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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Umbra on calculating CO2 weight]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by intimidavid</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:28:10 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>I like</strong></p><p>I like.</p>
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				<p><strong>I like</strong></p><p>I like.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Gustavion</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 02:29:29 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Carbon Offset</strong></p><p>Umbra,</p><p>
Do you know how much carbon a tree would 'offset?'</p>
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				<p><strong>Carbon Offset</strong></p><p>Umbra,</p><p>
Do you know how much carbon a tree would 'offset?'</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by mihan</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 03:37:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>innumeracy, density<p>"I know it's pretty meaningless to all us liberal arts majors"<p>
Um, not all... some people who are "liberal arts majors" major in physics, chemistry, and so on. Some of these (like me) also study theatre, art, and so on. Some people who are "liberal arts majors" major in things like theatre, art, and so on. Some (though few) of these also study physics, chemistry, and so on.<p>
<a href="http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2008/08/04/orzel" rel="nofollow">Why is it socially acceptable (or worse, "cute") to profess ignorance and incompetence in things scienc-ey, but not socially acceptable to profess ignorance or incompetence in the humanities-ey?<p>
From my reading (I used to teach physics to reluctant college students), it seems that our friend not-James Inhofe is confusing density with weight... you know, the whole "ton of feathers [not dense] vs. ton of lead [dense, same weight]" thing: one cubic yard of air that we breathe weighs about the same as a quart of water.</p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>innumeracy, density<p>"I know it's pretty meaningless to all us liberal arts majors"<p>
Um, not all... some people who are "liberal arts majors" major in physics, chemistry, and so on. Some of these (like me) also study theatre, art, and so on. Some people who are "liberal arts majors" major in things like theatre, art, and so on. Some (though few) of these also study physics, chemistry, and so on.<p>
<a href="http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2008/08/04/orzel" rel="nofollow">Why is it socially acceptable (or worse, "cute") to profess ignorance and incompetence in things scienc-ey, but not socially acceptable to profess ignorance or incompetence in the humanities-ey?<p>
From my reading (I used to teach physics to reluctant college students), it seems that our friend not-James Inhofe is confusing density with weight... you know, the whole "ton of feathers [not dense] vs. ton of lead [dense, same weight]" thing: one cubic yard of air that we breathe weighs about the same as a quart of water.</p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by gosner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 03:49:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>&quot;Weighing&quot; the air</strong></p><p>As a hot air balloonist, I am very aware of the "weight" of air. &nbsp;After all, we fly by filling a balloon with heated air, which weighs less than (but NOT zero) the surrounding air, and therefore floats. &nbsp;Same principle as a boat--it may weigh a lot, but it's lighter than the equivalent volume of water, so it floats to the top.</p><p>
Another reason I am aware of the mass &nbsp;(to use the Science word)of the air is this: &nbsp;if you ever stand in front of the seemingly weightless balloon as it floats a foot or two off the surface, and it is moving toward you, get out of the way! &nbsp;It will mow you down like a semi. &nbsp;The balloon and basket and the people in it have some weight/mass, but the big item is the air inside the balloon--about 3 tons of air!!</p><p>
If you have ever seen a hot air balloon, here's a way to visualize the "weight" of CO2: &nbsp;Balloons come in a range of sizes, but I'll use the typical sport balloon her for example, a "size 7." &nbsp;This balloon contains 77,000 cubic feet of air. &nbsp;At sea level, 77,000 cubic feet of air weighs 6237 pounds! &nbsp;CO2 is actually a bit heavier than air, so if I filled my balloon with pure CO2 (at sea level, standard temperature, blah, blah, the gas inside would weigh/mass 9562 pounds, or nearly 5 tons.</p><p>
Of course, the CO2 in the atmosphere is mixed in with all the other gases.</p><p>
So there you have it--if you want a visual image, 5 tons of CO2 is just about an (unheated) hot-air balloon full.</p>
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				<p><strong>&quot;Weighing&quot; the air</strong></p><p>As a hot air balloonist, I am very aware of the "weight" of air. &nbsp;After all, we fly by filling a balloon with heated air, which weighs less than (but NOT zero) the surrounding air, and therefore floats. &nbsp;Same principle as a boat--it may weigh a lot, but it's lighter than the equivalent volume of water, so it floats to the top.</p><p>
