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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Americans reduce gas consumption as prices continue to rise]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Charles Komanoff</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:07:34 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Shrinking Gasoline Demand<p>Good post. The drop in U.S. gasoline consumption is terrific news, obviously. We ran a similar story yesterday on our Carbon Tax Center blog:<br>
<a href="http://www.carbontax.org/blogarchives/2008/03/03/us-gasoline-demand-dropping-finally/" rel="nofollow">http://www.carbontax.org/blogarchives/2008/03/03/us-gasol ...<p>
Let's get the numbers straight. You wrote that gas prices haven't fallen below $2.70/gal since Katrina. But EIA data show a lower national-average price in 12 of the 30 months since then. Overstating the extent of the rise in gasoline prices is a common error, and can lead to underestimating the price-elasticity of gasoline demand. That's a no-no to us carbon-tax/gas-tax advocates.

<p>Charles
<a href="http://www.komanoff.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.komanoff.net
</a></p></p></a></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Shrinking Gasoline Demand<p>Good post. The drop in U.S. gasoline consumption is terrific news, obviously. We ran a similar story yesterday on our Carbon Tax Center blog:<br>
<a href="http://www.carbontax.org/blogarchives/2008/03/03/us-gasoline-demand-dropping-finally/" rel="nofollow">http://www.carbontax.org/blogarchives/2008/03/03/us-gasol ...<p>
Let's get the numbers straight. You wrote that gas prices haven't fallen below $2.70/gal since Katrina. But EIA data show a lower national-average price in 12 of the 30 months since then. Overstating the extent of the rise in gasoline prices is a common error, and can lead to underestimating the price-elasticity of gasoline demand. That's a no-no to us carbon-tax/gas-tax advocates.

<p>Charles
<a href="http://www.komanoff.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.komanoff.net
</a></p></p></a></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:27:27 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Glad to see it finally taking hold<p>Capitalism's amazing resiliency will most likely be in the form of extremely high mileage vehicles, from electric bikes to plug-in diesel hybrids, and much better mass transit. Forbes is parroting an obsolete oil talking point.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Glad to see it finally taking hold<p>Capitalism's amazing resiliency will most likely be in the form of extremely high mileage vehicles, from electric bikes to plug-in diesel hybrids, and much better mass transit. Forbes is parroting an obsolete oil talking point.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Tasermons Partner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:07:17 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Can hardly believe it...</strong></p><p>...but rcently economic factors actually seem to be helpin' the environment, for once.</p><p>
The recent "crisis" has halted or slowed many new subdivisons, high gas prices have cut consumption and purchasing of gas-guzzlers, and high construction costs are limitin' new coal and gas plants.</p><p>
Meanwhile, economic incentives are creatin' a frenzy of new renwable energy construction.</p>
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				<p><strong>Can hardly believe it...</strong></p><p>...but rcently economic factors actually seem to be helpin' the environment, for once.</p><p>
The recent "crisis" has halted or slowed many new subdivisons, high gas prices have cut consumption and purchasing of gas-guzzlers, and high construction costs are limitin' new coal and gas plants.</p><p>
Meanwhile, economic incentives are creatin' a frenzy of new renwable energy construction.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 23:51:57 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>I'm not sure how capitalism's</strong></p><p>amazing resiliency is going to lead to mass transit.</p><p>
None of these mainstream media articles dare to mention that the supply of oil may be peaking and about to go down. &nbsp;They still have their heads planted firmly in the oil sands (which hopefully amazingly resilient capitalism will not amazingly develop). &nbsp;Daniel Yergin is consistently wrong about his oil price predictions, and yet whenever he says that the supply of oil is no problem, the mainstream press just does their stenographer thang.</p>
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				<p><strong>I'm not sure how capitalism's</strong></p><p>amazing resiliency is going to lead to mass transit.</p><p>
None of these mainstream media articles dare to mention that the supply of oil may be peaking and about to go down. &nbsp;They still have their heads planted firmly in the oil sands (which hopefully amazingly resilient capitalism will not amazingly develop). &nbsp;Daniel Yergin is consistently wrong about his oil price predictions, and yet whenever he says that the supply of oil is no problem, the mainstream press just does their stenographer thang.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 01:54:57 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>I'm not sure either<p>With rising energy costs, the equations will all change. High speed rail may become competitive with air travel, who knows.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>I'm not sure either<p>With rising energy costs, the equations will all change. High speed rail may become competitive with air travel, who knows.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Tom Philpott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 02:05:30 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Ooops<p>That last comment is from me, not "Grist." 

<p><a href="http://grist.org/cgi-bin/search.pl?gristcat=Victual%20Reality&amp;sort=gristdate&amp;reverse=on&amp;archives=yes" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Ooops<p>That last comment is from me, not "Grist." 

