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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Review of Fields of Fuel]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by cchange</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 09:01:25 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>biochar<p>I have some inside information on this film . One of the companies that was interviewed for the film and then cut out . (did not make a financial contribution, hint-wink) is New earth renewable energy. they are on the forefront of non food biofuels conducting slow pyrolysis of biomass to produce a charcoal pellet that can have as much energy per ton as coal itself . So a power plant can blend or replace there coal diet over night and become carbon neutral or even carbon negative. The other co product of pyrolysis is bio-oil in this company's case can be directly converted to biodiesel using the lie/ methanol process.The third co product of pyrolysis is Biochar which has the potential to sequester mega tons of carbon right in our top soils while improving the health and productivity of even the most marginal soils also known as Agrichar I encourage every one to look into it &nbsp;Please don't write off biofuels, we are in a very interesting time with lots of experiments in play. Our demand for energy is huge and growing , it will take all the alternatives we can muster to replace the dragon. I'm not an employee or an investor yet of Newearth heres the link<br>
<a href="http://www.newearth1.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.newearth1.net </a></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>biochar<p>I have some inside information on this film . One of the companies that was interviewed for the film and then cut out . (did not make a financial contribution, hint-wink) is New earth renewable energy. they are on the forefront of non food biofuels conducting slow pyrolysis of biomass to produce a charcoal pellet that can have as much energy per ton as coal itself . So a power plant can blend or replace there coal diet over night and become carbon neutral or even carbon negative. The other co product of pyrolysis is bio-oil in this company's case can be directly converted to biodiesel using the lie/ methanol process.The third co product of pyrolysis is Biochar which has the potential to sequester mega tons of carbon right in our top soils while improving the health and productivity of even the most marginal soils also known as Agrichar I encourage every one to look into it &nbsp;Please don't write off biofuels, we are in a very interesting time with lots of experiments in play. Our demand for energy is huge and growing , it will take all the alternatives we can muster to replace the dragon. I'm not an employee or an investor yet of Newearth heres the link<br>
<a href="http://www.newearth1.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.newearth1.net </a></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Erik Hoffner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 09:41:58 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>heeds<p>You've got 'heeds' where 'needs' is what I think you intended in the last sentence, biodiversivist.<p>
So, by combining the title of your post with the bit about Congressman Inslee watching his language because an "obscure blogger might be in the audience trying to take notes in the dark," are you taking credit for the world's awareness that growing crops for fuel is a troubled idea? I believe a former professor of mine has you beat by about 20 years, but rest assured that there won't be a change in the 'non-food based' language attached to this film when it putt putts out of Seattle.<p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.oriongrassroots.org" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>heeds<p>You've got 'heeds' where 'needs' is what I think you intended in the last sentence, biodiversivist.<p>
So, by combining the title of your post with the bit about Congressman Inslee watching his language because an "obscure blogger might be in the audience trying to take notes in the dark," are you taking credit for the world's awareness that growing crops for fuel is a troubled idea? I believe a former professor of mine has you beat by about 20 years, but rest assured that there won't be a change in the 'non-food based' language attached to this film when it putt putts out of Seattle.<p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.oriongrassroots.org" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:03:28 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>The best thing about having an editor, Eric<p>is that you can blame everything on him!<p>
...are you taking credit for the world's awareness that growing crops for fuel is a troubled idea?<p>
No, Eric, but I am taking partial credit for some of the editing in his film. I participated in the protest that met it at the Seattle Film Festival. I'm in this iteration or the movie. Look for me if you go to see it. I'm wearing a bike helmet and holding up one side of a banner.<p>
The film promoters were talking with me outside of the theatre. I took a picture of them taking my picture. They even let me stow my bike in the "Veggie &nbsp;Van" while I reviewed the movie.<p>
If your former professor thought this was a bad idea 20 years ago, why were you fueling your Jetta with this stuff until a year ago? He must not have made much of an impression on you.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>The best thing about having an editor, Eric<p>is that you can blame everything on him!<p>
...are you taking credit for the world's awareness that growing crops for fuel is a troubled idea?<p>
No, Eric, but I am taking partial credit for some of the editing in his film. I participated in the protest that met it at the Seattle Film Festival. I'm in this iteration or the movie. Look for me if you go to see it. I'm wearing a bike helmet and holding up one side of a banner.<p>
The film promoters were talking with me outside of the theatre. I took a picture of them taking my picture. They even let me stow my bike in the "Veggie &nbsp;Van" while I reviewed the movie.<p>
If your former professor thought this was a bad idea 20 years ago, why were you fueling your Jetta with this stuff until a year ago? He must not have made much of an impression on you.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:53:45 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Moveon</strong></p><p>He better move on to another topic bio-d.</p><p>
I would suggest farm biogas. &nbsp;He could even compress it to run an economy plugin hybrid. &nbsp;The biodiesel gas guzzling thing is doomed, algae or not.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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				<p><strong>Moveon</strong></p><p>He better move on to another topic bio-d.</p><p>
I would suggest farm biogas. &nbsp;He could even compress it to run an economy plugin hybrid. &nbsp;The biodiesel gas guzzling thing is doomed, algae or not.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:24:01 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>...ah, I see I misspelled your name again, Erik<p>My apologies. 

