<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Big Ethanol descends on Africa for land, water, and sympathetic governments]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by vakibs http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/ Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:21:51 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/1 grow your own biofuels

Encroaching on pristine forest lands in poor countries in Africa is a crime against humanity.

If one is desperate about bio-fuels, one should grow them in one's own garden.

Straining the land, water and soil fertility of a poor country in the name of keeping SUVs going is a shameless deal. This cannot be masqueraded as helping the poor country's economy to grow.

Anybody wants to make FDI in the third world ? He is welcome to make it in capital intensive industries, such as manufacturing .. please.

Let's think in terms of eco-dollars.

]]> grow your own biofuels

Encroaching on pristine forest lands in poor countries in Africa is a crime against humanity.

If one is desperate about bio-fuels, one should grow them in one's own garden.

Straining the land, water and soil fertility of a poor country in the name of keeping SUVs going is a shameless deal. This cannot be masqueraded as helping the poor country's economy to grow.

Anybody wants to make FDI in the third world ? He is welcome to make it in capital intensive industries, such as manufacturing .. please.

Let's think in terms of eco-dollars.

]]> Comment #2 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/ Thu, 30 Oct 2008 01:11:57 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/2 That's it Vakibs

Many people could make their own biofuel.  Biogas to backup their own solar and wind systems and to compress for plugin hybrid backup fuel. You collect high nitrogen waste and mix it with cellulosic waste in a digestor.

An individual family negative carbon footprint is possible.  Combined in a local smart grid and connected to the larger grid, this would provide a stable cure for GHG and high energy costs.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> That's it Vakibs

Many people could make their own biofuel.  Biogas to backup their own solar and wind systems and to compress for plugin hybrid backup fuel. You collect high nitrogen waste and mix it with cellulosic waste in a digestor.

An individual family negative carbon footprint is possible.  Combined in a local smart grid and connected to the larger grid, this would provide a stable cure for GHG and high energy costs.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Comment #3 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/ Thu, 30 Oct 2008 07:20:37 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/3 Nice article, Meredith

Nothing more authentic than a first hand account. I cannot see how small farmers are going to come out on top of this biofuel pyramid scheme.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Nice article, Meredith

Nothing more authentic than a first hand account. I cannot see how small farmers are going to come out on top of this biofuel pyramid scheme.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #4 by Taherah http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/ Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:10:23 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/4 Scary

Bioofuel can be so beneficial and it's exploitation can be so detrimental.  In singapore, the two biofuel plants claim that they use the husks of palm fruits that has already had its properties extracted.  Why dont we use the waste product of less easily perishible food items for the bio fuel plants if it is at all possible?  However this would take more effort and greed is always at hand in many companies and the main purpose of most corporations is to maximise profit with the least effort.  The scariest notion is that the poor will get poorer and will be further exploited. And the possible damage to the environment is unthinkable in terms of the amount of pesticides used to increase the production of the cash crops.  We have enough people starving and suffering.  I would appreciate it if anyone would advise me on what I should do to be proactive in making a difference.  I know that if all of us work together we could make a difference.  Please advise

The value of each person lies in the good he does

]]> Scary

Bioofuel can be so beneficial and it's exploitation can be so detrimental.  In singapore, the two biofuel plants claim that they use the husks of palm fruits that has already had its properties extracted.  Why dont we use the waste product of less easily perishible food items for the bio fuel plants if it is at all possible?  However this would take more effort and greed is always at hand in many companies and the main purpose of most corporations is to maximise profit with the least effort.  The scariest notion is that the poor will get poorer and will be further exploited. And the possible damage to the environment is unthinkable in terms of the amount of pesticides used to increase the production of the cash crops.  We have enough people starving and suffering.  I would appreciate it if anyone would advise me on what I should do to be proactive in making a difference.  I know that if all of us work together we could make a difference.  Please advise

The value of each person lies in the good he does

]]> Comment #5 by Meredith Niles http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/ Fri, 31 Oct 2008 04:05:29 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/5 Great comments

Thanks to everyone for their comments on this story.  I think that Vakibs and amazingdrx made some very interesting points to consider- the use of local biofuels.  One of the reasons "biofuels" are called agrofuels in Africa and other developing countries is to differentiate between biomass biofuels that many families have used for centuries as a means of cooking, like wood for example.  There are some very small scale projects I have heard about that try to produce biofuels in developing countries on a very local and small-scale for home consumption but unfortunately this is not the norm.  Regardless, this is why I state that I have no written off biofuels completely yet- there may be some beneficial applications for both the environment and small-scale farmers and families...but I keep waiting.

