<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for A new report lays a road map for creating green jobs while fighting the climate crisis]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by GreenEngineer http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/ Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:13:14 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/1 sounds good but

The 10% energy efficiency savings by 2020 seems rather modest compared to everything else, and relative to what is clearly feasible.

Of greater concern, though, is 25% of our nation's transportation fuels (to be alternative low-carbon fuels) by 2025.  Unless you include electricity as a "fuel", I'm not sure what they are expecting to see here.  There ain't no way in hell that we're going to get 5 million barrels per day of biofuels by 2025, or ever.

Maybe I am misunderstanding their intent.

]]> sounds good but

The 10% energy efficiency savings by 2020 seems rather modest compared to everything else, and relative to what is clearly feasible.

Of greater concern, though, is 25% of our nation's transportation fuels (to be alternative low-carbon fuels) by 2025.  Unless you include electricity as a "fuel", I'm not sure what they are expecting to see here.  There ain't no way in hell that we're going to get 5 million barrels per day of biofuels by 2025, or ever.

Maybe I am misunderstanding their intent.

]]> Comment #2 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/ Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:26:35 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/2 Hurricane Specialist

I think one of the new Green Jobs, could be Hurricane Specialist.   You see, as we all know, Global Warming will heat us up and up and up, and then there will be more and more hurricanes.  So, a Hurricane Specialist could study them, and, um...yes...what is it?  

<Long Pause>.

Oh.

I see.   This just in:

US virtually unscathed by '07 hurricanes

My Log

]]> Hurricane Specialist

I think one of the new Green Jobs, could be Hurricane Specialist.   You see, as we all know, Global Warming will heat us up and up and up, and then there will be more and more hurricanes.  So, a Hurricane Specialist could study them, and, um...yes...what is it?  

<Long Pause>.

Oh.

I see.   This just in:

US virtually unscathed by '07 hurricanes

My Log

]]> Comment #3 by randino http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/ Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:09:30 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/3 Oh my God!

Something bold! Kill it before it multiplies!

Randy Cunningham

Randy Cunningham

]]> Oh my God!

Something bold! Kill it before it multiplies!

Randy Cunningham

Randy Cunningham

]]> Comment #4 by Bart Anderson http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/ Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:38:27 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/4 Warmer, warmer, gettting warmer

These policy suggestions are getting better, but we are still quite a ways from reality:

No mention of peak oil or other energy resource constraints. These will affect the viability and timing of alternatives, so omitting the issue means that the planning will not be realistic. Some oil execs and international agencies are finally getting onboard with the idea of peak oil (they call it "the end of cheap oil"), so it is time for environmentalists to start incorporating it into their analyses.

Keeping motoring cheap for Americans still figures as the centerpiece of energy policy. Fortunately the authors diplomatically demote corn ethanol to be merely a "transitional" measure. Switchgrass is seen as potentially a great answer. But is anyone seriously considering what the soil and ecological considerations would be for massive switchgrass plantations cultivated in perpetuity? Or what the effects would be on food supply?

If we are serious about doing something about climate change, we've got to reduce consumption and waste. The report does mention efficiency, but it somehow gets lost in the enthusiasm for jobs and new forms of fuel.

I imagine that at least some authors of the document are aware of these issues, but political considerations trump serious analysis here.

But this is the way things go... reality trickles into the political arena a little at a time. We've got some bitter truths ahead of us, and one doesn't win political campaigns by drawing attention to them.

Bart
Energy Bulletin

]]> Warmer, warmer, gettting warmer

These policy suggestions are getting better, but we are still quite a ways from reality:

No mention of peak oil or other energy resource constraints. These will affect the viability and timing of alternatives, so omitting the issue means that the planning will not be realistic. Some oil execs and international agencies are finally getting onboard with the idea of peak oil (they call it "the end of cheap oil"), so it is time for environmentalists to start incorporating it into their analyses.

Keeping motoring cheap for Americans still figures as the centerpiece of energy policy. Fortunately the authors diplomatically demote corn ethanol to be merely a "transitional" measure. Switchgrass is seen as potentially a great answer. But is anyone seriously considering what the soil and ecological considerations would be for massive switchgrass plantations cultivated in perpetuity? Or what the effects would be on food supply?

