<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for The paper of record identifies—sort of—a new trend]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by PermieWriter http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:01:30 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/1 Share-a-gardener

A business has just started up in San Francisco with the same model. I think it's a great idea. It gives well-paying work to a farmer who can't afford their own land, fresh, uber-local veggies to someone who can afford to pay a premium for them and uses land that would otherwise be planted in lawn or ornamentals for food. Sure, it sounds silly to those of us who love to garden, but some people just don't make it a priority. But I bet a lot of those folks' kids will grow up fascinated by food gardening.

Eat what you grow, grow what you eat

]]> Share-a-gardener

A business has just started up in San Francisco with the same model. I think it's a great idea. It gives well-paying work to a farmer who can't afford their own land, fresh, uber-local veggies to someone who can afford to pay a premium for them and uses land that would otherwise be planted in lawn or ornamentals for food. Sure, it sounds silly to those of us who love to garden, but some people just don't make it a priority. But I bet a lot of those folks' kids will grow up fascinated by food gardening.

Eat what you grow, grow what you eat

]]> Comment #2 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:50:59 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/2 Land Grab

The history of 20th century United States is that of the combines grabbing land that had been originally given to citizens during the 18th.   The Powers-That-Be sought to remove the independent pioneers and make them dependent wards of the state...that effort is alive in the efforts of Big City types like Mayor Nichels who want to herd everyone into cattle car sized condos and tax them to death for light rail.  

We need to re-agrarianize the American family -- falling real estate will help.

]]> Land Grab

The history of 20th century United States is that of the combines grabbing land that had been originally given to citizens during the 18th.   The Powers-That-Be sought to remove the independent pioneers and make them dependent wards of the state...that effort is alive in the efforts of Big City types like Mayor Nichels who want to herd everyone into cattle car sized condos and tax them to death for light rail.  

We need to re-agrarianize the American family -- falling real estate will help.

]]> Comment #3 by Bart Anderson http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:55:20 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/3 Bogus framing from NY Times

Tom: Outsourcing one's veggie garden seems like a prime example of this hyper-consumerist take on local food.

Careful not to be sucked into this bogus framing of the issue from Kim Severson.  Think about it, should one really listen to NY Times, that bastion of ostentatious consumerism, when they begin to lecture about self-sufficiency?

This is a non-issue, framed with faux-populism.

Anyone who has gardened knows how labor-intensive it is. Some people like to do it as a hobby, others don't. Still others do not have the time. Nowhere is it written that you must garden yourself.  This is why we invented the division of labor, so that we can specialize in what we do best.

Is it not a good thing to support local organic gardeners? Is it not a good thing to encourage vegetable gardens?

In the past it was very common for people who could afford it to pay gardeners to raise fruit and vegetables for the household. Yes, this can be a status thing, but isn't raising vegetables a great way to harness the propensity for status seeking?

Severson seems to be on an anti-local kick this week. See her article yesterday criticizing the Slow Food movement: Slow Food Savors Its Big Moment

Bart
Energy Bulletin

]]> Bogus framing from NY Times

Tom: Outsourcing one's veggie garden seems like a prime example of this hyper-consumerist take on local food.

Careful not to be sucked into this bogus framing of the issue from Kim Severson.  Think about it, should one really listen to NY Times, that bastion of ostentatious consumerism, when they begin to lecture about self-sufficiency?

This is a non-issue, framed with faux-populism.

Anyone who has gardened knows how labor-intensive it is. Some people like to do it as a hobby, others don't. Still others do not have the time. Nowhere is it written that you must garden yourself.  This is why we invented the division of labor, so that we can specialize in what we do best.

Is it not a good thing to support local organic gardeners? Is it not a good thing to encourage vegetable gardens?

In the past it was very common for people who could afford it to pay gardeners to raise fruit and vegetables for the household. Yes, this can be a status thing, but isn't raising vegetables a great way to harness the propensity for status seeking?

