingly scarce yet completely necessary water, you can install a water saver on your kitchen faucet, saving up to 6,000 gallons (23,000 liters) of water per year. Your savings will be lost, however, if you consume just one pound (0.45 kg) of California beef (which requires about 5,000 gallons (19,000 l)--and as much as 12,000 gallons (45,000 l)--of water per pound to produce). A typical meat-based diet wastes a tremendous amount of water per person every day, hastening "peak water", while a vegetarian diet uses only a moderate amount. The amount of water used to produce the meat from a single cow is enough to float a large ship. More than half of the water consumed in the U.S. irrigates land to grow feed for livestock. The Ogallala Aquifer, under the Great Plains of the U.S. and one of the world's largest stores of fresh groundwater, took millions of years to create and is being depleted (and polluted) in decades due to the livestock industry and the crops needed to feed it.<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The U.S. EPA estimates that almost half of America's surface streams and wells are contaminated by "agricultural pollutants", including chemicals and feces. Due to the nitrates in manure, nitrates are too often found in drinking water. Oceans are also being heavily polluted, while coral reefs and other marine habitats destroyed.<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Eco-Eaters help protect and conserve this most precious resource.<p>
"More than 4,000 gallons (15,000 liters) of water are needed to produce a single day's worth of food for the typical meat eater. In comparison, an ovo-lacto vegetarian requires only 1,200 gallons (4,500 l) of water, and a vegan needs a mere 300 gallons (1,135 l)."<p>
Vegetarian Times Complete Cookbook<br>
<a href="http://www.vegetariantimes.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.vegetariantimes.com<br>
</br></a></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></a></b></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>water, water everywhere ... in the meat you eat<p><b>From Eco-Eating at <a href="http://www.brook.com/veg" rel="nofollow">http://www.brook.com/veg :<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * 5. Water: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Eating meat wastes huge amounts of water, increasingly referred to as "blue gold". In an effort to conserve increasingly scarce yet completely necessary water, you can install a water saver on your kitchen faucet, saving up to 6,000 gallons (23,000 liters) of water per year. Your savings will be lost, however, if you consume just one pound (0.45 kg) of California beef (which requires about 5,000 gallons (19,000 l)--and as much as 12,000 gallons (45,000 l)--of water per pound to produce). A typical meat-based diet wastes a tremendous amount of water per person every day, hastening "peak water", while a vegetarian diet uses only a moderate amount. The amount of water used to produce the meat from a single cow is enough to float a large ship. More than half of the water consumed in the U.S. irrigates land to grow feed for livestock. The Ogallala Aquifer, under the Great Plains of the U.S. and one of the world's largest stores of fresh groundwater, took millions of years to create and is being depleted (and polluted) in decades due to the livestock industry and the crops needed to feed it.<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The U.S. EPA estimates that almost half of America's surface streams and wells are contaminated by "agricultural pollutants", including chemicals and feces. Due to the nitrates in manure, nitrates are too often found in drinking water. Oceans are also being heavily polluted, while coral reefs and other marine habitats destroyed.<p>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Eco-Eaters help protect and conserve this most precious resource.<p>
"More than 4,000 gallons (15,000 liters) of water are needed to produce a single day's worth of food for the typical meat eater. In comparison, an ovo-lacto vegetarian requires only 1,200 gallons (4,500 l) of water, and a vegan needs a mere 300 gallons (1,135 l)."<p>
Vegetarian Times Complete Cookbook<br>
<a href="http://www.vegetariantimes.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.vegetariantimes.com<br>
</br></a></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></a></b></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by bailsout</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:27:01 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/9</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>water usage</strong></p><p>I get my water from my well. Any sources for buying a water meter?</p>
