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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Global warming is going to f*ck us all kinds of up]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by kmp</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:20:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Yes but</strong></p><p>all the quantifiable horrors above, while horrible, are still too far away to wake up the general populace. &nbsp;How many of us will be around to see 2050? &nbsp;Not to mention 2100? Not saying that I don't care what happens then, it's just that people do tend to scale things to the available timeframe.</p><p>
I'd like to see a list of stats that are global warming-related and will happen by 2010: number of species gone extinct, sea level rise, increase in violent storms, $$$ spent on recovery from violent storms, acres of coastline eroded, pounds of soil lost from our forests, amount of rain that should have fallen in Arizona that won't and amount of rain that should not be falling in Maine but will. &nbsp;Although the list above is clearly horrow-show material, it is also in the realm of things so big and/or horrible that it is difficult to wrap your brain around them. &nbsp;How about a list like the below?</p><p>
-In 2010, a pound of USDA beef will cost $17.99.</p><p>
-In 2010, you will spend an average of 40% of your household earnings on transportation.</p><p>
-In 2010, America will have lost forever 70 species of birds and 300 species of amphibians. &nbsp;Insect species, however, will continue to proliferate due to the lack of natural predators - there will be twice as many mosquitoes in your backyard in 2010.</p><p>
-In 2010, the average American household will pay $237 in taxes toward disaster relief related to violent storm recovery.</p><p>
I don't know if such a list is possible to provide but I think it would have much greater impact.</p>
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				<p><strong>Yes but</strong></p><p>all the quantifiable horrors above, while horrible, are still too far away to wake up the general populace. &nbsp;How many of us will be around to see 2050? &nbsp;Not to mention 2100? Not saying that I don't care what happens then, it's just that people do tend to scale things to the available timeframe.</p><p>
I'd like to see a list of stats that are global warming-related and will happen by 2010: number of species gone extinct, sea level rise, increase in violent storms, $$$ spent on recovery from violent storms, acres of coastline eroded, pounds of soil lost from our forests, amount of rain that should have fallen in Arizona that won't and amount of rain that should not be falling in Maine but will. &nbsp;Although the list above is clearly horrow-show material, it is also in the realm of things so big and/or horrible that it is difficult to wrap your brain around them. &nbsp;How about a list like the below?</p><p>
-In 2010, a pound of USDA beef will cost $17.99.</p><p>
-In 2010, you will spend an average of 40% of your household earnings on transportation.</p><p>
-In 2010, America will have lost forever 70 species of birds and 300 species of amphibians. &nbsp;Insect species, however, will continue to proliferate due to the lack of natural predators - there will be twice as many mosquitoes in your backyard in 2010.</p><p>
-In 2010, the average American household will pay $237 in taxes toward disaster relief related to violent storm recovery.</p><p>
I don't know if such a list is possible to provide but I think it would have much greater impact.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:40:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>That Wasn't In The Script</strong></p><p><br>
It's a far leap from using a climate model to predicting global mean temperatures to estimating specific results such a famine.</p><p>
There's a whole chain of logic and causality implied there that just is not supported by any theory or fact.</p><p>
I have said, just off-the-cuff because that's about the level of discussion the other side uses, that we will see vast increase in fertile land because of global warming. &nbsp; And recently I was reading that parts of the Sahara are getting more rainfall and deserts are retreating in places.</p><p>
See, these 3 times removed effects of global warming are even less understood than the primary mechanisms.<br>


<p>The Texeme Construct offers international text memetics construction and textcasting services.</p></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>That Wasn't In The Script</strong></p><p><br>
It's a far leap from using a climate model to predicting global mean temperatures to estimating specific results such a famine.</p><p>
There's a whole chain of logic and causality implied there that just is not supported by any theory or fact.</p><p>
I have said, just off-the-cuff because that's about the level of discussion the other side uses, that we will see vast increase in fertile land because of global warming. &nbsp; And recently I was reading that parts of the Sahara are getting more rainfall and deserts are retreating in places.</p><p>