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>...ah, I see I misspelled your name again, Erik<p>My apologies. 

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by JMG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:05:49 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Good on you<p>Good for you, Bio-d. &nbsp;Thank you for your stalwart efforts and your tireless refusal to let this issue drop down the memory hole and into "business as usual."<p>
Environmentalists have been turned into accomplices for a great crime, where people on the margins across the world are literally starved so that rich people in the US can continue their energy trance by telling themselves that agrofuels are "green."<p>
This afternoon I watched Oregon's Secretary of State, Bill Bradbury (strongly rumored to be interested in running for the open Governor's chair in 2010) give his slide show (Bradbury was the only elected and was one of the first 50 trainees in Al Gore's efforts to spread the message through others by training them to give essentially the same kind of show portrayed in An Inconvenient Truth).<p>
He finished up by glossing over Pacala and Socolow's wedges, picking a bunch, and by saying that "I look at those and I just don't see anything too hard." &nbsp;That's when he mentioned "biofuels" for the first time, but he did it again later in the Q&amp;A when he talked about how E. Oregon farmers were getting religion on climate change in part because they are getting a bunch of windmill leases and growing biofuels.<p>
He didn't point out that Oregon has added an enormous subsidy ON TOP OF the federal subsidies, or mention the state's huge budget hole, or the fact that the latest result of Big Green's work in Oregon has been to lure a COAL-BURNING ethanol plant to Oregon (Snake River Ethanol, in Nyssa), so that we can ship corn from the midwest to Oregon to turn Wyoming coal into ethanol. &nbsp;He didn't mention that Portland's transit service is paying $6.75 per gallon for biodiesel.<p>
So, consider what it means that, among politicians, people like Inslee and Bradbury are at the top of the heap. &nbsp;It afraid it means that we are SO.SCREWED. &nbsp;<p>
But thanks to you and Steenblik and others for helping get the word out. &nbsp;We may, as Churchill said, eventually do the right thing--once all the other alternatives have been found wanting. &nbsp;The question is whether we'll be blowing through positive-feedback tipping points before we get Big Green and the subsidy ranchers to let go their death grip on the Legislatures and Congress.

<p>The <a href="http://is.gd/39gm" rel="nofollow">5% Project

Let's live on the planet as if we intend to stay.</a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Good on you<p>Good for you, Bio-d. &nbsp;Thank you for your stalwart efforts and your tireless refusal to let this issue drop down the memory hole and into "business as usual."<p>
Environmentalists have been turned into accomplices for a great crime, where people on the margins across the world are literally starved so that rich people in the US can continue their energy trance by telling themselves that agrofuels are "green."<p>
This afternoon I watched Oregon's Secretary of State, Bill Bradbury (strongly rumored to be interested in running for the open Governor's chair in 2010) give his slide show (Bradbury was the only elected and was one of the first 50 trainees in Al Gore's efforts to spread the message through others by training them to give essentially the same kind of show portrayed in An Inconvenient Truth).<p>
He finished up by glossing over Pacala and Socolow's wedges, picking a bunch, and by saying that "I look at those and I just don't see anything too hard." &nbsp;That's when he mentioned "biofuels" for the first time, but he did it again later in the Q&amp;A when he talked about how E. Oregon farmers were getting religion on climate change in part because they are getting a bunch of windmill leases and growing biofuels.<p>
He didn't point out that Oregon has added an enormous subsidy ON TOP OF the federal subsidies, or mention the state's huge budget hole, or the fact that the latest result of Big Green's work in Oregon has been to lure a COAL-BURNING ethanol plant to Oregon (Snake River Ethanol, in Nyssa), so that we can ship corn from the midwest to Oregon to turn Wyoming coal into ethanol. &nbsp;He didn't mention that Portland's transit service is paying $6.75 per gallon for biodiesel.<p>
So, consider what it means that, among politicians, people like Inslee and Bradbury are at the top of the heap. &nbsp;It afraid it means that we are SO.SCREWED. &nbsp;<p>
But thanks to you and Steenblik and others for helping get the word out. &nbsp;We may, as Churchill said, eventually do the right thing--once all the other alternatives have been found wanting. &nbsp;The question is whether we'll be blowing through positive-feedback tipping points before we get Big Green and the subsidy ranchers to let go their death grip on the Legislatures and Congress.

