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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Agriculture is drunk on corn-based ethanol]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by justlou</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:37:15 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Environmental Working Group Report<p>EWG did a very good study related to this post:<p>
'Trouble Downstream: Upgrading Conservation Compliance'<br>
<a href="http://www.ewg.org/reports/compliance" rel="nofollow">http://www.ewg.org/reports/compliance<p>
Among the findings:<br>
*The standards only apply to Highly Erodible Land (HEL) which leaves out a large percentage of lands still subject to erosion.<p>
*Standards are very flexible.<p>
*Monitoring is incredibly limited to less than 1% of the HEL lands.<p>
*Monitoring is very lax in finding only about 2% of lands out of compliance.<p>
*Of those 2% out of compliance of the less than 1% monitored, about 80% of these are overturned during appeals. &nbsp;<p>
Bottom line is that we cannot expect the USDA to set any meaningful standards or even enforce the weak ones in place. &nbsp;There have been so few enforcement applications that the "stick" of losing farm subsidy payments for lack of compliance is a tremendous joke. &nbsp;<p>
The high costs of farming, and the high cost of fuel along with technological improvements in farm machinery and tillage equipment have done far more to reduce soil erosion than any regulations coming out of Washington. I don't think we should let the farmers off the hook on this for there are serious soil erosion and water degradation problems remaining. &nbsp;But unless we make a serious stab at reforming the federal agencies (USDA, NRCS, FSA) responsible for setting standards, monitoring, and enforcing, these agencies will continue to effectively look the other way as farmers do what ever the hell they want to, continue to suck the public teat, and scream like hell if government attempts to get serious about regulating the farm industry.</p></p></p></p></p></p></br></p></a></br></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Environmental Working Group Report<p>EWG did a very good study related to this post:<p>
'Trouble Downstream: Upgrading Conservation Compliance'<br>
<a href="http://www.ewg.org/reports/compliance" rel="nofollow">http://www.ewg.org/reports/compliance<p>
Among the findings:<br>
*The standards only apply to Highly Erodible Land (HEL) which leaves out a large percentage of lands still subject to erosion.<p>
*Standards are very flexible.<p>
*Monitoring is incredibly limited to less than 1% of the HEL lands.<p>
*Monitoring is very lax in finding only about 2% of lands out of compliance.<p>
*Of those 2% out of compliance of the less than 1% monitored, about 80% of these are overturned during appeals. &nbsp;<p>
Bottom line is that we cannot expect the USDA to set any meaningful standards or even enforce the weak ones in place. &nbsp;There have been so few enforcement applications that the "stick" of losing farm subsidy payments for lack of compliance is a tremendous joke. &nbsp;<p>
The high costs of farming, and the high cost of fuel along with technological improvements in farm machinery and tillage equipment have done far more to reduce soil erosion than any regulations coming out of Washington. I don't think we should let the farmers off the hook on this for there are serious soil erosion and water degradation problems remaining. &nbsp;But unless we make a serious stab at reforming the federal agencies (USDA, NRCS, FSA) responsible for setting standards, monitoring, and enforcing, these agencies will continue to effectively look the other way as farmers do what ever the hell they want to, continue to suck the public teat, and scream like hell if government attempts to get serious about regulating the farm industry.</p></p></p></p></p></p></br></p></a></br></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:56:56 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Greetings, Professor Dobbs!<p>I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the situation. As I am sure you already know, the EU's cross-compliance regulations also include standards for crop rotations.<p>
You cite the The Economist magazine as saying that Federal subsidies for ethanol production already come to over $7 billion a year. Actually, The Economist was itself quoting our study, "<a href="http://www.globalsubsidies.org/article.php3?id_article=40&amp;var_mode=calcul" rel="nofollow">Biofuels--At What Cost? Government Support for Ethanol and Biodiesel in the United States - 2007 Update" (Geneva: Global Subsidies Initiative of the International Institute for Sustainable Development), which can be downloaded from our website for free. The previous year's study can be found <a href="http://www.globalsubsidies.org/article.php3?id_article=6&amp;var_mode=calcul" rel="nofollow">here.<p>
And the estimate includes some (as much as we could count) state-level subsidies, as well as federal subsidies.</p></a></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Greetings, Professor Dobbs!<p>I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the situation. As I am sure you already know, the EU's cross-compliance regulations also include standards for crop rotations.<p>
You cite the The Economist magazine as saying that Federal subsidies for ethanol production already come to over $7 billion a year. Actually, The Economist was itself quoting our study, "<a href="http://www.globalsubsidies.org/article.php3?id_article=40&amp;var_mode=calcul" rel="nofollow">Biofuels--At What Cost? Government Support for Ethanol and Biodiesel in the United States - 2007 Update" (Geneva: Global Subsidies Initiative of the International Institute for Sustainable Development), which can be downloaded from our website for free. The previous year's study can be found <a href="http://www.globalsubsidies.org/article.php3?id_article=6&amp;var_mode=calcul" rel="nofollow">here.<p>
And the estimate includes some (as much as we could count) state-level subsidies, as well as federal subsidies.</p></a></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Thomas Dobbs</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:19:54 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Biofuels, at what cost?</strong></p><p>Thanks for calling the original source of The Economist's data in this regard to my attention and to Gristmill's readers. Yes, having spent a good deal of time in Europe the last several years, I am familiar with the CAP cross-compliance regulations, but thanks for making that connection.</p><p>
Tom