See, these 3 times removed effects of global warming are even less understood than the primary mechanisms.<br>


<p>The Texeme Construct offers international text memetics construction and textcasting services.</p></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:42:09 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Regarding &quot;We'll I'll be dead by then&quot;<p>Well I think this ad covers that well.<br>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjlJ_CS_xWw" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjlJ_CS_xWw</a></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Regarding &quot;We'll I'll be dead by then&quot;<p>Well I think this ad covers that well.<br>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjlJ_CS_xWw" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjlJ_CS_xWw</a></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by ataremove</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:20:42 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>THE PUBLIC DOESN'T HAVE THE TIME TO UNDERSTAND.</strong></p><p>Or rather the public isn't letting on that they are aware. <br>
For most citizens the way to cope with climate change is to act dumb and play smart. </p><p>
In the fall of 1999, I was talking with the man (that's MAN not "guy") who farms my parents land. He said that sunflowers did very well that year, but the wheat (the usual big crop in south-central North Dakota) did not do well, only about half the yeild he usually gets. He said, "It was too wet for wheat." &nbsp;<br>
That was on November 8, 1999, south of Jamestown, ND. &nbsp;The air temperature was 75 degrees F. &nbsp;</p><p>
I know, that's all anecdotal information. &nbsp;But all the same, the public is aware of global warming. &nbsp;And most of them are saying, "BRING IT ON, BABY!" &nbsp;</p><p>
Also, I couldn't give a hang about polar bears. &nbsp;Where were they 14,000 years ago? &nbsp;Certainly not Hudson Bay, which seems to be their main focal point the last few decades. &nbsp;

<p>ataremove</p></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>THE PUBLIC DOESN'T HAVE THE TIME TO UNDERSTAND.</strong></p><p>Or rather the public isn't letting on that they are aware. <br>
For most citizens the way to cope with climate change is to act dumb and play smart. </p><p>
In the fall of 1999, I was talking with the man (that's MAN not "guy") who farms my parents land. He said that sunflowers did very well that year, but the wheat (the usual big crop in south-central North Dakota) did not do well, only about half the yeild he usually gets. He said, "It was too wet for wheat." &nbsp;<br>
That was on November 8, 1999, south of Jamestown, ND. &nbsp;The air temperature was 75 degrees F. &nbsp;</p><p>
I know, that's all anecdotal information. &nbsp;But all the same, the public is aware of global warming. &nbsp;And most of them are saying, "BRING IT ON, BABY!" &nbsp;</p><p>
Also, I couldn't give a hang about polar bears. &nbsp;Where were they 14,000 years ago? &nbsp;Certainly not Hudson Bay, which seems to be their main focal point the last few decades. &nbsp;

<p>ataremove</p></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Zarkov</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:42:17 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>&quot;BRING IT ON, BABY!&quot;</strong></p><p>As Socrates was reported to have said</p><p>
"Beware your wishes"</p><p>
I think a time frame of 10 years will see massive changes to civilisation's structure. &nbsp;And none of them will be for anyone's good.</p><p>
Yep, in your time-frame.</p>
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				<p><strong>&quot;BRING IT ON, BABY!&quot;</strong></p><p>As Socrates was reported to have said</p><p>
"Beware your wishes"</p><p>
I think a time frame of 10 years will see massive changes to civilisation's structure. &nbsp;And none of them will be for anyone's good.</p><p>
Yep, in your time-frame.</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by SMLowry</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:46:07 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Oh my . . .</strong></p><p>I saw that article, too, in the Sunday paper out of Portland, Maine. In 2050, my sons may still be alive, and my grandsons will be about my age. I am devastated by what the future may hold for today's children. Somedays I wonder how it will be to live the rest of my life witnessing the changes (which are already happening, that's obvious), remembering how "it used to be", looking at the pictures, mourning the losses. It's unspeakably sad to me, which is why we need friends and good music and to somehow cultivate the ability to live in the moment, every moment, not just when it's easy.</p><p>
I think it's an unfortunate (to put it mildly) circumstance when people, many of whom are parents and grandparents, aren't willing or able to grasp anything longer term than ten years. What kind of culture have we created if that's really the case? What I'd like to know, and maybe this information will be in the actual report, is how many of these awful calamities are inevitable and how many of them can be prevented if we do . . . whatever. Big IF, I know, but still.</p><p>