<p>The <a href="http://is.gd/39gm" rel="nofollow">5% Project

Let's live on the planet as if we intend to stay.</a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:52:02 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>&quot;crack-crazed chicken&quot;</strong></p><p>Nice post, BioD. &nbsp;However so little you may have remembered from the movie-viewing, it is plenty interesting.</p><p>
A taste-test of algae oil is not something that I would look forward to.</p><p>
As a fan of Neil Young and (to a lesser extent) Willie Nelson, I do not hold these little enthusiasms of theirs against them.</p><p>
As a fan of Star Trek, though, I freely admit that the way its writers go about creating stories, involving heroizing the military/industrial complex, is disturbing. &nbsp;And the "universal translator" is at least as challenging a technological innovation as warp drive, demolecularization transport and holodecks, though it receives much less attention. &nbsp;Still, story-telling has required that kind of suspension of disbelief forever, presumably; certainly long before the age when the Greek-speakers Helen and Achilles chatted so effortlessly with Trojan-speakers Paris and Priam (whatever language Trojan might have been).</p><p>
But it is indeed rather anti-scientific of Star Trek, to assume that all intelligent life forms will have a body structure resembling the highly anomalous and barely functional vertical-vertebrate form of our own lineage. &nbsp;Curiously, interspecial mestizos such as Mr. Spock and B'lana Torres become less problematic, once one allows that evolution throughout the galaxy must necessarily follow one particular chemical/physical path.</p><p>
"Crack-crazed chicken," by the way, sounds like the name of an interesting new recipe, off limits to vegans and those with scruples about using controlled substances ...

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>&quot;crack-crazed chicken&quot;</strong></p><p>Nice post, BioD. &nbsp;However so little you may have remembered from the movie-viewing, it is plenty interesting.</p><p>
A taste-test of algae oil is not something that I would look forward to.</p><p>
As a fan of Neil Young and (to a lesser extent) Willie Nelson, I do not hold these little enthusiasms of theirs against them.</p><p>
As a fan of Star Trek, though, I freely admit that the way its writers go about creating stories, involving heroizing the military/industrial complex, is disturbing. &nbsp;And the "universal translator" is at least as challenging a technological innovation as warp drive, demolecularization transport and holodecks, though it receives much less attention. &nbsp;Still, story-telling has required that kind of suspension of disbelief forever, presumably; certainly long before the age when the Greek-speakers Helen and Achilles chatted so effortlessly with Trojan-speakers Paris and Priam (whatever language Trojan might have been).</p><p>
But it is indeed rather anti-scientific of Star Trek, to assume that all intelligent life forms will have a body structure resembling the highly anomalous and barely functional vertical-vertebrate form of our own lineage. &nbsp;Curiously, interspecial mestizos such as Mr. Spock and B'lana Torres become less problematic, once one allows that evolution throughout the galaxy must necessarily follow one particular chemical/physical path.</p><p>
"Crack-crazed chicken," by the way, sounds like the name of an interesting new recipe, off limits to vegans and those with scruples about using controlled substances ...

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Erik Hoffner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 02:14:12 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>waste<p>No, I've been using waste derived biodiesel for over a year, and a combo of waste and virgin derived since before that, Russ. All as a function of availability.<p>
No worries about the misspelled name. I'm used to it after 37 years.<p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.oriongrassroots.org" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>waste<p>No, I've been using waste derived biodiesel for over a year, and a combo of waste and virgin derived since before that, Russ. All as a function of availability.<p>
No worries about the misspelled name. I'm used to it after 37 years.<p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.oriongrassroots.org" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by JMG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 02:55:04 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Update -- $7.21 for agrodiesel<p>Today's Oregonian reports that the latest price the Portland transit company is paying for rapeseed agrodiesel is $7.21 . . . but that the aid to the City Commissioner in charge of spinning this says that it's important to build the industry. &nbsp;Cuz we all know how well it works to get an industry addicted to an unsustainable business model . . . . 

<p>The <a href="http://is.gd/39gm" rel="nofollow">5% Project

Let's live on the planet as if we intend to stay.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Update -- $7.21 for agrodiesel<p>Today's Oregonian reports that the latest price the Portland transit company is paying for rapeseed agrodiesel is $7.21 . . . but that the aid to the City Commissioner in charge of spinning this says that it's important to build the industry. &nbsp;Cuz we all know how well it works to get an industry addicted to an unsustainable business model . . . . 