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				<p><strong>water usage</strong></p><p>I get my water from my well. Any sources for buying a water meter?</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by Tracy Rout</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:37:38 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/10</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Recognising the value of water</strong></p><p>Water (or lack thereof) is a huge issue in Australia. As a long time water miser, what has really amazed me has been how quickly the public's mindset has changed in recent years. My home-city of Brisbane, Queensland, is now on level 5 water restrictions, which is the highest level there is (so far). This means restrictions of 140 litres per person per day, with fines for people who exceed this. Washing cars is banned, and gardens can only be watered with buckets, between 4 and 7pm on certain nights of the week. In a city where no more than five years ago it was common to see kids playing under sprinklers on lush green lawns, now every second house has (at least one) rain water tank, and people get chastised by their neighbours if their lawn isn't the same crunchy brown texture as the rest of ours. Of course there are some people who just stick to the rules, or even flaunt them, but I think it's really amazing how quickly most people have changed their outlook and begun to recognise the real value of water.</p>
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				<p><strong>Recognising the value of water</strong></p><p>Water (or lack thereof) is a huge issue in Australia. As a long time water miser, what has really amazed me has been how quickly the public's mindset has changed in recent years. My home-city of Brisbane, Queensland, is now on level 5 water restrictions, which is the highest level there is (so far). This means restrictions of 140 litres per person per day, with fines for people who exceed this. Washing cars is banned, and gardens can only be watered with buckets, between 4 and 7pm on certain nights of the week. In a city where no more than five years ago it was common to see kids playing under sprinklers on lush green lawns, now every second house has (at least one) rain water tank, and people get chastised by their neighbours if their lawn isn't the same crunchy brown texture as the rest of ours. Of course there are some people who just stick to the rules, or even flaunt them, but I think it's really amazing how quickly most people have changed their outlook and begun to recognise the real value of water.</p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by Tracy Rout</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:16:52 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/11</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Some extra tips</strong></p><p>To follow up my previous post - if you are really serious about saving water, here's some extra tips (in addition to Umbra's excellent ones) from Australia:<br>


 Don't hose your garden, in fact, don't hose anything. Throw out your hose right now.<br>
 Collect any grey water in your house (from washing dishes, using the washing machine, mopping the floor) and use that on the garden. This requires that you use garden-friendly low phosphate cleaners, which I'm sure we all do anyway.<br>
 If you have to clean your car, do it with a bucket on the lawn. Or go to a car wash that uses recycled water.<br>
 Even with a low flow shower head, you shouldn't shower for any longer than 4 minutes.<br>


I think the way to make the most difference in your household use of water is to change the way you think about water. If you know that it is valuable, you won't want to waste it.</br></br></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Some extra tips</strong></p><p>To follow up my previous post - if you are really serious about saving water, here's some extra tips (in addition to Umbra's excellent ones) from Australia:<br>


 Don't hose your garden, in fact, don't hose anything. Throw out your hose right now.<br>
 Collect any grey water in your house (from washing dishes, using the washing machine, mopping the floor) and use that on the garden. This requires that you use garden-friendly low phosphate cleaners, which I'm sure we all do anyway.<br>
 If you have to clean your car, do it with a bucket on the lawn. Or go to a car wash that uses recycled water.<br>
 Even with a low flow shower head, you shouldn't shower for any longer than 4 minutes.<br>


I think the way to make the most difference in your household use of water is to change the way you think about water. If you know that it is valuable, you won't want to waste it.</br></br></br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by h2oguard</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:27:00 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/12</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Toilet Leaks<p>There's a new product on the market that actually meters water flowing into your toilet AND detects leaks. &nbsp;If a leak is present the valve will not automatically refill your toilet tank like float valves available on the market. Conserve water today. <a href="http://www.h2oguard.us" rel="nofollow">http://www.h2oguard.us</a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Toilet Leaks<p>There's a new product on the market that actually meters water flowing into your toilet AND detects leaks. &nbsp;If a leak is present the valve will not automatically refill your toilet tank like float valves available on the market. Conserve water today. <a href="http://www.h2oguard.us" rel="nofollow">http://www.h2oguard.us</a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by pinechild</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:30:29 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/13</guid>
