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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Thanksgiving can reconnect families and revive traditions&#8212;like sweet potato rolls]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by LinusCello</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:31:07 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Disposable pie tins?</strong></p><p>Hopefully the author has salvaged/re-used these disposable pie tins rather than buying new ones...</p><p>
Sweet Potato Everlasting Rolls <br>
Easy-to-make rolls: one more thing to be thankful for. &nbsp;...I love to make a double or even triple batch of these rolls, bake them off in "disposable pie tins," and take them around to friends and extended family on Thanksgiving morning. </br></p>
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				<p><strong>Disposable pie tins?</strong></p><p>Hopefully the author has salvaged/re-used these disposable pie tins rather than buying new ones...</p><p>
Sweet Potato Everlasting Rolls <br>
Easy-to-make rolls: one more thing to be thankful for. &nbsp;...I love to make a double or even triple batch of these rolls, bake them off in "disposable pie tins," and take them around to friends and extended family on Thanksgiving morning. </br></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by farmersdaughter</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:58:44 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>response: tins</strong></p><p>Linuscello: &nbsp;You bring up a good point. &nbsp;I should clarify. &nbsp;As a commercial baker I buy heavy duty, so-called "disposable" pie tins because I sell pies to the public. &nbsp;I ask my customers to return them to me, and I reuse them again and again. &nbsp;To avoid this issue altogether, it would be nice to bake a large batch of rolls on a sheet pan and wrap them in a tea towel to take to your friends and family. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>response: tins</strong></p><p>Linuscello: &nbsp;You bring up a good point. &nbsp;I should clarify. &nbsp;As a commercial baker I buy heavy duty, so-called "disposable" pie tins because I sell pies to the public. &nbsp;I ask my customers to return them to me, and I reuse them again and again. &nbsp;To avoid this issue altogether, it would be nice to bake a large batch of rolls on a sheet pan and wrap them in a tea towel to take to your friends and family. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by redambrosia99</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:53:33 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>pie pans</strong></p><p>For myself, I use either my dad's pie pans (which are older than me) or my glass and ceramic pie pans. &nbsp;I've found that ceramic pie pans make a better crust on pie &gt;.&gt;b</p>
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				<p><strong>pie pans</strong></p><p>For myself, I use either my dad's pie pans (which are older than me) or my glass and ceramic pie pans. &nbsp;I've found that ceramic pie pans make a better crust on pie &gt;.&gt;b</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Stephanie Ogburn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:19:17 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Family awkwardness</strong></p><p>April,</p><p>
I instantly connected with your lead description of rejecting the food (meat) of your family and the subsequent isolation that caused. I became vegetarian at a young age and was vegan for a while in college, which served to further my distancing from a family that I already felt estranged from, as I developed a worldview and political affiliations that were very distinct from theirs.</p><p>
My family and I are still very different. But I, still vegetarian, have found ways to bridge the gap by cooking for them good food that they can enjoy. Sometimes they like the food enough to learn to cook it themselves, on other occasions it is simply a food I create for them when I visit -- but some of these concoctions they have liked enough to ask me to make them when I'm around. I've also been able to connect with the older members of my family through a shared love of gardening and growing things, both edible and decorative. This exercise in finding things we share -- an appreciation for foods that taste good and flowers that are beautiful, and a love for crafting homemade foods like preserves and pickles -- has brought me closer to my grandmother, who otherwise can't understand very much about the person I am. We might not agree on politics or presidents, but we can share recipes for peach cobbler.</p><p>
It is my hope that, over the long term, I can use the beliefs and values that my family does share with me to help explain where I'm coming from in terms of the beliefs and values where we are vastly different. It will be a struggle. But food and art seem to me to be two universal spheres where human beings can connect and maybe span gaps that otherwise would be unbridgeable.</p><p>
Thanks for the post -- now I have to try the recipe!</p>