<p>Thomas L. Dobbs
Professor Emeritus of Economics, South Dakota State University, and W.K. Kellogg Foundation Food &amp; Society Policy Fellow

</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Biofuels, at what cost?</strong></p><p>Thanks for calling the original source of The Economist's data in this regard to my attention and to Gristmill's readers. Yes, having spent a good deal of time in Europe the last several years, I am familiar with the CAP cross-compliance regulations, but thanks for making that connection.</p><p>
Tom

<p>Thomas L. Dobbs
Professor Emeritus of Economics, South Dakota State University, and W.K. Kellogg Foundation Food &amp; Society Policy Fellow

</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Thomas Dobbs</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:24:46 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Enforcement of conservation cross-compliance reg's</strong></p><p>Your points are all well taken. But we can't just give up on cross-compliance, at least so long as the commodity subsidy system remains in place--as it will for at least this next farm bill. And we need to add new restrictions, particularly with respect to continuous cropping of a crop like corn.</p><p>
Tom

<p>Thomas L. Dobbs
Professor Emeritus of Economics, South Dakota State University, and W.K. Kellogg Foundation Food &amp; Society Policy Fellow

</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Enforcement of conservation cross-compliance reg's</strong></p><p>Your points are all well taken. But we can't just give up on cross-compliance, at least so long as the commodity subsidy system remains in place--as it will for at least this next farm bill. And we need to add new restrictions, particularly with respect to continuous cropping of a crop like corn.</p><p>
Tom

<p>Thomas L. Dobbs
Professor Emeritus of Economics, South Dakota State University, and W.K. Kellogg Foundation Food &amp; Society Policy Fellow

</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Sam Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:25:37 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Great post</strong></p><p>Many folks also miss the subtext that Democrats wished to balance any increase in subsidies with increases in taxes, a process known as "Pay-Go" ... all of which Bush has vetoed because he doesn't like taxes. &nbsp;So, for what, 7 billion or whatever in handouts, the President just added perhaps 14 billion in debt. &nbsp;Whoops, was the pork left in the Farm Bill as well? &nbsp;Great going, Prez!</p><p>
That's in direct cash, baby, and few people have taken a close look at indirect costs of soil erosion and downstream water pollution. &nbsp;Many of the secondary-tier impact studies such as UN and EU focussed on negative impacts in terms of less protein per capita in developing countries (cost margin and avoidance method). &nbsp;But I can also say, that because of the same policies, the price of tortillas in Mexico have nearly tripled. &nbsp;Whoa, that's considered a developed country, isn't it?</p><p>
I'm surprised there aren't riots in the streets.

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Great post</strong></p><p>Many folks also miss the subtext that Democrats wished to balance any increase in subsidies with increases in taxes, a process known as "Pay-Go" ... all of which Bush has vetoed because he doesn't like taxes. &nbsp;So, for what, 7 billion or whatever in handouts, the President just added perhaps 14 billion in debt. &nbsp;Whoops, was the pork left in the Farm Bill as well? &nbsp;Great going, Prez!</p><p>
That's in direct cash, baby, and few people have taken a close look at indirect costs of soil erosion and downstream water pollution. &nbsp;Many of the secondary-tier impact studies such as UN and EU focussed on negative impacts in terms of less protein per capita in developing countries (cost margin and avoidance method). &nbsp;But I can also say, that because of the same policies, the price of tortillas in Mexico have nearly tripled. &nbsp;Whoa, that's considered a developed country, isn't it?</p><p>
I'm surprised there aren't riots in the streets.