Severson seems to be on an anti-local kick this week. See her article yesterday criticizing the Slow Food movement: Slow Food Savors Its Big Moment

Bart
Energy Bulletin

]]> Comment #4 by sindark http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:41:01 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/4 Carless

Having chosen not to get a car - partly for environmental reasons - it is a bit rich to hear people saying that I should head way out of town to farmer's markets.

Middlemen who make local food available to those dependent on bikes and public transport thus play a valuable role.

a sibilant intake of breath

]]> Carless

Having chosen not to get a car - partly for environmental reasons - it is a bit rich to hear people saying that I should head way out of town to farmer's markets.

Middlemen who make local food available to those dependent on bikes and public transport thus play a valuable role.

a sibilant intake of breath

]]> Comment #5 by Rainbow http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:56:07 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/5 out-of-town market?

Guess I'm fortunate - my local farm market is just that - LOCAL! I can walk to it. It's right downtown a block behind main street. And they aren't "middle-men", the farmers themselves (and/or their family members) bring the veggies to me!

Rainbow
"Setting an example is not the main means of influencing another, it is the only means." Albert Einstein


]]> out-of-town market?

Guess I'm fortunate - my local farm market is just that - LOCAL! I can walk to it. It's right downtown a block behind main street. And they aren't "middle-men", the farmers themselves (and/or their family members) bring the veggies to me!

Rainbow
"Setting an example is not the main means of influencing another, it is the only means." Albert Einstein


]]> Comment #6 by Rainbow http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:59:26 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/6 CSA?

Maybe you & a friend or two could go in together & buy a share in a CSA. Then they would bring the veggies to your door, or, if they don't offer that (some don't) you could carpool to pick up. Best wishes to you!

Rainbow
"Setting an example is not the main means of influencing another, it is the only means." Albert Einstein


]]> CSA?

Maybe you & a friend or two could go in together & buy a share in a CSA. Then they would bring the veggies to your door, or, if they don't offer that (some don't) you could carpool to pick up. Best wishes to you!

Rainbow
"Setting an example is not the main means of influencing another, it is the only means." Albert Einstein


]]> Comment #7 by katakanadian http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:50:39 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/7 A paid gardener probably doesn't reduce food miles

I've been really bothered the last few years at the massive increase in gardening services around here. These entrepreneurs hop in big trucks dragging trailer-loads of tools and drive all over town to prop up the egos of lazy status-seekers. When you think about the small amount of produce from a back garden relative to the distance typically driven by the gardener, I wouldn't be surprised if the energy intensity of lazy locavore garden is actually worse.

I am skeptical that that these services are anything more than greenwashing unless they have a strict policy of only taking clients within biking distance of their base.

]]> A paid gardener probably doesn't reduce food miles

I've been really bothered the last few years at the massive increase in gardening services around here. These entrepreneurs hop in big trucks dragging trailer-loads of tools and drive all over town to prop up the egos of lazy status-seekers. When you think about the small amount of produce from a back garden relative to the distance typically driven by the gardener, I wouldn't be surprised if the energy intensity of lazy locavore garden is actually worse.

I am skeptical that that these services are anything more than greenwashing unless they have a strict policy of only taking clients within biking distance of their base.

]]> Comment #8 by TheJewAndTheCarrot http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:50:19 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/8 Why bother?

Isn't Lazy locavore a little to time consuming to say?  As long as we're being slackers around here, why not just shorten it to lazyvore?  Oxford Dictionary word of the year 2008?  :)

http://jcarrot.org/has-locavore-jumped-the-sustainably-ra ...

Leah
The Jew & The Carrot

]]> Why bother?

Isn't Lazy locavore a little to time consuming to say?  As long as we're being slackers around here, why not just shorten it to lazyvore?  Oxford Dictionary word of the year 2008?  :)

http://jcarrot.org/has-locavore-jumped-the-sustainably-ra ...