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				<p><strong>Family awkwardness</strong></p><p>April,</p><p>
I instantly connected with your lead description of rejecting the food (meat) of your family and the subsequent isolation that caused. I became vegetarian at a young age and was vegan for a while in college, which served to further my distancing from a family that I already felt estranged from, as I developed a worldview and political affiliations that were very distinct from theirs.</p><p>
My family and I are still very different. But I, still vegetarian, have found ways to bridge the gap by cooking for them good food that they can enjoy. Sometimes they like the food enough to learn to cook it themselves, on other occasions it is simply a food I create for them when I visit -- but some of these concoctions they have liked enough to ask me to make them when I'm around. I've also been able to connect with the older members of my family through a shared love of gardening and growing things, both edible and decorative. This exercise in finding things we share -- an appreciation for foods that taste good and flowers that are beautiful, and a love for crafting homemade foods like preserves and pickles -- has brought me closer to my grandmother, who otherwise can't understand very much about the person I am. We might not agree on politics or presidents, but we can share recipes for peach cobbler.</p><p>
It is my hope that, over the long term, I can use the beliefs and values that my family does share with me to help explain where I'm coming from in terms of the beliefs and values where we are vastly different. It will be a struggle. But food and art seem to me to be two universal spheres where human beings can connect and maybe span gaps that otherwise would be unbridgeable.</p><p>
Thanks for the post -- now I have to try the recipe!</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by amatthews138</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 02:36:17 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Reconnecting<p>I was so happy to read this article because I have a need for the holidays to be a time of reconnection with family and loved ones, and like most cultures, we do this through food. &nbsp;As vegetarians, April, and Stephanie in the last post, mentioned that it is possible to be vegetarian and still share food with our families, so that the focus is on great-tasting comfort food, with less focus on the lack of meat. &nbsp;I couldn't agree more and I appreciate their sharing this reminder that we can all reconnect with one another, as well as with our own values, during the holidays.<p>
I wanted to contribute an idea to this discussion. &nbsp;Many vegetarians overlook the use of dairy and eggs because, for one, we don't want to exclude ourselves from society too much, and two, we know that we are not killing the animal. I will focus, for the sake of space here, on dairy. Unfortunately, supporting the dairy industry does support the meat industry.<p>
Dairy cows would live more than 25 years naturally, but on a dairy farm, where they are forced to produce one calf per year, they are exhausted after 3 or 4 years, and are then sent to slaughter for ground beef, leather, or animal feed.<p>
Dairy cows are herbivores forced to be carnivores and receive hormone injections, the result for both being larger milk yields. &nbsp;Naturally, the mother would produce 25 pounds of milk per day at the climax of calf feeding, but are forced to produce 90 to 110 pounds of milk on a dairy farm.<p>
As soon as the calf is born, it is forcibly stolen from the mother. &nbsp;Mothers and babies of all mammals experience emotional distress from this separation. &nbsp;The mother will be inseminated on the rape rack again, the babies have a few "options".<p>
A female calf will experience the same fate as her mother. A male calf could be immediately loaded onto a truck for the veal industry, or raised for beef. &nbsp;If the demand is low in either of these industries, however, the male calf would be killed in order to extract the rennet in his stomach for making cheese.<p>
As most of the readers here are educated and informed readers, I am sure that many choose organic milk or hormone-free milk, and I am thankful that more healthful options are available. However, this of course does not stop the cycle of abuse and distress from separation that occurs for dairy cows and their babies. &nbsp;<p>
I have added this information to the discussion here because I would like to encourage the use of nondairy items in our recipes, when possible. I'm not making a radical statement that everyone should be vegan and should be ashamed if you aren't. &nbsp;But in the spirit of love for not just our own families, but all beings, give it a try, maybe once in a while.<p>