Taherah- I would advise you to try to visit some of the websites of the columnists that write for Grist and sign up to receive their action alerts and be on their web email lists.  Its a great way to start learning about the issues and to be able to contribute letters and other things when issues are arising.  Also- don't underestimate the power of doing something on a very local level in your own neighborhood even- a clean up group, a community garden, something or anything like that makes a big difference.

Meredith Niles Cool Foods Campaign Coordinator The Center for Food Safety http://www.coolfoodscampaign.org http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org

]]> Great comments

Thanks to everyone for their comments on this story.  I think that Vakibs and amazingdrx made some very interesting points to consider- the use of local biofuels.  One of the reasons "biofuels" are called agrofuels in Africa and other developing countries is to differentiate between biomass biofuels that many families have used for centuries as a means of cooking, like wood for example.  There are some very small scale projects I have heard about that try to produce biofuels in developing countries on a very local and small-scale for home consumption but unfortunately this is not the norm.  Regardless, this is why I state that I have no written off biofuels completely yet- there may be some beneficial applications for both the environment and small-scale farmers and families...but I keep waiting.

Taherah- I would advise you to try to visit some of the websites of the columnists that write for Grist and sign up to receive their action alerts and be on their web email lists.  Its a great way to start learning about the issues and to be able to contribute letters and other things when issues are arising.  Also- don't underestimate the power of doing something on a very local level in your own neighborhood even- a clean up group, a community garden, something or anything like that makes a big difference.

Meredith Niles Cool Foods Campaign Coordinator The Center for Food Safety http://www.coolfoodscampaign.org http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org

]]> Comment #6 by crisrich http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/ Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:23:53 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/the-ethics-of-ethanol/6 Reduction in consumption is the only solution

The most important phrase in the article is: "Most strikingly they wondered if the United States had considered trying to reduce its overall consumption of oil rather than simply trying to replace it with something else."

It seems that very few people know, that the automobile with an internal combustion engine is one of the most inefficient machines man has ever created. Only about 13% (yes, one three!) of the fuel consumed is actually used to move the car. 87% is wasted in all kinds of inefficiencies, starting with the maximum theoretical efficiency of the internal combustion engine of 33%, which is never reached. If you also consider that cars weigh more than 1,5 metric tons and very often are used to move around just one person of 80 kg (160 pounds, I think), the efficiency based on the moved person is about 1% !!! This is absurd.

When people cry out and get angry at increased gas prices because they won't be able to go on being so absurdly wasteful any more, it reminds me of badly educated and spoiled children who are finally confronted with boundaries but don't want to accept them.

]]> Reduction in consumption is the only solution

The most important phrase in the article is: "Most strikingly they wondered if the United States had considered trying to reduce its overall consumption of oil rather than simply trying to replace it with something else."

It seems that very few people know, that the automobile with an internal combustion engine is one of the most inefficient machines man has ever created. Only about 13% (yes, one three!) of the fuel consumed is actually used to move the car. 87% is wasted in all kinds of inefficiencies, starting with the maximum theoretical efficiency of the internal combustion engine of 33%, which is never reached. If you also consider that cars weigh more than 1,5 metric tons and very often are used to move around just one person of 80 kg (160 pounds, I think), the efficiency based on the moved person is about 1% !!! This is absurd.

When people cry out and get angry at increased gas prices because they won't be able to go on being so absurdly wasteful any more, it reminds me of badly educated and spoiled children who are finally confronted with boundaries but don't want to accept them.

]]>