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 03:05:54 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>On food riots<p>Sammie writes, "I'm surprised there aren't riots in the streets." Ah, but there have been. As described in <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/nov/03/food.climatechange" rel="nofollow">this article in The Guardian:<p>
Record world prices for most staple foods have led to 18% food price inflation in China, 13% in Indonesia and Pakistan, and 10% or more in Latin America, Russia and India, according to the UN Food and Agricultural Organisation (FAO). Wheat has doubled in price, maize is nearly 50% higher than a year ago and rice is 20% more expensive, says the UN. Next week the FAO is expected to say that global food reserves are at their lowest in 25 years and that prices will remain high for years. <p>
Last week the Kremlin forced Russian companies to freeze the price of milk, bread and other foods until January 31, for fear of a public backlash with a parliamentary election looming. "The price of goods has risen sharply and that has hit the poor particularly hard," said Oleg Savelyev, of the Levada Centre polling institute.<p>
India [West Bengal State], Yemen, Mexico, Burkina Faso and several other countries [e.g., Burma], have had, or been close to, food riots in the last year, something not seen in decades of low global food commodity prices. Meanwhile, there are shortages of beef, chicken and milk in Venezuela and other countries as governments try to keep a lid on food price inflation.<p>
There have also been street protests in Italy (over the price of pasta), and shoppers' riots in China, <a href="http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/food-riot/2007/11/16/" rel="nofollow">in one case recently leading to several people being crushed to death:<p>
" ... this past Saturday in Chongqing," reports the New York Times, "people began lining up before dawn when a Carrefour store offered a discount on large jugs of cooking oil, an essential for a lot of Chinese cooking. When the doors opened, a stampede ensued, killing 3 people and injuring 31. China's commerce ministry responded on Monday by ordering a ban on limited-time sales promotions."</p></a></p></p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>On food riots<p>Sammie writes, "I'm surprised there aren't riots in the streets." Ah, but there have been. As described in <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/nov/03/food.climatechange" rel="nofollow">this article in The Guardian:<p>
Record world prices for most staple foods have led to 18% food price inflation in China, 13% in Indonesia and Pakistan, and 10% or more in Latin America, Russia and India, according to the UN Food and Agricultural Organisation (FAO). Wheat has doubled in price, maize is nearly 50% higher than a year ago and rice is 20% more expensive, says the UN. Next week the FAO is expected to say that global food reserves are at their lowest in 25 years and that prices will remain high for years. <p>
Last week the Kremlin forced Russian companies to freeze the price of milk, bread and other foods until January 31, for fear of a public backlash with a parliamentary election looming. "The price of goods has risen sharply and that has hit the poor particularly hard," said Oleg Savelyev, of the Levada Centre polling institute.<p>
India [West Bengal State], Yemen, Mexico, Burkina Faso and several other countries [e.g., Burma], have had, or been close to, food riots in the last year, something not seen in decades of low global food commodity prices. Meanwhile, there are shortages of beef, chicken and milk in Venezuela and other countries as governments try to keep a lid on food price inflation.<p>
There have also been street protests in Italy (over the price of pasta), and shoppers' riots in China, <a href="http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/food-riot/2007/11/16/" rel="nofollow">in one case recently leading to several people being crushed to death:<p>
" ... this past Saturday in Chongqing," reports the New York Times, "people began lining up before dawn when a Carrefour store offered a discount on large jugs of cooking oil, an essential for a lot of Chinese cooking. When the doors opened, a stampede ensued, killing 3 people and injuring 31. China's commerce ministry responded on Monday by ordering a ban on limited-time sales promotions."</p></a></p></p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by justlou</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:15:51 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Re: Tom, regulations</strong></p><p>"we need to add new restrictions, particularly with respect to continuous cropping of a crop like corn."</p><p>
Tom, I'm pretty certain your proposal would not help much. &nbsp;</p><p>
For one, farmers need to adapt to markets with more cropping flexibility than this kind of regulation would permit. &nbsp;If the markets are screwed up due to ethanol subsidies, we need to attack that at the source. &nbsp;</p><p>
Second, from strictly a soil erosion perspective, continuous corn, coupled with minimum tillage, probably results in less soil erosion than a corn/soy rotation which leaves far less protective soil cover following soybeans. &nbsp;More nitrogen fertilizer is needed in a continuous corn system so there does remain the chance for higher nitrogen runoff and drainage into waterways. &nbsp;</p><p>
Lastly, the more I learn about how poorly current regulations are being administered I question whether adding more regulations would be effective. &nbsp;Of course, the Bush administration has done every thing it can to undermine the authority of many agencies and it would require a concerted effort to restore them to a meaningful level of functionality. &nbsp;But, I have also had first hand experience with some of these agencies and find that they are extremely ossified by rigid bureaucracy and turf battles among competing agencies. &nbsp;I am not at all certain that it is worth attempting to reform them. &nbsp;</p><p>