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				<p><strong>meat, toilets, raincatching<p>There have been many good comments about meat... but it seems to me they would apply to factory farms. &nbsp;How about grassfed beef and chicken? I would think their impact on water use is much much less both upstream and downstream. &nbsp;I'm thinking of the farm that was profiled in Michael Pollan's Omnivore's Dilemma, Polyface Farms:<br>
<a href="http://www.polyfacefarms.com/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"><br>
<a href="http://www.polyfacefarms.com/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.polyfacefarms.com/.<p>
About low flush toilets- I think the idea is right, but the execution isn't always that great- I hear people complain that sometimes you need an extra flush to get things going. &nbsp;There are now toilets that have to flusher levers, or two settings- No 1 and No 2- my workplace has these in the new buildings. &nbsp;I'd like to collect grey water for flushing too, but I want my toilet to stay clean :-)<p>
Here in the SF Bay Area I would love to collect rain water, but where to put it...? &nbsp;it's not like we have a lot of space for a big ol' tank... underground?</p></p></a></br></a></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>meat, toilets, raincatching<p>There have been many good comments about meat... but it seems to me they would apply to factory farms. &nbsp;How about grassfed beef and chicken? I would think their impact on water use is much much less both upstream and downstream. &nbsp;I'm thinking of the farm that was profiled in Michael Pollan's Omnivore's Dilemma, Polyface Farms:<br>
<a href="http://www.polyfacefarms.com/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"><br>
<a href="http://www.polyfacefarms.com/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.polyfacefarms.com/.<p>
About low flush toilets- I think the idea is right, but the execution isn't always that great- I hear people complain that sometimes you need an extra flush to get things going. &nbsp;There are now toilets that have to flusher levers, or two settings- No 1 and No 2- my workplace has these in the new buildings. &nbsp;I'd like to collect grey water for flushing too, but I want my toilet to stay clean :-)<p>
Here in the SF Bay Area I would love to collect rain water, but where to put it...? &nbsp;it's not like we have a lot of space for a big ol' tank... underground?</p></p></a></br></a></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by estark</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:12:47 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/14</guid>
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				<p><strong>Re; grassfed livestock &amp; fish</strong></p><p>Re: grassfed beef and chicken: its takes massive amounts of water to grow grass. And they do poop and pee as much as any similar animal.</p><p>
Re: What about fish and those sources of meat that don't pollute large amounts of water?</p><p>
ALL animals raised for food pollute. Most of the fish at your grocery store is farmed fish and they are raised in intense confinement, analagous to a veal calf in its tiny cage. Very bad.<br>
Chemicals such as disinfectants, antifoulants and pesticides are used. The most controversial of these is the organophosphorus pesticide Dichlorvos (related to military nerve gases and the most toxic of the Government's 'Red List' substances), used to treat sea lice in salmon farming. It was originally named Nuvan but was renamed Aquaguard as a PR ploy. </p><p>
Dichlorvos not only kills sea lice, but is highly toxic to all forms of marine life, from plankton to crustaceans, and higher up on the food chain. It is reportedly also harmful to the fish being treated.<br>
Dichlorvos is also a hazard to fish farm workers, who may become poisoned through skin contact and inhalation. </p><p>
Fish farms also cause intense and highly localised pollution from feces and food pellets. Since salmon cages are generally placed in shallow and sheltered areas with little water movement, the bulk of the waste accumulates beneath the cages. Toxic by-products build up and this toxicity, along with physical smothering, cause destruction to natural organisms and can change the whole balance of the ecosystem. </p><p>
