<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Why electricity is the energy carrier of choice]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/ Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:29:11 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/1 Greens Exposed!

It's become clear to me that the "Greens" are not protectors of the environment, but protectors of the electric companies.

They love electric cars, and hybrids, because their masters (the wind-solar combine) will profit mightily.

They hate hydrogen because it reduces demand for solar panels and wind turbines and reduces dependence on electricity from the grid.  It encourages independence and delivers more wealth to the people, so the Greens don't like hydrogen.

]]> Greens Exposed!

It's become clear to me that the "Greens" are not protectors of the environment, but protectors of the electric companies.

They love electric cars, and hybrids, because their masters (the wind-solar combine) will profit mightily.

They hate hydrogen because it reduces demand for solar panels and wind turbines and reduces dependence on electricity from the grid.  It encourages independence and delivers more wealth to the people, so the Greens don't like hydrogen.

]]> Comment #2 by vakibs http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/ Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:53:34 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/2 greens love jabailo

... for his charming wit, intelligent analysis and his passion of finding Hydrogen as the source of life in all the posts.

Like the solitary electron which revolves around the Hydrogen nucleus, jabailo keeps revolving around the topic. Which direction of spin do you have, jabailo ?

Is it true that we cannot know your velocity and momentum at the same time ?

Are you a particle or a wave, jabailo ?

A grist without jabailo will not be a happy grist.

Let's think in terms of eco-dollars.

]]> greens love jabailo

... for his charming wit, intelligent analysis and his passion of finding Hydrogen as the source of life in all the posts.

Like the solitary electron which revolves around the Hydrogen nucleus, jabailo keeps revolving around the topic. Which direction of spin do you have, jabailo ?

Is it true that we cannot know your velocity and momentum at the same time ?

Are you a particle or a wave, jabailo ?

A grist without jabailo will not be a happy grist.

Let's think in terms of eco-dollars.

]]> Comment #3 by sunflower http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/ Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:58:35 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/3 The light side of the force

Electricity for motors yes, for heat not so easy to see.  Solar power will cost $1/Watt(e) and solar heat $0.20/Watt(t).

]]> The light side of the force

Electricity for motors yes, for heat not so easy to see.  Solar power will cost $1/Watt(e) and solar heat $0.20/Watt(t).

]]> Comment #4 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/ Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:22:41 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/4 Admittedly, he is filling a niche

in the village of Grist.

How hydrogen would reduce the demand for solar and wind is beyond me. But then, I'm not all that bright.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world


]]> Admittedly, he is filling a niche

in the village of Grist.

How hydrogen would reduce the demand for solar and wind is beyond me. But then, I'm not all that bright.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world


]]> Comment #5 by Jonas http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/ Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:36:23 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/5 No modifications of infrastructures

In some cases, you don't even need to modify infrastructures at all, you can just use the existing ones.

For example, it is very difficult to co-fire large amounts of biomass with coal - 5 to 10% seems to be a practical limit. The wet dream of the renewable energy sector would be to find a way to replace all coal in existing coal plants.

And voilà, some smart scientists have already come up with a technology capable of doing so. It's called torrefaction, a highly efficient conversion and densification process which results in a renewable fuel that can replace 100% of coal in existing infrastructures (not only the boilers, but the entire existing logistical, storage and processing infrastructures can be used).

So all the anti-renewables talk based on the idea that there are no cost-effective or efficient baseloads, are nonsensical. It's perfectly feasible to create such green baseloads, which can serve to make the intermittent renewables independent of coal and gas.

]]> No modifications of infrastructures

In some cases, you don't even need to modify infrastructures at all, you can just use the existing ones.

For example, it is very difficult to co-fire large amounts of biomass with coal - 5 to 10% seems to be a practical limit. The wet dream of the renewable energy sector would be to find a way to replace all coal in existing coal plants.

And voilà, some smart scientists have already come up with a technology capable of doing so. It's called torrefaction, a highly efficient conversion and densification process which results in a renewable fuel that can replace 100% of coal in existing infrastructures (not only the boilers, but the entire existing logistical, storage and processing infrastructures can be used).

So all the anti-renewables talk based on the idea that there are no cost-effective or efficient baseloads, are nonsensical. It's perfectly feasible to create such green baseloads, which can serve to make the intermittent renewables independent of coal and gas.

]]> Comment #6 by Michael Hoexter http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/ Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:35:14 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/6 Hydrogen is parasitic on the electron economies

Jabailo is expressing a very naive view of what hydrogen is in discussions of energy.  Hydrogen as an energy carrier, at least in its clean and supposedly promising forms, needs renewably generated electricity.  But it will yield 2/3rds less usable energy than using electricity directly or storing electricity in a battery.  So if we used a lot of hydrogen we would have much more of a need for wind turbines, solar panels and the services of electric utilities.  We would need 2.5 to 3 times as much clean generation capacity to power the same amount of transport than if we used electricity as the energy carrier.  

I'm surprised that there are people still out there (posting on this blog) with this lack of understanding of how hydrogen works.  

The hydrogen that is available now is mostly a byproduct of the oil refining process and is such not very "clean".

]]> Hydrogen is parasitic on the electron economies

Jabailo is expressing a very naive view of what hydrogen is in discussions of energy.  Hydrogen as an energy carrier, at least in its clean and supposedly promising forms, needs renewably generated electricity.  But it will yield 2/3rds less usable energy than using electricity directly or storing electricity in a battery.  So if we used a lot of hydrogen we would have much more of a need for wind turbines, solar panels and the services of electric utilities.  We would need 2.5 to 3 times as much clean generation capacity to power the same amount of transport than if we used electricity as the energy carrier.  

I'm surprised that there are people still out there (posting on this blog) with this lack of understanding of how hydrogen works.  

The hydrogen that is available now is mostly a byproduct of the oil refining process and is such not very "clean".

]]> Comment #7 by MAD MAC http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/ Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:11:56 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-renewable-electron-economy-part-6/7 Are you saying the Sun is an energy carrier?

Because I thought the sun derived it's enormous energy output from Hydrogen. Which would mean all solar energy is hydrogen energy.

Victory in Pattani

]]> Are you saying the Sun is an energy carrier?

Because I thought the sun derived it's enormous energy output from Hydrogen. Which would mean all solar energy is hydrogen energy.

Victory in Pattani

]]>