If we do not recognize that Washington is a huge part of our troubles and keep looking in that direction to solve many of our problems we will continue to be deeply disappointed. &nbsp;In this respect I can relate to conservative, small governmnent arguments. &nbsp;But they use this argument to undermine agency authority to suit their interests. &nbsp;Perhaps we do need to think about streamlining government to boost agency authority to better suit our interests. &nbsp;Is it any wonder that this was one of Al Gore's primary efforts while he was vice president? &nbsp;There are big elements of federal and state government that should get the deep six while transfering their wasted capital to the areas that need strengthening. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>Re: Tom, regulations</strong></p><p>"we need to add new restrictions, particularly with respect to continuous cropping of a crop like corn."</p><p>
Tom, I'm pretty certain your proposal would not help much. &nbsp;</p><p>
For one, farmers need to adapt to markets with more cropping flexibility than this kind of regulation would permit. &nbsp;If the markets are screwed up due to ethanol subsidies, we need to attack that at the source. &nbsp;</p><p>
Second, from strictly a soil erosion perspective, continuous corn, coupled with minimum tillage, probably results in less soil erosion than a corn/soy rotation which leaves far less protective soil cover following soybeans. &nbsp;More nitrogen fertilizer is needed in a continuous corn system so there does remain the chance for higher nitrogen runoff and drainage into waterways. &nbsp;</p><p>
Lastly, the more I learn about how poorly current regulations are being administered I question whether adding more regulations would be effective. &nbsp;Of course, the Bush administration has done every thing it can to undermine the authority of many agencies and it would require a concerted effort to restore them to a meaningful level of functionality. &nbsp;But, I have also had first hand experience with some of these agencies and find that they are extremely ossified by rigid bureaucracy and turf battles among competing agencies. &nbsp;I am not at all certain that it is worth attempting to reform them. &nbsp;</p><p>
If we do not recognize that Washington is a huge part of our troubles and keep looking in that direction to solve many of our problems we will continue to be deeply disappointed. &nbsp;In this respect I can relate to conservative, small governmnent arguments. &nbsp;But they use this argument to undermine agency authority to suit their interests. &nbsp;Perhaps we do need to think about streamlining government to boost agency authority to better suit our interests. &nbsp;Is it any wonder that this was one of Al Gore's primary efforts while he was vice president? &nbsp;There are big elements of federal and state government that should get the deep six while transfering their wasted capital to the areas that need strengthening. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Thomas Dobbs</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:12:48 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/time-for-some-rehab/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>More on conservation compliance regulations</strong></p><p>Of course, if there is no enforcement, it won't make any difference what the cross-compliance regulations are. "Justlou" suggests that maybe "small government" is a better way to go, rather than add more reg's. But we don't have "small government" when we have the Federal government poring out billions of dollars every year under the farm commodity programs. As long as that kind of "big government" continues, it is imperative that the public insist on reasonable conservation in return. The 1985 Federal farm bill was the breakthrough policy legislation in that regard. As the EWG report points out, there are a lot of problems with meaningful enforcement of the conservation compliance reg's at this time. But the solution is not to abandon the cross-compliance reg's, but to strengthen them and put in place an Executive branch that really wants to enforce them. With the current President, there is probably not much hope of meaningful enforcement of environmental reg's in agriculture or any other sector.</p><p>
A cross-compliance regulation prohibiting continuous corn would actually be fairly easy to enforce, if there is government will. Every farm receiving commodity subsidies should be required to file a rotation plan. Obviously, weather and market conditions necessitate some flexibility when it comes planting time. But unlimited flexibility should not be allowed: back-to-back planting of corn on the same field should not be allowed. Farmers would be required to report what is planted on each field, and spot checks could be done to monitor for violations of this corn-following-corn prohibition.</p><p>
I don't like to be put in the position of defending the Midwest's corn/soybean rotation. As I said in my post, this is not much of a rotation (from an ecological perspective), but it does beat continuous corn. I don't believe I' ve ever met an agronomist who would advocate continuous corn over a corn/soybean rotation--from an ecological perspective--except possibly some agronomists with vested interests, such as ones working for GM seed and chemcal input industries. Yes, continuous corn does excist as a production practice, propped up by GM seeds and other technologies. But ecology and history tell us that agriculture based on monoculture usually is not sustainable. Insect and weed resistances build up, requiring ever more exotic chemicals, genetic engineering, etc. It's a great game for those industries and researchers who make their living by trying to keep ahead of nature. But, ultimately, it is a game that can not be won. In the long run, nature wins out and demands biodiversity.</p><p>
I think we need a national conversation about what kinds of rotations, generally, should be allowed for farmers receiving commodity subsidies. Corn-following-corn should just be the start of that conversation. Probably soybeans-following-soybeans should not be allowed, either.</p><p>
Let the conversation begin. What about other crop systems across the country?</p><p>
Tom