My partner and I have hosted several family holiday parties which were vegan (although we didn't call it that), and even our meat-eating conservative relatives loved our food and have insisted on eating more of it and getting recipes. &nbsp;I'm sure April's sweet potato rolls are delicious, I have no doubt she is a wonderful cook. Here is a link to a recipe for sweet potato biscuits which are nondairy, which I made throughout the holiday season last year, and were a great hit: &nbsp;<a href="http://www.recipezaar.com/Sweet-Potato-Biscuits-Vegan-104901" rel="nofollow">http://www.recipezaar.com/Sweet-Potato-Biscuits-Vegan-104 ....<p>
For peace and love during the holiday season,<br>
Amy</br></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Reconnecting<p>I was so happy to read this article because I have a need for the holidays to be a time of reconnection with family and loved ones, and like most cultures, we do this through food. &nbsp;As vegetarians, April, and Stephanie in the last post, mentioned that it is possible to be vegetarian and still share food with our families, so that the focus is on great-tasting comfort food, with less focus on the lack of meat. &nbsp;I couldn't agree more and I appreciate their sharing this reminder that we can all reconnect with one another, as well as with our own values, during the holidays.<p>
I wanted to contribute an idea to this discussion. &nbsp;Many vegetarians overlook the use of dairy and eggs because, for one, we don't want to exclude ourselves from society too much, and two, we know that we are not killing the animal. I will focus, for the sake of space here, on dairy. Unfortunately, supporting the dairy industry does support the meat industry.<p>
Dairy cows would live more than 25 years naturally, but on a dairy farm, where they are forced to produce one calf per year, they are exhausted after 3 or 4 years, and are then sent to slaughter for ground beef, leather, or animal feed.<p>
Dairy cows are herbivores forced to be carnivores and receive hormone injections, the result for both being larger milk yields. &nbsp;Naturally, the mother would produce 25 pounds of milk per day at the climax of calf feeding, but are forced to produce 90 to 110 pounds of milk on a dairy farm.<p>
As soon as the calf is born, it is forcibly stolen from the mother. &nbsp;Mothers and babies of all mammals experience emotional distress from this separation. &nbsp;The mother will be inseminated on the rape rack again, the babies have a few "options".<p>
A female calf will experience the same fate as her mother. A male calf could be immediately loaded onto a truck for the veal industry, or raised for beef. &nbsp;If the demand is low in either of these industries, however, the male calf would be killed in order to extract the rennet in his stomach for making cheese.<p>
As most of the readers here are educated and informed readers, I am sure that many choose organic milk or hormone-free milk, and I am thankful that more healthful options are available. However, this of course does not stop the cycle of abuse and distress from separation that occurs for dairy cows and their babies. &nbsp;<p>
I have added this information to the discussion here because I would like to encourage the use of nondairy items in our recipes, when possible. I'm not making a radical statement that everyone should be vegan and should be ashamed if you aren't. &nbsp;But in the spirit of love for not just our own families, but all beings, give it a try, maybe once in a while.<p>
My partner and I have hosted several family holiday parties which were vegan (although we didn't call it that), and even our meat-eating conservative relatives loved our food and have insisted on eating more of it and getting recipes. &nbsp;I'm sure April's sweet potato rolls are delicious, I have no doubt she is a wonderful cook. Here is a link to a recipe for sweet potato biscuits which are nondairy, which I made throughout the holiday season last year, and were a great hit: &nbsp;<a href="http://www.recipezaar.com/Sweet-Potato-Biscuits-Vegan-104901" rel="nofollow">http://www.recipezaar.com/Sweet-Potato-Biscuits-Vegan-104 ....<p>
For peace and love during the holiday season,<br>
Amy</br></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:13:01 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>kinship, alienation</strong></p><p>"Sacrament" and "poison" are strong words -- it is probably not very often that an actual divinization, or murder, takes place at a Thanksgiving dinnertable. &nbsp;But Prentice and Casey are certainly right to observe that on such occasions, much can happen, for good or for ill, of great importance to how we get on with people who might be of uncertain closeness to us.</p><p>
The verb "to reconnect" sounds rather cheap, prosaic and quick in this context. &nbsp;It is what you do when the coffee pot's plug gets bumped and falls out of its socket. &nbsp;E.M. Forster, one of my favorite writers, was indulging in a gnomic, vatic concision that we should not too readily try to imitate, when he made for his great novel "Howard's End" the epigraph and moral, "Only connect!" &nbsp;The resumption of old conversations with distant loved ones, whom a happy occasion has gathered together with us, is a truly beautiful and precious thing, and deserves a better word than "reconnect."</p><p>