<p><a href="http://grist.org/cgi-bin/search.pl?gristcat=Victual%20Reality&amp;sort=gristdate&amp;reverse=on&amp;archives=yes" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by cyclelicious</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 02:36:09 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>transit use</strong></p><p>Oil from tar sands becomes profitable not because of new technologies and processes, but because $100+/bbl makes these expensive resources profitable. That's a direct corollary to peak oil.</p><p>
In the San Francisco Bay Area, I've seen a big increase in the number of people riding Caltrain every day. I'm also used to seeing bike ridership drop to almost nothing during the winter -- it dropped some this past winter, but not nearly as much as in the past.</p><p>
Regarding more efficient cars &nbsp;-- don't forget about Jevon's Paradox! The more efficiently we can use a resource, the more available it becomes to a wider population and the faster we'll use it up.</p>
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				<p><strong>transit use</strong></p><p>Oil from tar sands becomes profitable not because of new technologies and processes, but because $100+/bbl makes these expensive resources profitable. That's a direct corollary to peak oil.</p><p>
In the San Francisco Bay Area, I've seen a big increase in the number of people riding Caltrain every day. I'm also used to seeing bike ridership drop to almost nothing during the winter -- it dropped some this past winter, but not nearly as much as in the past.</p><p>
Regarding more efficient cars &nbsp;-- don't forget about Jevon's Paradox! The more efficiently we can use a resource, the more available it becomes to a wider population and the faster we'll use it up.</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 03:59:46 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>The government will certainly need to be involved<p>I'm less certain that is will need to intervene. A matter of scale and definition I suppose.<p>
Local and federal government owns the airports, runs air traffic control, regulates and enforces airline maintenance, and on and on. Air travel would not be what it is today without the government building airports and keeping us safe.<p>
I suspect that high speed rail would be similar. If the cost of flying becomes too high because of fuel prices, consumers will want a less expensive alternative. On the other hand, I can almost see it now, direct government subsidization of airline tickets to the tune of a buck a gallon. 

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>The government will certainly need to be involved<p>I'm less certain that is will need to intervene. A matter of scale and definition I suppose.<p>
Local and federal government owns the airports, runs air traffic control, regulates and enforces airline maintenance, and on and on. Air travel would not be what it is today without the government building airports and keeping us safe.<p>
I suspect that high speed rail would be similar. If the cost of flying becomes too high because of fuel prices, consumers will want a less expensive alternative. On the other hand, I can almost see it now, direct government subsidization of airline tickets to the tune of a buck a gallon. 

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 04:15:15 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>The airline industry is doomed ...</strong></p><p>...as a mass means of travel, and when prices for tickets become exorbitant, then there may be a serious push to build a serious high-speed rail network (why the airlines don't push for car fuel economy and railroadization of freight in order to preserve oil is beyond me, but there it is).</p>
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				<p><strong>The airline industry is doomed ...</strong></p><p>...as a mass means of travel, and when prices for tickets become exorbitant, then there may be a serious push to build a serious high-speed rail network (why the airlines don't push for car fuel economy and railroadization of freight in order to preserve oil is beyond me, but there it is).</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 05:59:29 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>True that, Jon<p>

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>True that, Jon<p>

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by GonzoDon</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 06:50:53 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-wheel-turns-against-gasoline/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>News Flash:  Wall Street still clueless</strong></p><p>Here's a quote from a yahoo.com business article that appeared today:</p><p>
Meanwhile, demand for gasoline is falling, and several forecasters have cut their oil demand growth predictions for this year.</p><p>
"There are some very disturbing things in this report on the demand side," said Andrew Lebow, senior vice president at MF Global Inc. in New York.</p><p>
Wow. &nbsp;Did you catch that? &nbsp;The fall in demand for oil this year is "very disturbing" to the Big Boyz on Wall Street. &nbsp;</p><p>
In the long run, of course, it's good for the rest of us. &nbsp;The Wall Street powers that be just can't imagine a world with a reduction in consumption. &nbsp;Which makes me want to call up Mr. Andrew Lebow and suggest he get a job in the real world ... maybe ferrying people around downtown in one of those bicycle-driven cab things that are fashionable these days in touristy neighborhoods. &nbsp;</p><p>
Mr. Lebow would probably look good in a red polyester vest.</p>
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				<p><strong>News Flash:  Wall Street still clueless</strong></p><p>Here's a quote from a yahoo.com business article that appeared today:</p><p>
Meanwhile, demand for gasoline is falling, and several forecasters have cut their oil demand growth predictions for this year.</p><p>
"There are some very disturbing things in this report on the demand side," said Andrew Lebow, senior vice president at MF Global Inc. in New York.</p><p>
Wow. &nbsp;Did you catch that? &nbsp;The fall in demand for oil this year is "very disturbing" to the Big Boyz on Wall Street. &nbsp;</p><p>
In the long run, of course, it's good for the rest of us. &nbsp;The Wall Street powers that be just can't imagine a world with a reduction in consumption. &nbsp;Which makes me want to call up Mr. Andrew Lebow and suggest he get a job in the real world ... maybe ferrying people around downtown in one of those bicycle-driven cab things that are fashionable these days in touristy neighborhoods. &nbsp;</p><p>
Mr. Lebow would probably look good in a red polyester vest.</p>
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