Leah
The Jew & The Carrot

]]> Comment #9 by Tauger http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:37:12 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/9 A good thing

The average lawn is a toxic waste dump, loaded with fertilizers, pesticides and is a massive consumer of water much less the amount of fuel needed to keep the mowers running. By turning those 1/4 acre dumps into productive farmland, everyone wins.

As far as buying half a cow or pig, it's nothing new. My parents did that all the time when we were growing up. It's also very common in Germany. The author's astonishment at such a practice only underlines their ignorance of food production.

Tom, saying that "But surely the roving gardener's clients aren't challenging the production/consumption divide.........." ignores the reality of many people's lives. In the end, local food is local food, even if the growing of it is "outsourced".

Why the need to attack such people?

]]> A good thing

The average lawn is a toxic waste dump, loaded with fertilizers, pesticides and is a massive consumer of water much less the amount of fuel needed to keep the mowers running. By turning those 1/4 acre dumps into productive farmland, everyone wins.

As far as buying half a cow or pig, it's nothing new. My parents did that all the time when we were growing up. It's also very common in Germany. The author's astonishment at such a practice only underlines their ignorance of food production.

Tom, saying that "But surely the roving gardener's clients aren't challenging the production/consumption divide.........." ignores the reality of many people's lives. In the end, local food is local food, even if the growing of it is "outsourced".

Why the need to attack such people?

]]> Comment #10 by Bart Anderson http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:28:43 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/10 Culture Wars

Tauger: Why the need to attack such people?

I think we are in the midst of culture wars, and NYT journalist Kim Severson seems to have a chip on her shoulder about the eat-local movement. Rather than attack it directly, she is concentrating on irrelevant issues.

The Wall Street Journal just published a less tendentious article on the same subject:
The Vegetable Patch Goes Luxe by Ellen Gamerman.

One thing to keep in mind is that food trends seem to start at the top. The US/European elite until recently went in for white bread, meat and fatty foods. So, when industrial agriculture made it possible, all the other classes followed them.

The move to organics and local food came first from the idealistic-hippie movements. The elite have picked it up, and gradually the ideas are spreading throughout society.

Fortunately, healthy organic food is within the reach of most people. You just have to be willing to shop around for inexpensive healthy food, or have a garden (or know someone who does). And you've got to be willing to put the effort into preparing the food (get some good knives).

Example. Instead of buying processed breakfast cereal, buy bulk organic rolled oats.  Cook or eat raw. I prefer rolled oats soaked in water/milk with yogurt on top. Add raisins, fruit or nuts. Heavenly.

Bart
Energy Bulletin


]]> Culture Wars

Tauger: Why the need to attack such people?

I think we are in the midst of culture wars, and NYT journalist Kim Severson seems to have a chip on her shoulder about the eat-local movement. Rather than attack it directly, she is concentrating on irrelevant issues.

The Wall Street Journal just published a less tendentious article on the same subject:
The Vegetable Patch Goes Luxe by Ellen Gamerman.

One thing to keep in mind is that food trends seem to start at the top. The US/European elite until recently went in for white bread, meat and fatty foods. So, when industrial agriculture made it possible, all the other classes followed them.

The move to organics and local food came first from the idealistic-hippie movements. The elite have picked it up, and gradually the ideas are spreading throughout society.

Fortunately, healthy organic food is within the reach of most people. You just have to be willing to shop around for inexpensive healthy food, or have a garden (or know someone who does). And you've got to be willing to put the effort into preparing the food (get some good knives).

Example. Instead of buying processed breakfast cereal, buy bulk organic rolled oats.  Cook or eat raw. I prefer rolled oats soaked in water/milk with yogurt on top. Add raisins, fruit or nuts. Heavenly.

Bart
Energy Bulletin


]]> Comment #11 by sculpin http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:55:34 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/11 I'm a lazy locavore?