When reports like these come out, confirming what I've suspected but really, really bad news, very depressing to hear, I share the information wherever I can, including in my column in the local paper. Sometimes I feel like a broken record. I half expect the editor to call me one day &nbsp;and say, "Susan, I'm sorry but we can't run this column. Can't you write about something else?" I will say I've gone a month without a major climate change piece, but I feel another one coming on soon.</p><p>
I feel like a little kid stamping her foot in frustration, but I just don't get why we, and by "we" I mean all of us and all of our institutions, governments, the whole ball of wax, why we aren't trashing business-dailylife-as-usual to devote our time and energy, and our money (instead of on war), everything, to finding and developing solutions and making and encouraging serious lifestyle changes. Yes, yes, I know there are logical reasons why, most having to do with money, but we need to make the transformations anyway. Worrying about money today with that future facing us? Oh my . . . </p>
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				<p><strong>Oh my . . .</strong></p><p>I saw that article, too, in the Sunday paper out of Portland, Maine. In 2050, my sons may still be alive, and my grandsons will be about my age. I am devastated by what the future may hold for today's children. Somedays I wonder how it will be to live the rest of my life witnessing the changes (which are already happening, that's obvious), remembering how "it used to be", looking at the pictures, mourning the losses. It's unspeakably sad to me, which is why we need friends and good music and to somehow cultivate the ability to live in the moment, every moment, not just when it's easy.</p><p>
I think it's an unfortunate (to put it mildly) circumstance when people, many of whom are parents and grandparents, aren't willing or able to grasp anything longer term than ten years. What kind of culture have we created if that's really the case? What I'd like to know, and maybe this information will be in the actual report, is how many of these awful calamities are inevitable and how many of them can be prevented if we do . . . whatever. Big IF, I know, but still.</p><p>
When reports like these come out, confirming what I've suspected but really, really bad news, very depressing to hear, I share the information wherever I can, including in my column in the local paper. Sometimes I feel like a broken record. I half expect the editor to call me one day &nbsp;and say, "Susan, I'm sorry but we can't run this column. Can't you write about something else?" I will say I've gone a month without a major climate change piece, but I feel another one coming on soon.</p><p>
I feel like a little kid stamping her foot in frustration, but I just don't get why we, and by "we" I mean all of us and all of our institutions, governments, the whole ball of wax, why we aren't trashing business-dailylife-as-usual to devote our time and energy, and our money (instead of on war), everything, to finding and developing solutions and making and encouraging serious lifestyle changes. Yes, yes, I know there are logical reasons why, most having to do with money, but we need to make the transformations anyway. Worrying about money today with that future facing us? Oh my . . . </p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Zarkov</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:38:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Action</strong></p><p>&gt;&gt; I just don't get why we,......(aren't)..... developing solutions and making and encouraging serious lifestyle changes.&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</p><p>
Well it's the ghost in the machine. &nbsp;Deep inside everybody knows its the end. &nbsp;For most it is inevitable..... for some, the frustration of the nihilist momentum of the mass is too much to bear, and they commit suicide. "What can I do alone" they say.</p><p>
You see, the human population is mentally poisoned by bio toxic substances, they are medicated, sedated and are happy for their fate. &nbsp;The children ?, who cares for the children, no not like YOUR children, but the new generation children. NO One. </p><p>
There is much we can do... but no one is listening. Its like reading a book, and forgetting the last page's contents, so then re-reading... ad infinitum. &nbsp;It is too hard, too many words... just toooo unbelievable.</p><p>
Anyone interested in helping me write a book ?<br>
A story of HOPE.</p><p>
<b>I have hope</b> you see, I am not medicated.... I removed these psycho toxic everyday poisons from my body and brain 40 years ago.</p><p>
I think we can have a go, but I call for revolution. &nbsp;The inertia of the masses must be countered.</p><p>
We have mind to mind communication (Internet), we could organise like never before... this really is the end times unless we act cooperatively.</p><p>
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omegafour.com</br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Action</strong></p><p>&gt;&gt; I just don't get why we,......(aren't)..... developing solutions and making and encouraging serious lifestyle changes.&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</p><p>