Another reason I am aware of the mass &nbsp;(to use the Science word)of the air is this: &nbsp;if you ever stand in front of the seemingly weightless balloon as it floats a foot or two off the surface, and it is moving toward you, get out of the way! &nbsp;It will mow you down like a semi. &nbsp;The balloon and basket and the people in it have some weight/mass, but the big item is the air inside the balloon--about 3 tons of air!!</p><p>
If you have ever seen a hot air balloon, here's a way to visualize the "weight" of CO2: &nbsp;Balloons come in a range of sizes, but I'll use the typical sport balloon her for example, a "size 7." &nbsp;This balloon contains 77,000 cubic feet of air. &nbsp;At sea level, 77,000 cubic feet of air weighs 6237 pounds! &nbsp;CO2 is actually a bit heavier than air, so if I filled my balloon with pure CO2 (at sea level, standard temperature, blah, blah, the gas inside would weigh/mass 9562 pounds, or nearly 5 tons.</p><p>
Of course, the CO2 in the atmosphere is mixed in with all the other gases.</p><p>
So there you have it--if you want a visual image, 5 tons of CO2 is just about an (unheated) hot-air balloon full.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by solar greg</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 04:34:19 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>propane</strong></p><p>The combustion of one gallon of LPG or propane produces 12.64 pounds of CO2 gas.</p><p>
You might ask why if a galon of propane weighs 4.22 pounds, how can that be. It's because it combines with the oxigen provided by the air.</p><p>
That is the fuel I displace most when I install solar heaters. A commercial pool 25 x 12.5 meters can produce well over 100 tons of CO2 a year in mild climates.</p>
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				<p><strong>propane</strong></p><p>The combustion of one gallon of LPG or propane produces 12.64 pounds of CO2 gas.</p><p>
You might ask why if a galon of propane weighs 4.22 pounds, how can that be. It's because it combines with the oxigen provided by the air.</p><p>
That is the fuel I displace most when I install solar heaters. A commercial pool 25 x 12.5 meters can produce well over 100 tons of CO2 a year in mild climates.</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by PermieWriter</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 05:23:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Don't forget other GHGs<p>Some of them are <a href="http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html" rel="nofollow">much &nbsp;more effective at trapping solar radiation as heat than CO2.<p>
So saith the bachelor of science (in journalism, gotta love Cal Poly). <strong>g</strong></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Don't forget other GHGs<p>Some of them are <a href="http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html" rel="nofollow">much &nbsp;more effective at trapping solar radiation as heat than CO2.<p>
So saith the bachelor of science (in journalism, gotta love Cal Poly). <strong>g</strong></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by tsauren</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 05:46:58 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>The Blue Barrel<p>We had the same thoughts about how to visualize a tonne of CO2 here at Reduce the Juice so we came up with the Blue Barrel. We calculated how much CO2 would &nbsp;it take to fill a commonly found 50 gallon drum (our Blue Barrel) and found it was 0.4kg. From there we have been able to create fabulous images that really drive home the concept of emissions reduction. One litre of gasoline is 6 Blue Barrels! <p>
Check out the photos at <a href="http://www.reducethejuice.ca/foundation/bluebarrel.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.reducethejuice.ca/foundation/bluebarrel.htm</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>The Blue Barrel<p>We had the same thoughts about how to visualize a tonne of CO2 here at Reduce the Juice so we came up with the Blue Barrel. We calculated how much CO2 would &nbsp;it take to fill a commonly found 50 gallon drum (our Blue Barrel) and found it was 0.4kg. From there we have been able to create fabulous images that really drive home the concept of emissions reduction. One litre of gasoline is 6 Blue Barrels! <p>
Check out the photos at <a href="http://www.reducethejuice.ca/foundation/bluebarrel.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.reducethejuice.ca/foundation/bluebarrel.htm</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by cnplum</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 06:40:33 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Weight and volume of carbon</strong></p><p>Out of sight/out of mind?<br>
Here's another way to look at it - a "medium sized" power plant that produces 300 MW a year also produces close to 2 million tons of carbon dioxide a year, which would take a "square" balloon that was over half a mile on each side to hold it.</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Weight and volume of carbon</strong></p><p>Out of sight/out of mind?<br>
Here's another way to look at it - a "medium sized" power plant that produces 300 MW a year also produces close to 2 million tons of carbon dioxide a year, which would take a "square" balloon that was over half a mile on each side to hold it.</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by MAD MAC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:44:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Now, when reported in parts per million........</strong></p><p>385 doesn't sound like a whole lot. But when reported in Billions of tons, it does. </p><p>