And as for "traditions," they deserve to be sent to hell, if they are clung to merely through fear, or laziness, or a desire to control. &nbsp;Certainly that Thanksgiving dinnertable will not be cultivating true "kinship," if a vegetarian/vegan is made to feel trapped, with no friend or ally, in a bitter dilemma: either eat the flesh of an unjustly slaughtered fellow sentient creature, or insult the company.</p><p>
Thanks, April, for being a peacemaker ("Blessed are the peacemakers ... "), and for those mightily happy-sounding recipes.</p><p>
And thanks, Amy Matthews, for reminding us that there are few sentient creatures who suffer as much injustice as dairy cows.</p>
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				<p><strong>kinship, alienation</strong></p><p>"Sacrament" and "poison" are strong words -- it is probably not very often that an actual divinization, or murder, takes place at a Thanksgiving dinnertable. &nbsp;But Prentice and Casey are certainly right to observe that on such occasions, much can happen, for good or for ill, of great importance to how we get on with people who might be of uncertain closeness to us.</p><p>
The verb "to reconnect" sounds rather cheap, prosaic and quick in this context. &nbsp;It is what you do when the coffee pot's plug gets bumped and falls out of its socket. &nbsp;E.M. Forster, one of my favorite writers, was indulging in a gnomic, vatic concision that we should not too readily try to imitate, when he made for his great novel "Howard's End" the epigraph and moral, "Only connect!" &nbsp;The resumption of old conversations with distant loved ones, whom a happy occasion has gathered together with us, is a truly beautiful and precious thing, and deserves a better word than "reconnect."</p><p>
And as for "traditions," they deserve to be sent to hell, if they are clung to merely through fear, or laziness, or a desire to control. &nbsp;Certainly that Thanksgiving dinnertable will not be cultivating true "kinship," if a vegetarian/vegan is made to feel trapped, with no friend or ally, in a bitter dilemma: either eat the flesh of an unjustly slaughtered fellow sentient creature, or insult the company.</p><p>
Thanks, April, for being a peacemaker ("Blessed are the peacemakers ... "), and for those mightily happy-sounding recipes.</p><p>
And thanks, Amy Matthews, for reminding us that there are few sentient creatures who suffer as much injustice as dairy cows.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by farmersdaughter</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:32:03 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Reverent, Occasional  Meat Eater<p>Just to be clear, I am no longer vegetarian. &nbsp;I still have a vegetable-centered diet, but I do occasionally eat meat. &nbsp;I think it is very important that when we are highlighting the abuses done to dairy cows and all animals in our industrial food system, that we point out that their are alternatives other than becoming a vegan. There is a significant increase in availability of farmstead cheeses, butter, and yogurt across the country from cows who are respected, well-treated, and graze on pasture. The same is true of pigs and chickens and turkeys. &nbsp; I had a conversation with Don Bixby of <a href="http://www.albc-usa.org/" rel="nofollow">The American Livestock Breeds Conservancy a few years ago. &nbsp;He said that in order to save heritage breeds of livestock, they need a job. &nbsp;If that job is feeding us, then we both benefit. I am a firm supporter of the <a href="http://www.slowfood.it/sloweb/ita/dettaglio.lasso?cod=3E6E345B1689429E75pXX2A16D13" rel="nofollow">"Eat it to Save it" <a href="http://www.slowfoodusa.org/index.php/programs/details/raft/" rel="nofollow">Movement. &nbsp; <p>
I have bridged the gap in my family by offering to bring the turkey for our Thanksgiving celebration, which is a heritage breed that is allowed to eat bugs and grass and run around in plenty of space. I also located a country ham from a pastured heritage breed pig for our Christmas celebration, from an artisan ham curer. My family thinks these foods taste "the way food used to," and this leads to discussion on the failings of industrial agriculture. &nbsp;<p>
In my family, there is great reverence for the pig. &nbsp;As sustenance farmers in harsh Appalachian winters, cured pork, kraut, dried beans, and dried corn made up the whole of the diet of my ancestors. &nbsp;Pork was not only used for meat, but also as the primary source of fat, necessary for survival.<p>