<p>Thomas L. Dobbs
Professor Emeritus of Economics, South Dakota State University, and W.K. Kellogg Foundation Food &amp; Society Policy Fellow

</p></p>
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				<p><strong>More on conservation compliance regulations</strong></p><p>Of course, if there is no enforcement, it won't make any difference what the cross-compliance regulations are. "Justlou" suggests that maybe "small government" is a better way to go, rather than add more reg's. But we don't have "small government" when we have the Federal government poring out billions of dollars every year under the farm commodity programs. As long as that kind of "big government" continues, it is imperative that the public insist on reasonable conservation in return. The 1985 Federal farm bill was the breakthrough policy legislation in that regard. As the EWG report points out, there are a lot of problems with meaningful enforcement of the conservation compliance reg's at this time. But the solution is not to abandon the cross-compliance reg's, but to strengthen them and put in place an Executive branch that really wants to enforce them. With the current President, there is probably not much hope of meaningful enforcement of environmental reg's in agriculture or any other sector.</p><p>
A cross-compliance regulation prohibiting continuous corn would actually be fairly easy to enforce, if there is government will. Every farm receiving commodity subsidies should be required to file a rotation plan. Obviously, weather and market conditions necessitate some flexibility when it comes planting time. But unlimited flexibility should not be allowed: back-to-back planting of corn on the same field should not be allowed. Farmers would be required to report what is planted on each field, and spot checks could be done to monitor for violations of this corn-following-corn prohibition.</p><p>
I don't like to be put in the position of defending the Midwest's corn/soybean rotation. As I said in my post, this is not much of a rotation (from an ecological perspective), but it does beat continuous corn. I don't believe I' ve ever met an agronomist who would advocate continuous corn over a corn/soybean rotation--from an ecological perspective--except possibly some agronomists with vested interests, such as ones working for GM seed and chemcal input industries. Yes, continuous corn does excist as a production practice, propped up by GM seeds and other technologies. But ecology and history tell us that agriculture based on monoculture usually is not sustainable. Insect and weed resistances build up, requiring ever more exotic chemicals, genetic engineering, etc. It's a great game for those industries and researchers who make their living by trying to keep ahead of nature. But, ultimately, it is a game that can not be won. In the long run, nature wins out and demands biodiversity.</p><p>
I think we need a national conversation about what kinds of rotations, generally, should be allowed for farmers receiving commodity subsidies. Corn-following-corn should just be the start of that conversation. Probably soybeans-following-soybeans should not be allowed, either.</p><p>
Let the conversation begin. What about other crop systems across the country?</p><p>
Tom

<p>Thomas L. Dobbs
Professor Emeritus of Economics, South Dakota State University, and W.K. Kellogg Foundation Food &amp; Society Policy Fellow

</p></p>
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