It's all smoke and mirrors. It seems probable that generating as much CO2 as we do isn't such a good idea. We probably should reduce that. </p><p>
Is it an "emergency"? For environmentalists everything is an emergency. Their natural global outlook is negative.</p>
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				<p><strong>Now, when reported in parts per million........</strong></p><p>385 doesn't sound like a whole lot. But when reported in Billions of tons, it does. </p><p>
It's all smoke and mirrors. It seems probable that generating as much CO2 as we do isn't such a good idea. We probably should reduce that. </p><p>
Is it an "emergency"? For environmentalists everything is an emergency. Their natural global outlook is negative.</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by mtvyfan</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:34:52 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Poor Umbra, having to answer math ?s so much!</strong></p><p>I have profound pity for you. Every freaking question you have been asked recently would probably make a MIT graduate flinch for the calculations you have to explain to us lay people.</p><p>
Grist should give you a pay raise, medal and vacation for having to answer all of those damn math questions. Bless you!</p>
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				<p><strong>Poor Umbra, having to answer math ?s so much!</strong></p><p>I have profound pity for you. Every freaking question you have been asked recently would probably make a MIT graduate flinch for the calculations you have to explain to us lay people.</p><p>
Grist should give you a pay raise, medal and vacation for having to answer all of those damn math questions. Bless you!</p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by ccbrewster</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:26:00 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>Where did that fuel go???</strong></p><p>Solar Greg makes a point similar to my thought here. Let's see-- I fill the gas tank in my car that gets 28 mpg, I drive 28 miles and... HEY, a gallon of gas is missing! Where the heck did it go? Oh that's right-- it went into the air! And it weighed something, didn't it? Solar Greg refines this startling observation to point out that the burning can make my original gallon weigh more than it did as a liquid. But start with the weight of the fuel because it all goes into the air.</p>
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				<p><strong>Where did that fuel go???</strong></p><p>Solar Greg makes a point similar to my thought here. Let's see-- I fill the gas tank in my car that gets 28 mpg, I drive 28 miles and... HEY, a gallon of gas is missing! Where the heck did it go? Oh that's right-- it went into the air! And it weighed something, didn't it? Solar Greg refines this startling observation to point out that the burning can make my original gallon weigh more than it did as a liquid. But start with the weight of the fuel because it all goes into the air.</p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by ccbrewster</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:43:47 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>Weighing a gas</strong></p><p>Gas is "weightless" only in the simple sense that a kid's balloon doesn't seem to have weight. But this is similar to a water balloon having no weight when you drop it in a swimming pool. The atmosphere is pressing down on the earth just as the oceans do, because of the gravitational attraction between the earth and these fluids. Add more gas to a pressurized tank, and the tank's weight increases. All molecules have mass, and therefore weight.</p>
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				<p><strong>Weighing a gas</strong></p><p>Gas is "weightless" only in the simple sense that a kid's balloon doesn't seem to have weight. But this is similar to a water balloon having no weight when you drop it in a swimming pool. The atmosphere is pressing down on the earth just as the oceans do, because of the gravitational attraction between the earth and these fluids. Add more gas to a pressurized tank, and the tank's weight increases. All molecules have mass, and therefore weight.</p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by freeztar</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:56:10 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/13</guid>
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				<p><strong>Science!</strong></p><p>As a scientist, I'm quite fond of the first paragraph. ;)</p><p>
Well done on the explanation Umbra, keep it up. :)</p>
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				<p><strong>Science!</strong></p><p>As a scientist, I'm quite fond of the first paragraph. ;)</p><p>
Well done on the explanation Umbra, keep it up. :)</p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by sindark</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 00:20:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/14</guid>
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				<p><strong>Mole</strong></p><p>"So what is a mole, you badger? If I tried to describe it, all the actual scientists who are still reading this would fall down laughing, so I leave that to you and your own research, dear readers."</p><p>
A mole is a very simple thing. It is just 6.02 x 10^23 atoms or molecules of anything. It has no units because it is a counting number, like a dozen.</p><p>
Imagine a dozen carbon dioxide molecules. Then imagine 5.01 x 10^22 of those dozens. That is a mole of carbon dioxide molecules.</p>