My husband and I both began to eat animal products again about 5 years ago when we became <a href="http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/downloads/soymyths.pdf" rel="nofollow">concerned &nbsp;about our dependence on modern soy products and wanted to shift our diet dependence to locally grown and small-scale food production. &nbsp;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</br></a></p></p></p></a></a></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Reverent, Occasional  Meat Eater<p>Just to be clear, I am no longer vegetarian. &nbsp;I still have a vegetable-centered diet, but I do occasionally eat meat. &nbsp;I think it is very important that when we are highlighting the abuses done to dairy cows and all animals in our industrial food system, that we point out that their are alternatives other than becoming a vegan. There is a significant increase in availability of farmstead cheeses, butter, and yogurt across the country from cows who are respected, well-treated, and graze on pasture. The same is true of pigs and chickens and turkeys. &nbsp; I had a conversation with Don Bixby of <a href="http://www.albc-usa.org/" rel="nofollow">The American Livestock Breeds Conservancy a few years ago. &nbsp;He said that in order to save heritage breeds of livestock, they need a job. &nbsp;If that job is feeding us, then we both benefit. I am a firm supporter of the <a href="http://www.slowfood.it/sloweb/ita/dettaglio.lasso?cod=3E6E345B1689429E75pXX2A16D13" rel="nofollow">"Eat it to Save it" <a href="http://www.slowfoodusa.org/index.php/programs/details/raft/" rel="nofollow">Movement. &nbsp; <p>
I have bridged the gap in my family by offering to bring the turkey for our Thanksgiving celebration, which is a heritage breed that is allowed to eat bugs and grass and run around in plenty of space. I also located a country ham from a pastured heritage breed pig for our Christmas celebration, from an artisan ham curer. My family thinks these foods taste "the way food used to," and this leads to discussion on the failings of industrial agriculture. &nbsp;<p>
In my family, there is great reverence for the pig. &nbsp;As sustenance farmers in harsh Appalachian winters, cured pork, kraut, dried beans, and dried corn made up the whole of the diet of my ancestors. &nbsp;Pork was not only used for meat, but also as the primary source of fat, necessary for survival.<p>
My husband and I both began to eat animal products again about 5 years ago when we became <a href="http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/downloads/soymyths.pdf" rel="nofollow">concerned &nbsp;about our dependence on modern soy products and wanted to shift our diet dependence to locally grown and small-scale food production. &nbsp;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</br></a></p></p></p></a></a></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by vstross</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:45:52 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Re: Reverent, Occasional Meat Eater </strong></p><p>@farmersdaughter said:</p><p>
"There is a significant increase in availability of farmstead cheeses, butter, and yogurt across the country from cows who are respected, well-treated, and graze on pasture. The same is true of pigs and chickens and turkeys."</p><p>
While becoming vegan/vegetarian has a LOT to do with the treatment of the animals, this choice is equally related to resource issues. Spreading the idea of farmstead products only INCREASES the amount of resources required to sustain a growing population of humans demanding these products. The reason factory-farming grew so fast is because it requires less resources. This issue is much bigger than the middle-class farmstead Thanksgiving - there are 6 billion people eating animals - what happens if they demand their animal products from suppliers who require more resources to produce them?</p><p>
If you WERE vegetarian and justified your switch by choosing a MORE resource-intensive option, then you were never really a vegetarian.. just a rebellious trendy middle class American.</p>
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				<p><strong>Re: Reverent, Occasional Meat Eater </strong></p><p>@farmersdaughter said:</p><p>
"There is a significant increase in availability of farmstead cheeses, butter, and yogurt across the country from cows who are respected, well-treated, and graze on pasture. The same is true of pigs and chickens and turkeys."</p><p>
While becoming vegan/vegetarian has a LOT to do with the treatment of the animals, this choice is equally related to resource issues. Spreading the idea of farmstead products only INCREASES the amount of resources required to sustain a growing population of humans demanding these products. The reason factory-farming grew so fast is because it requires less resources. This issue is much bigger than the middle-class farmstead Thanksgiving - there are 6 billion people eating animals - what happens if they demand their animal products from suppliers who require more resources to produce them?</p><p>
If you WERE vegetarian and justified your switch by choosing a MORE resource-intensive option, then you were never really a vegetarian.. just a rebellious trendy middle class American.</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by pblank</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 03:05:10 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>conviviality</strong></p><p>Vstross,<br>
I'll avoid your comments that were meant to be hurtful because I sincerely want to dialogue with you- what is your thanksgiving like? Are there people there from different generations/cultures? How do you relate to them? Good things? Bad things? Memories? </p><p>