Well it's the ghost in the machine. &nbsp;Deep inside everybody knows its the end. &nbsp;For most it is inevitable..... for some, the frustration of the nihilist momentum of the mass is too much to bear, and they commit suicide. "What can I do alone" they say.</p><p>
You see, the human population is mentally poisoned by bio toxic substances, they are medicated, sedated and are happy for their fate. &nbsp;The children ?, who cares for the children, no not like YOUR children, but the new generation children. NO One. </p><p>
There is much we can do... but no one is listening. Its like reading a book, and forgetting the last page's contents, so then re-reading... ad infinitum. &nbsp;It is too hard, too many words... just toooo unbelievable.</p><p>
Anyone interested in helping me write a book ?<br>
A story of HOPE.</p><p>
<b>I have hope</b> you see, I am not medicated.... I removed these psycho toxic everyday poisons from my body and brain 40 years ago.</p><p>
I think we can have a go, but I call for revolution. &nbsp;The inertia of the masses must be countered.</p><p>
We have mind to mind communication (Internet), we could organise like never before... this really is the end times unless we act cooperatively.</p><p>
(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
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<br>
omegafour.com</br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by dobermanmacleod</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:34:06 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-public-doesnt-understand-that-global-warming-is-already-hitting/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>It is much worse than you think</strong></p><p>To understand what is about to happen, look toward Siberia (a land mass as big as Germany and France combined). &nbsp;There the permafrost is beginning to melt, releasing tremendous quantities of trapped methane. &nbsp;As the methane is emitted, the added warmth speeds up the rate of melt, in a vicious circle. &nbsp;Already the methane level there is 30 times normal, and the temperature rise is 3C, the highest in the world.</p><p>
Hydrate (ice with trapped methane) contains TWICE the carbon as all fossil fuels combined. &nbsp;Unlike fossil fuels which emit greenhouse gas (GHG) when burned, hydrate releases GHG when it melts.</p><p>
This hydrate has melted before with catastrophic results. &nbsp;A trigger upsets the carbon budget, and a chain reaction of melting hydrate causes a vicious circle of runaway global warming. &nbsp;Mankind's GHG emissions are much larger than past triggers to severe runaway global warming episodes, so we can expect the chain reaction to start much quicker, unfold much much faster, and therefore be much, much, much more severe.</p><p>
The IPCC didn't include either melting hydrate or the vicious circle because Siberia is a relatively new development (but is unfolding rapidly, and proving what I've written above). &nbsp;Mankind doesn't have decades to slowly get their GHG emissions under control, and thus probably will not be able to avoid triggering a severe runaway global warming episode that will kill most people by the end of the century.</p><p>
The only hope is to remove the CO2 from the air after it has been emitted.</p>
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				<p><strong>It is much worse than you think</strong></p><p>To understand what is about to happen, look toward Siberia (a land mass as big as Germany and France combined). &nbsp;There the permafrost is beginning to melt, releasing tremendous quantities of trapped methane. &nbsp;As the methane is emitted, the added warmth speeds up the rate of melt, in a vicious circle. &nbsp;Already the methane level there is 30 times normal, and the temperature rise is 3C, the highest in the world.</p><p>
Hydrate (ice with trapped methane) contains TWICE the carbon as all fossil fuels combined. &nbsp;Unlike fossil fuels which emit greenhouse gas (GHG) when burned, hydrate releases GHG when it melts.</p><p>
This hydrate has melted before with catastrophic results. &nbsp;A trigger upsets the carbon budget, and a chain reaction of melting hydrate causes a vicious circle of runaway global warming. &nbsp;Mankind's GHG emissions are much larger than past triggers to severe runaway global warming episodes, so we can expect the chain reaction to start much quicker, unfold much much faster, and therefore be much, much, much more severe.</p><p>
The IPCC didn't include either melting hydrate or the vicious circle because Siberia is a relatively new development (but is unfolding rapidly, and proving what I've written above). &nbsp;Mankind doesn't have decades to slowly get their GHG emissions under control, and thus probably will not be able to avoid triggering a severe runaway global warming episode that will kill most people by the end of the century.</p><p>
The only hope is to remove the CO2 from the air after it has been emitted.</p>
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