I outsourced my vegetable garden last year to the Seattle Urban Farm Company. Lazy? Maybe, but not so much lazy as gimpy: injuring a hip put a crimp in my gardening plans for most of a year. There are a lot of us out there who are in no shape to remove a lawn, and you wouldn't necessarily know it to look at us. As Tauger put it, that's the reality of people's lives.

I don't think I'm particularly interested in rarefied consumption. (If I were, I'd probably have a better haircut.) I just wanted some vegetables from my front yard, and I wanted them relatively painlessly.

I have no complaints, by the way. SUFCo built two extraordinarily good-looking raised beds, installed some drip lines, and planted fall crops, including some that I'd never thought of growing but which worked out beautifully. They did a little bit of maintenance before I took that on entirely. They also built a chicken coop with my husband and me, which now houses three charming pullets.

The SUFCo folks were almost as much gardening tutors/consultants for us as they were gardeners; they were generous with their knowledge, and we took as much advantage of that as we could. Several months later, when my hip had mostly healed, I was able to take a lot of what I'd learned and put in five more raised beds along the same lines. Now some of our neighbors are copying that bed design, too.

Colin of SUFCo once mentioned to me a dream of having maintenance gardeners on bicycles with trailers full of tools, pedaling from garden to garden. Sounds pretty neat to me.

From what I heard, I was a pretty normal customer of those guys. It would be interesting to see how many customers of such gardeners are full-blown yuppies who aren't at all "rethinking their place in the production/consumption divide", and how many just needed some help getting off the ground. I could rethink things just fine, thanks. It was the actual shovelwork that was giving me a hard time.

]]> I'm a lazy locavore?

I outsourced my vegetable garden last year to the Seattle Urban Farm Company. Lazy? Maybe, but not so much lazy as gimpy: injuring a hip put a crimp in my gardening plans for most of a year. There are a lot of us out there who are in no shape to remove a lawn, and you wouldn't necessarily know it to look at us. As Tauger put it, that's the reality of people's lives.

I don't think I'm particularly interested in rarefied consumption. (If I were, I'd probably have a better haircut.) I just wanted some vegetables from my front yard, and I wanted them relatively painlessly.

I have no complaints, by the way. SUFCo built two extraordinarily good-looking raised beds, installed some drip lines, and planted fall crops, including some that I'd never thought of growing but which worked out beautifully. They did a little bit of maintenance before I took that on entirely. They also built a chicken coop with my husband and me, which now houses three charming pullets.

The SUFCo folks were almost as much gardening tutors/consultants for us as they were gardeners; they were generous with their knowledge, and we took as much advantage of that as we could. Several months later, when my hip had mostly healed, I was able to take a lot of what I'd learned and put in five more raised beds along the same lines. Now some of our neighbors are copying that bed design, too.

Colin of SUFCo once mentioned to me a dream of having maintenance gardeners on bicycles with trailers full of tools, pedaling from garden to garden. Sounds pretty neat to me.

From what I heard, I was a pretty normal customer of those guys. It would be interesting to see how many customers of such gardeners are full-blown yuppies who aren't at all "rethinking their place in the production/consumption divide", and how many just needed some help getting off the ground. I could rethink things just fine, thanks. It was the actual shovelwork that was giving me a hard time.

]]> Comment #12 by MAD MAC http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/ Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:01:50 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-nyts-lazy-locavores/12 Bart, sometimes you don't have time to...

...."put the effort into preparing the food."

when I was in the Army I worked long hours, and had neither the time nor energy to do meaningful food preparation at home. When I was in the field, obviously I didn't even get to decide what to eat.

Sometimes the whole organic movement just isn't realistic about feasible options.

Victory in Pattani

]]> Bart, sometimes you don't have time to...

...."put the effort into preparing the food."

when I was in the Army I worked long hours, and had neither the time nor energy to do meaningful food preparation at home. When I was in the field, obviously I didn't even get to decide what to eat.

Sometimes the whole organic movement just isn't realistic about feasible options.

Victory in Pattani

]]>