I'm not trying to be snarky, but I'm trying to figure out how progressives see and experience conviviality at the table in these times. </p><p>
P</br></p>
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				<p><strong>conviviality</strong></p><p>Vstross,<br>
I'll avoid your comments that were meant to be hurtful because I sincerely want to dialogue with you- what is your thanksgiving like? Are there people there from different generations/cultures? How do you relate to them? Good things? Bad things? Memories? </p><p>
I'm not trying to be snarky, but I'm trying to figure out how progressives see and experience conviviality at the table in these times. </p><p>
P</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by rprice</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:22:28 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Food and Kinship</strong></p><p>April, your Grist article was great, as always. I was moved and made homesick for southern Mississippi by the food and kinship quote... "Whatever increases our sense of kinship is sacrament and nutritious food. Whatever increases our sense of alienation is poison."</p><p>
Up here, in Bellingham, Washington, everyone seems to define themselves based on what they WON'T eat (e.g. "I don't DO wheat/dairy/gluten/sugar/etc."), and it is truly alienating. Potlucks become a competition over who can bring the most politically correct dish, instead of a sharing of each person's favorite recipe... </p><p>
In a town where most everyone is a transplant rather than a native, it's a shame that we know more about our neighbors through what they have come to reject or eliminate from their lives, than from the pieces of their own culture they could have brought into our little community.</p><p>
I've written off those self-righteous potlucks completely and made an appreciation for bacon one of my tests for true friendship. You can't be too picky around here!!!<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Food and Kinship</strong></p><p>April, your Grist article was great, as always. I was moved and made homesick for southern Mississippi by the food and kinship quote... "Whatever increases our sense of kinship is sacrament and nutritious food. Whatever increases our sense of alienation is poison."</p><p>
Up here, in Bellingham, Washington, everyone seems to define themselves based on what they WON'T eat (e.g. "I don't DO wheat/dairy/gluten/sugar/etc."), and it is truly alienating. Potlucks become a competition over who can bring the most politically correct dish, instead of a sharing of each person's favorite recipe... </p><p>
In a town where most everyone is a transplant rather than a native, it's a shame that we know more about our neighbors through what they have come to reject or eliminate from their lives, than from the pieces of their own culture they could have brought into our little community.</p><p>
I've written off those self-righteous potlucks completely and made an appreciation for bacon one of my tests for true friendship. You can't be too picky around here!!!<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by ginger root</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:40:26 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>Question?!?!</strong></p><p>Has anyone had trouble with the dough rising in the refrigerator? I followed the directions with the starter, and then made the dough and put it immediately in the fridge to rise overnight, but it hasn't risen at all. Perhaps my fridge is too cold. </p><p>
This morning I kneaded in some extra yeast, and have put the dough in a warmish place to rise. Hopefully this will help. </p><p>
Was the dough supposed to rise very much in the fridge? Like double in size? Has anyone else had a problem? Please respond!</p>
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				<p><strong>Question?!?!</strong></p><p>Has anyone had trouble with the dough rising in the refrigerator? I followed the directions with the starter, and then made the dough and put it immediately in the fridge to rise overnight, but it hasn't risen at all. Perhaps my fridge is too cold. </p><p>
This morning I kneaded in some extra yeast, and have put the dough in a warmish place to rise. Hopefully this will help. </p><p>
Was the dough supposed to rise very much in the fridge? Like double in size? Has anyone else had a problem? Please respond!