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				<p><strong>Mole</strong></p><p>"So what is a mole, you badger? If I tried to describe it, all the actual scientists who are still reading this would fall down laughing, so I leave that to you and your own research, dear readers."</p><p>
A mole is a very simple thing. It is just 6.02 x 10^23 atoms or molecules of anything. It has no units because it is a counting number, like a dozen.</p><p>
Imagine a dozen carbon dioxide molecules. Then imagine 5.01 x 10^22 of those dozens. That is a mole of carbon dioxide molecules.</p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by sindark</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 00:25:08 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/15</guid>
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				<p><strong>Scientific notation<p>For those not familiar with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_notation" rel="nofollow">scientific notation 6.02 x 10^23 is the same as:<p>
602,000,000,000,000,000,000,000</p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Scientific notation<p>For those not familiar with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_notation" rel="nofollow">scientific notation 6.02 x 10^23 is the same as:<p>
602,000,000,000,000,000,000,000</p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #16 by thollandpe</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 06:39:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/16</guid>
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				<p><strong>See, oh two!</strong></p><p>Well done, Umbra. &nbsp;I relish the rodent references. </p><p>
I also appreciate the equation &nbsp;CH4 + 2O2 =&gt; CO2 + 2H20</p><p>
CH4 is a hydrocarbon. &nbsp;We buy the hydrocarbons, which are mostly carbon (75 to 90%) because hydrogen is light. &nbsp;But CO2 is only 27% carbon by weight. &nbsp;</p><p>
So for each pound of fuel you buy, you make about 3 pounds of CO2! &nbsp;Save a little hydrocarbon, save a lot of greenhouse gas. &nbsp;<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>See, oh two!</strong></p><p>Well done, Umbra. &nbsp;I relish the rodent references. </p><p>
I also appreciate the equation &nbsp;CH4 + 2O2 =&gt; CO2 + 2H20</p><p>
CH4 is a hydrocarbon. &nbsp;We buy the hydrocarbons, which are mostly carbon (75 to 90%) because hydrogen is light. &nbsp;But CO2 is only 27% carbon by weight. &nbsp;</p><p>
So for each pound of fuel you buy, you make about 3 pounds of CO2! &nbsp;Save a little hydrocarbon, save a lot of greenhouse gas. &nbsp;<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #17 by LGT</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:58:09 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/17</guid>
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				<p><strong>And the CO2 content of the dollar?<p>"Carbon Footprint of Your Dollar"<p>
"... for every dollar paid (or received) each time in 2007 an average of about 136 grams of carbon, or 499g of CO2 were released to the environment."<p>
<a href="http://edro.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/carbon-footprint-for-your-dollar/" rel="nofollow">http://edro.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/carbon-footprint-for ...</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>And the CO2 content of the dollar?<p>"Carbon Footprint of Your Dollar"<p>
"... for every dollar paid (or received) each time in 2007 an average of about 136 grams of carbon, or 499g of CO2 were released to the environment."<p>
<a href="http://edro.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/carbon-footprint-for-your-dollar/" rel="nofollow">http://edro.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/carbon-footprint-for ...</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #18 by FernCreek</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 01:51:30 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/18</guid>
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				<p><strong>How about gallons?</strong></p><p>It helps me to think of a gas in terms of gallons. A mole of any gas is 22.4 liters (at "standard temperature and pressure," as scientists say). &nbsp;According to my calculations, one pound of carbon dioxide equals about 61 gallons.</p><p>
I've read that burning one gallon of gasoline results in emission of about 19 pounds of carbon dioxide.</p><p>
This means that burning one gallon of gasoline results in emission of about 1,200 gallons of carbon dioxide.</p><p>
Something to think about each time you fill up your gas tank.</p>
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				<p><strong>How about gallons?</strong></p><p>It helps me to think of a gas in terms of gallons. A mole of any gas is 22.4 liters (at "standard temperature and pressure," as scientists say). &nbsp;According to my calculations, one pound of carbon dioxide equals about 61 gallons.</p><p>
I've read that burning one gallon of gasoline results in emission of about 19 pounds of carbon dioxide.</p><p>
This means that burning one gallon of gasoline results in emission of about 1,200 gallons of carbon dioxide.</p><p>
Something to think about each time you fill up your gas tank.</p>
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            <title>Comment #19 by pacinopeer</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:59:06 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-ton-also-rises/19</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
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