<p>The <a href="http://is.gd/39gm" rel="nofollow">5% Project

Let's live on the planet as if we intend to stay.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 13:33:57 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Good one<p>New holiday recipe idea--Crack-crazed chicken.<p>
$7.21? The Safeway near me is selling a 5% biodiesel blend for $2.71. Not only is Oregon exacerbating global warming, they are screwing their taxpayers doing it.<p>
Here's a company in that neck of the woods making it out of waste, or at least &nbsp;mostly:<p>
<a href="http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2008/06/grease_shortage_worries_oregon.html" rel="nofollow">SeQuential Biofuels<p>
The Veggie Van on display in front of the theater had been fueled with it.<p>
Grease theft appears to have become a big problem as more and more people covet that over virgin oils.<p>
Here is an excerpt from an email to local electric car enthusiasts from Tim Stearns, a Senior Energy Policy Specialist in the Washington Department of Community, Trade and economic Development:<p>
In 2006 the legislature adopted a Renewable Fuel Standard that will require 2% of fuel supplies to come from biofuels. The state is actively participating in a number of efforts to improve the energy balance and carbon content of all fuels. &nbsp;Biofuels have been unjustly scapegoated for the rise in fuel prices; however, we need to work to ensure biofuels are sustainable.<br>
...<br>
Right now I envision the market including ... the current biofuels, but in the future using better Energy Balance biofuels.<p>
First, I'm curious to see how the state is actively improving the energy balance and carbon content of biofuels.<p>
Next, did he mean "food" prices when he said biofuels have been unjustly scapegoated? And if he believes that, is he at odds with Inslee or was Inslee just blowing smoke?<p>
And finally, it is obvious that they plan to keep on using agrofuels until something better comes along, which may never happen and surely won't happen in the near future. The planet would be better off if they just went back to oil. As bad as it is, it is the least of two evils.<p>
Washington State's King County Metro has stopped using biodiesel, partly because of cost and partly due to concerns about the latest science. Oregon is suddenly no longer leading the way. It is speeding down a blind alley having taken a wrong turn and is starting to look rather naive and unenlightened given all the new information that has come to light.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></p></p></br></br></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Good one<p>New holiday recipe idea--Crack-crazed chicken.<p>
$7.21? The Safeway near me is selling a 5% biodiesel blend for $2.71. Not only is Oregon exacerbating global warming, they are screwing their taxpayers doing it.<p>
Here's a company in that neck of the woods making it out of waste, or at least &nbsp;mostly:<p>
<a href="http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2008/06/grease_shortage_worries_oregon.html" rel="nofollow">SeQuential Biofuels<p>
The Veggie Van on display in front of the theater had been fueled with it.<p>
Grease theft appears to have become a big problem as more and more people covet that over virgin oils.<p>
Here is an excerpt from an email to local electric car enthusiasts from Tim Stearns, a Senior Energy Policy Specialist in the Washington Department of Community, Trade and economic Development:<p>
In 2006 the legislature adopted a Renewable Fuel Standard that will require 2% of fuel supplies to come from biofuels. The state is actively participating in a number of efforts to improve the energy balance and carbon content of all fuels. &nbsp;Biofuels have been unjustly scapegoated for the rise in fuel prices; however, we need to work to ensure biofuels are sustainable.<br>
...<br>
Right now I envision the market including ... the current biofuels, but in the future using better Energy Balance biofuels.<p>
First, I'm curious to see how the state is actively improving the energy balance and carbon content of biofuels.<p>
Next, did he mean "food" prices when he said biofuels have been unjustly scapegoated? And if he believes that, is he at odds with Inslee or was Inslee just blowing smoke?<p>
And finally, it is obvious that they plan to keep on using agrofuels until something better comes along, which may never happen and surely won't happen in the near future. The planet would be better off if they just went back to oil. As bad as it is, it is the least of two evils.<p>
Washington State's King County Metro has stopped using biodiesel, partly because of cost and partly due to concerns about the latest science. Oregon is suddenly no longer leading the way. It is speeding down a blind alley having taken a wrong turn and is starting to look rather naive and unenlightened given all the new information that has come to light.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></p></p></br></br></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by JMG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-power-of-peaceful-protest/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 16:00:13 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>If they're so good ... <p>Then why do we have "to work to ensure biofuels are sustainable?" &nbsp;<p>
And why in hell are we pouring money into subsidizing something that even its biggest fans keep inadvertently admitting is not sustainable?

<p>The <a href="http://is.gd/39gm" rel="nofollow">5% Project

Let's live on the planet as if we intend to stay.</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>If they're so good ... <p>Then why do we have "to work to ensure biofuels are sustainable?" &nbsp;<p>
And why in hell are we pouring money into subsidizing something that even its biggest fans keep inadvertently admitting is not sustainable?

<p>The <a href="http://is.gd/39gm" rel="nofollow">5% Project

Let's live on the planet as if we intend to stay.</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
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