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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for As gas prices rise, Americans move back to the urbs]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/urban/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:39:13 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/urban/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Topsy Turvey: The End of the Urb</strong></p><p>You logic is backward.</p><p>
The NYT article says that prices are dropping precipitously in the suburbs, but that city values are still high. </p><p>
That means that business will continue to exude from the center cities and into the cheaper suburban centers or turn into Internet business.</p><p>
A far more likely scenario is not for people to "move to the cities" but for the cities to turn into suburbs. &nbsp; You can see that as a scenario for my metroplex of Seattle. &nbsp; The present problems in traffic come from Seattle proper being far too concentrated. &nbsp; By moving focal points (such as the new Sonics stadium) into places like Renton, and with the arrival of the Kent Events Center, people will not have to "go to the city" to find a job, but be able to commute 5 or 10 miles locally in a dynamic grid of local jobs and businesses.<br>
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				<p><strong>Topsy Turvey: The End of the Urb</strong></p><p>You logic is backward.</p><p>
The NYT article says that prices are dropping precipitously in the suburbs, but that city values are still high. </p><p>
That means that business will continue to exude from the center cities and into the cheaper suburban centers or turn into Internet business.</p><p>
A far more likely scenario is not for people to "move to the cities" but for the cities to turn into suburbs. &nbsp; You can see that as a scenario for my metroplex of Seattle. &nbsp; The present problems in traffic come from Seattle proper being far too concentrated. &nbsp; By moving focal points (such as the new Sonics stadium) into places like Renton, and with the arrival of the Kent Events Center, people will not have to "go to the city" to find a job, but be able to commute 5 or 10 miles locally in a dynamic grid of local jobs and businesses.<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by DannyGirl</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/urban/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:48:50 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/urban/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>re: Topsy Turvey: The End of the Urb</strong></p><p>Clearly this isn't a black/white, either/or situation. &nbsp;(Either gas prices are low and people move to the suburbs, gas prices rise and people move to the city -or- land prices drop so people move to the suburbs or land prices rise...) &nbsp;Clearly the real world is highly dynamic and all the article underscored was a &gt;trend&lt; - like any discernable thread in a tapestry.</p><p>
That said, what I have long noted is that the American urbs and suburbs were in the process of moving from the 1950s quintessentially American pattern -- cheap land, cheap oil, jobs &amp; poor located in cities, well-off lived in suburbs and trek in via personal automobile -- to the European model -- expensive land &amp; oil, jobs &amp; well-off located in cities, poor live in suburbs and trek in via mass transit.</p><p>
Check out the Paris suburbs ("les banlieux") where the poor live while the chic, well-off live in town. &nbsp;Check out New York or San Francisco... note any similarities? &nbsp;It's a matter of time.</p><p>
That's assuming anyone, anywhere can afford any kind of transportation relying on an internal combustion engine. &nbsp;Go to developing countries and the 'suburbs' are shanty towns where the dirt poor live encircling the comparatively well-off city-dwellers.</p>
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				<p><strong>re: Topsy Turvey: The End of the Urb</strong></p><p>Clearly this isn't a black/white, either/or situation. &nbsp;(Either gas prices are low and people move to the suburbs, gas prices rise and people move to the city -or- land prices drop so people move to the suburbs or land prices rise...) &nbsp;Clearly the real world is highly dynamic and all the article underscored was a &gt;trend&lt; - like any discernable thread in a tapestry.</p><p>
That said, what I have long noted is that the American urbs and suburbs were in the process of moving from the 1950s quintessentially American pattern -- cheap land, cheap oil, jobs &amp; poor located in cities, well-off lived in suburbs and trek in via personal automobile -- to the European model -- expensive land &amp; oil, jobs &amp; well-off located in cities, poor live in suburbs and trek in via mass transit.</p><p>
Check out the Paris suburbs ("les banlieux") where the poor live while the chic, well-off live in town. &nbsp;Check out New York or San Francisco... note any similarities? &nbsp;It's a matter of time.</p><p>
That's assuming anyone, anywhere can afford any kind of transportation relying on an internal combustion engine. &nbsp;Go to developing countries and the 'suburbs' are shanty towns where the dirt poor live encircling the comparatively well-off city-dwellers.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Solar John</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/urban/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:00:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/urban/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Oh Give Me a Home Where the Buffalo Roam</strong></p><p>I'll be happy with a couple of acres in the country. &nbsp;No matter what happens to the economy I'll still be able to grow my own food, produce my own electricity, and have peace and quiet. &nbsp;Depending on others for so much (as city dwellers do), makes me uneasy.<br>
&nbsp;</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Oh Give Me a Home Where the Buffalo Roam</strong></p><p>I'll be happy with a couple of acres in the country. &nbsp;No matter what happens to the economy I'll still be able to grow my own food, produce my own electricity, and have peace and quiet. &nbsp;Depending on others for so much (as city dwellers do), makes me uneasy.<br>
&nbsp;</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by joeburge</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/urban/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:15:34 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/urban/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Small City, Dependable job</strong></p><p>I have moved to a 1900's home in the "city" four miles from my work. &nbsp;The house might not have the amenities of a McMansion, but it is livable without Heat or AC. &nbsp;When I drive, it's a Honda Fit (38mpg). &nbsp;I've carefully made myself highly indispensable at work, just survived the first round of "lay-offs". <br>
Sure, I can't grow my own food, but who can these days? &nbsp;I have do stockpiles of food, a secure storage area, and the ability to cook without grid energy. &nbsp;I don't know what the future will bring, but it's going to be a wild ride? </br></p>
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				<p><strong>Small City, Dependable job</strong></p><p>I have moved to a 1900's home in the "city" four miles from my work. &nbsp;The house might not have the amenities of a McMansion, but it is livable without Heat or AC. &nbsp;When I drive, it's a Honda Fit (38mpg). &nbsp;I've carefully made myself highly indispensable at work, just survived the first round of "lay-offs". <br>
Sure, I can't grow my own food, but who can these days? &nbsp;I have do stockpiles of food, a secure storage area, and the ability to cook without grid energy. &nbsp;I don't know what the future will bring, but it's going to be a wild ride? </br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Island Press</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/urban/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 03:38:54 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/urban/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>An Expert Perspective on Suburbs vs.  Cities...<p>Green development consultant and land use strategist Chris Leinberger discusses the "new American Dream" of walkable cities in addition to drivable suburbs at: <a href="http://blog.islandpress.org" rel="nofollow">http://blog.islandpress.org<p>
And check out his book, The Option of Urbanism: <a href="http://islandpress.org/bookstore/details.php?isbn=9781597261364" rel="nofollow">http://islandpress.org/bookstore/details.php?isbn=9781597 ... </a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>An Expert Perspective on Suburbs vs.  Cities...<p>Green development consultant and land use strategist Chris Leinberger discusses the "new American Dream" of walkable cities in addition to drivable suburbs at: <a href="http://blog.islandpress.org" rel="nofollow">http://blog.islandpress.org<p>
And check out his book, The Option of Urbanism: <a href="http://islandpress.org/bookstore/details.php?isbn=9781597261364" rel="nofollow">http://islandpress.org/bookstore/details.php?isbn=9781597 ... </a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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