</p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by farmersdaughter</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:29:46 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>rising problem</strong></p><p>So long as your yeast was good and you didn't kill it by exposing it to too hot a temperature (not above 100 degrees or so), your dough should have risen some in the refrigerator -- though probably not double in 8 hours. &nbsp;At cold temperatures, yeast dough rises slowly, but it does rise. &nbsp;When you bring your dough out to room temperature it will warm up and rise more rapidly. &nbsp;Kneading in extra yeast won't hurt your dough so you should still be fine. &nbsp;If you cut the sugar in the dough, it will also rise more slowly. &nbsp;Hope this helps. &nbsp; &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>rising problem</strong></p><p>So long as your yeast was good and you didn't kill it by exposing it to too hot a temperature (not above 100 degrees or so), your dough should have risen some in the refrigerator -- though probably not double in 8 hours. &nbsp;At cold temperatures, yeast dough rises slowly, but it does rise. &nbsp;When you bring your dough out to room temperature it will warm up and rise more rapidly. &nbsp;Kneading in extra yeast won't hurt your dough so you should still be fine. &nbsp;If you cut the sugar in the dough, it will also rise more slowly. &nbsp;Hope this helps. &nbsp; &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by farmersdaughter</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:37:52 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/13</guid>
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				<p><strong>rising problem, part 2</strong></p><p>Another point I should mention is that you are not only relying on the yeast in this recipe. &nbsp;You also have baking powder and soda as leaveners. &nbsp;That said the dough should still rise, just not as much or as fast as say, baguette or pizza dough. &nbsp; </p>
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				<p><strong>rising problem, part 2</strong></p><p>Another point I should mention is that you are not only relying on the yeast in this recipe. &nbsp;You also have baking powder and soda as leaveners. &nbsp;That said the dough should still rise, just not as much or as fast as say, baguette or pizza dough. &nbsp; </p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by ginger root</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:07:37 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/14</guid>
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				<p><strong>rising problem resolved</strong></p><p>okay, they turned out, and just in time for thanksgiving dinner! thanks for the awesome recipe, i only used half the dough, and might make cinnamon rolls with the leftover tomorrow, yum....</p>
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				<p><strong>rising problem resolved</strong></p><p>okay, they turned out, and just in time for thanksgiving dinner! thanks for the awesome recipe, i only used half the dough, and might make cinnamon rolls with the leftover tomorrow, yum....</p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by farmersdaughter</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 03:09:45 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/together-at-the-table1/15</guid>
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				<p><strong>Industrial vs. Sustainable Agriculture<p>vtross,<p>
Although I would like to focus more on cultivating food fellowship than debating diets or agricultural systems, I would like to counter your assertion that small scale sustainable agriculture is more resource-intensive. &nbsp;While it is true that CAFOs produce animal protein faster than pasture, it is not without tremendous costs and input resources. <br>
"It's a myth that the world can't produce enough food from sustainable, local food systems for its population -- just like it's a myth that hunger and starvation are based on world food shortages, when the truth is hunger is based on poverty and the inequities and economies of food distribution." -- Jules Pretty, professor and director for the Centre for Environment and Society at the University of Essex in England<br>
Read the whole article from Acres USA:<br>
<a href="http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/reprints/Indust%20vs%20sustain_dec03.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/reprints/Indust%20vs%20su ... </a></br></br></br></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Industrial vs. Sustainable Agriculture<p>vtross,<p>
Although I would like to focus more on cultivating food fellowship than debating diets or agricultural systems, I would like to counter your assertion that small scale sustainable agriculture is more resource-intensive. &nbsp;While it is true that CAFOs produce animal protein faster than pasture, it is not without tremendous costs and input resources. <br>
"It's a myth that the world can't produce enough food from sustainable, local food systems for its population -- just like it's a myth that hunger and starvation are based on world food shortages, when the truth is hunger is based on poverty and the inequities and economies of food distribution." -- Jules Pretty, professor and director for the Centre for Environment and Society at the University of Essex in England<br>
Read the whole article from Acres USA:<br>
<a href="http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/reprints/Indust%20vs%20sustain_dec03.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/reprints/Indust%20vs%20su ... </a></br></br></br></p></p></strong></p>
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