Then there's the matter of nitrates, phosphates and nitrogenous waste products (eutrophication). Eutrophication encourages population blooms of phytoplankton, some of which produce highly toxic substances. These can cause mass mortalities of fish and other wildlife, and are associated with paralytic shellfish poisoning in humans. I just read that a US study has shown that a 20 acre salmon farm produces as much organic waste as a town of 10,000 people! </p><p>
Think about it ...</p><p>
The best thing to do for the planet and the animal victims is to eat a PLANT-BASED DIET. It's that simple. <br>
</br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Re; grassfed livestock &amp; fish</strong></p><p>Re: grassfed beef and chicken: its takes massive amounts of water to grow grass. And they do poop and pee as much as any similar animal.</p><p>
Re: What about fish and those sources of meat that don't pollute large amounts of water?</p><p>
ALL animals raised for food pollute. Most of the fish at your grocery store is farmed fish and they are raised in intense confinement, analagous to a veal calf in its tiny cage. Very bad.<br>
Chemicals such as disinfectants, antifoulants and pesticides are used. The most controversial of these is the organophosphorus pesticide Dichlorvos (related to military nerve gases and the most toxic of the Government's 'Red List' substances), used to treat sea lice in salmon farming. It was originally named Nuvan but was renamed Aquaguard as a PR ploy. </p><p>
Dichlorvos not only kills sea lice, but is highly toxic to all forms of marine life, from plankton to crustaceans, and higher up on the food chain. It is reportedly also harmful to the fish being treated.<br>
Dichlorvos is also a hazard to fish farm workers, who may become poisoned through skin contact and inhalation. </p><p>
Fish farms also cause intense and highly localised pollution from feces and food pellets. Since salmon cages are generally placed in shallow and sheltered areas with little water movement, the bulk of the waste accumulates beneath the cages. Toxic by-products build up and this toxicity, along with physical smothering, cause destruction to natural organisms and can change the whole balance of the ecosystem. </p><p>
Then there's the matter of nitrates, phosphates and nitrogenous waste products (eutrophication). Eutrophication encourages population blooms of phytoplankton, some of which produce highly toxic substances. These can cause mass mortalities of fish and other wildlife, and are associated with paralytic shellfish poisoning in humans. I just read that a US study has shown that a 20 acre salmon farm produces as much organic waste as a town of 10,000 people! </p><p>
Think about it ...</p><p>
The best thing to do for the planet and the animal victims is to eat a PLANT-BASED DIET. It's that simple. <br>
</br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by mckittre</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2007 11:00:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/water_use/15</guid>
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				<p><strong>Or choose wild fish<p>I certainly agree with all the above criticisms of farmed salmon. &nbsp;But it's hardly fair to use that as a blanket condemnation of eating fish! &nbsp;<p>
Just as we can responsibly choose how our veggies are grown (organic or conventional, local or long-distance), we can make the same choices for our fish.<p>
Unlike the farmed stuff, wild Alaskan salmon is a great choice (and tastier). &nbsp;And unlike any other food source I can think of, the wild salmon fishery is an industry that relies on an intact ecosystem and healthy streams to survive. &nbsp;An alliance between the salmon fishermen and environmentalists could do a lot to preserve habitat for all kinds of plants and animals, both on land and in the sea. &nbsp;In some cases, this is already happening. &nbsp;But it won't continue if fishermen see environmentalists as a blanket opposition to them.<p>
-Erin<br>
<a href="http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org</a></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Or choose wild fish<p>I certainly agree with all the above criticisms of farmed salmon. &nbsp;But it's hardly fair to use that as a blanket condemnation of eating fish! &nbsp;<p>
Just as we can responsibly choose how our veggies are grown (organic or conventional, local or long-distance), we can make the same choices for our fish.<p>
Unlike the farmed stuff, wild Alaskan salmon is a great choice (and tastier). &nbsp;And unlike any other food source I can think of, the wild salmon fishery is an industry that relies on an intact ecosystem and healthy streams to survive. &nbsp;An alliance between the salmon fishermen and environmentalists could do a lot to preserve habitat for all kinds of plants and animals, both on land and in the sea. &nbsp;In some cases, this is already happening. &nbsp;But it won't continue if fishermen see environmentalists as a blanket opposition to them.<p>
-Erin<br>
<a href="http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org</a></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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