If we are serious about doing something about climate change, we've got to reduce consumption and waste. The report does mention efficiency, but it somehow gets lost in the enthusiasm for jobs and new forms of fuel.

I imagine that at least some authors of the document are aware of these issues, but political considerations trump serious analysis here.

But this is the way things go... reality trickles into the political arena a little at a time. We've got some bitter truths ahead of us, and one doesn't win political campaigns by drawing attention to them.

Bart
Energy Bulletin

]]> Comment #5 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/ Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:42:45 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/5 Hmmm

"Use carbon capture-and-storage systems for carbon emissions from coal"

A tragic boondoggle that plays into the hands of the coal lobby.  A diversion tactic by the coal industry.

"Eliminate federal tax breaks and subsidies for gas and oil industries"

Yes, this needs to happen for oil, but also for coal, fuel farming, and nukes.  Gas, not so much.  Gas should continue to be encouraged, especially conservation of gas by going to geo heat exchange heating/cooling. production of biogas from the waste stream, and conversion of coal to gas underground using bacteria.

Back to the drawing board with these parts of this presentation.  Academia must catch up with reality ASAP!  

Carbon cap and trade might work somehow if insider trading hedge fund scamming can be curtailed in this new trading system.  That is a tall order though, since the political and economic power behind hedge funds has grown so large.  Virtually every wealthy, powerful person (minimum investments are up in the multi hundred thousand  dollar range) in the political and corporate sphere relies on hedge funds to preserve and expand their personal fortunes.

It allows one plausible deniability on conflict of interest insider trading problems.  Take Martha Stewart for instance?  Do you think she still trades her own stocks?  Not very likely.  It all goes through hedge funds now.  People can slip their hedge fund friends inside information, at a party for instance, and not worry about the subsequent trades being linked back to them.  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Hmmm

"Use carbon capture-and-storage systems for carbon emissions from coal"

A tragic boondoggle that plays into the hands of the coal lobby.  A diversion tactic by the coal industry.

"Eliminate federal tax breaks and subsidies for gas and oil industries"

Yes, this needs to happen for oil, but also for coal, fuel farming, and nukes.  Gas, not so much.  Gas should continue to be encouraged, especially conservation of gas by going to geo heat exchange heating/cooling. production of biogas from the waste stream, and conversion of coal to gas underground using bacteria.

Back to the drawing board with these parts of this presentation.  Academia must catch up with reality ASAP!  

Carbon cap and trade might work somehow if insider trading hedge fund scamming can be curtailed in this new trading system.  That is a tall order though, since the political and economic power behind hedge funds has grown so large.  Virtually every wealthy, powerful person (minimum investments are up in the multi hundred thousand  dollar range) in the political and corporate sphere relies on hedge funds to preserve and expand their personal fortunes.

It allows one plausible deniability on conflict of interest insider trading problems.  Take Martha Stewart for instance?  Do you think she still trades her own stocks?  Not very likely.  It all goes through hedge funds now.  People can slip their hedge fund friends inside information, at a party for instance, and not worry about the subsequent trades being linked back to them.  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #6 by Sam Wells http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/ Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:39:38 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/the-job-creating-answer-to-global-warming/6 Amazed

Your ending thoughts about the financial markets and carbon trading were quite lucid.  

As to any special subsidy, I can think of one.  That would be to restructure tax payments from a huge, natural gas rig off in the Gulf of Mexico - maybe several.  Not Alaska and not imported LNG.  We'd want the gas not the crude oil (although you do get condensate and some very small amounts of crude).  If you believe natural gas is an acceptable Climate Change fuel as opposed to coal and liquid hydrocarbons, such a policy could be quite beneficial. If we could create the infrastructure to deliver more natural gas to people that would be a nice touch.  

Onward through the fog

]]> Amazed

Your ending thoughts about the financial markets and carbon trading were quite lucid.  

As to any special subsidy, I can think of one.  That would be to restructure tax payments from a huge, natural gas rig off in the Gulf of Mexico - maybe several.  Not Alaska and not imported LNG.  We'd want the gas not the crude oil (although you do get condensate and some very small amounts of crude).  If you believe natural gas is an acceptable Climate Change fuel as opposed to coal and liquid hydrocarbons, such a policy could be quite beneficial. If we could create the infrastructure to deliver more natural gas to people that would be a nice touch.  

Onward through the fog

]]>