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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for EIA maintains offshore drilling gains will be negligible]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by GreenEngineer</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:58:27 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>turn the question around</strong></p><p>You may ask why big oil hasn't gotten around to the 34 billion barrels already available to them offshore, given the staggering price for oil? The answer is pretty much the same reason why the EIA analyst told me that ending the federal moratorium is "certainly not going to make a difference in the next 10 years": It ain't easy being non-green offshore.</p><p>
This being the case, and given that they already have options for offshore development, why do the oil companies care about opening up more leases? &nbsp;What is the benefit to them, of having legal access to more oil which they don't have the equipment or manpower to develop? &nbsp;Are the proposed new leases easier to get to, or in some other way superior to the ones that they already have sitting around unused?<br>
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				<p><strong>turn the question around</strong></p><p>You may ask why big oil hasn't gotten around to the 34 billion barrels already available to them offshore, given the staggering price for oil? The answer is pretty much the same reason why the EIA analyst told me that ending the federal moratorium is "certainly not going to make a difference in the next 10 years": It ain't easy being non-green offshore.</p><p>
This being the case, and given that they already have options for offshore development, why do the oil companies care about opening up more leases? &nbsp;What is the benefit to them, of having legal access to more oil which they don't have the equipment or manpower to develop? &nbsp;Are the proposed new leases easier to get to, or in some other way superior to the ones that they already have sitting around unused?<br>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Sam Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:04:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>I dunno</strong></p><p>As much as easing some restrictions in the GOM (Gulf of Mexico) may help, the rather sad fact is that the GOM is basically "holding its own" ... the EIA figures could indeed be a little on the optimistic side. I don't think anyone in the industry views this as a panacea - although rather interesting to hear the urban myths that Big Oil is sitting on massive GOM oil deposits to run up the price, or that somehow the fields could be developed quicker. You try to build a deepwater spar or floater rig and see how long it takes from construction to actual drilling - ten years isn't that unrealistic (some types of rigs can be moved about though). &nbsp;</p><p>
Whoever said that "opening the GOM" would instantly drive up supply, drive down prices, and fix out economy was nuts. Trying to leverage it for a few more basis points (percent volume) is about all we can hope for ... then those fields will mature and die off and we'd better have a full-blown clean power program ready for when it does. That's the Law of Diminishing Returns, baby.<br>
-sam

<p>Onward through the fog</p></br></p>
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				<p><strong>I dunno</strong></p><p>As much as easing some restrictions in the GOM (Gulf of Mexico) may help, the rather sad fact is that the GOM is basically "holding its own" ... the EIA figures could indeed be a little on the optimistic side. I don't think anyone in the industry views this as a panacea - although rather interesting to hear the urban myths that Big Oil is sitting on massive GOM oil deposits to run up the price, or that somehow the fields could be developed quicker. You try to build a deepwater spar or floater rig and see how long it takes from construction to actual drilling - ten years isn't that unrealistic (some types of rigs can be moved about though). &nbsp;</p><p>
Whoever said that "opening the GOM" would instantly drive up supply, drive down prices, and fix out economy was nuts. Trying to leverage it for a few more basis points (percent volume) is about all we can hope for ... then those fields will mature and die off and we'd better have a full-blown clean power program ready for when it does. That's the Law of Diminishing Returns, baby.<br>
-sam

<p>Onward through the fog</p></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Laurence Aurbach</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:15:25 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Promise us the moon and stars<p>The EIA numbers are suspect right off the bat. Look at their chart, Figure 20. Lower 48 offshore production hits bottom in 2005, then immediately begins a rapid climb. By 2008, we are producing 37 percent more than we did in 2005, according to the EIA.<p>
The reality? Lower 48 production has <a href="http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_crd_crpdn_adc_mbbl_m.htm" rel="nofollow">decreased more than 10 percent since 2005. <p>
Remember, that is including the effects of Hurricane Katrina, which cut Louisiana's offshore production in half from Sept-Nov 2005. Also, the decline has occurred as the Bush administration has opened large areas to drilling in the central and eastern Gulf of Mexico.<p>
The EIA has <a href="http://www.aspo-usa.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=378&amp;Itemid=91" rel="nofollow">a record of excessively optimistic forecasts, and it's likely this chart is the same.

<p><a href="http://pedshed.net" rel="nofollow">Ped Shed Blog</a></p></a></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Promise us the moon and stars<p>The EIA numbers are suspect right off the bat. Look at their chart, Figure 20. Lower 48 offshore production hits bottom in 2005, then immediately begins a rapid climb. By 2008, we are producing 37 percent more than we did in 2005, according to the EIA.<p>
The reality? Lower 48 production has <a href="http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_crd_crpdn_adc_mbbl_m.htm" rel="nofollow">decreased more than 10 percent since 2005. <p>
Remember, that is including the effects of Hurricane Katrina, which cut Louisiana's offshore production in half from Sept-Nov 2005. Also, the decline has occurred as the Bush administration has opened large areas to drilling in the central and eastern Gulf of Mexico.<p>
The EIA has <a href="http://www.aspo-usa.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=378&amp;Itemid=91" rel="nofollow">a record of excessively optimistic forecasts, and it's likely this chart is the same.

<p><a href="http://pedshed.net" rel="nofollow">Ped Shed Blog</a></p></a></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by birdboy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 11:10:22 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>symbolic</strong></p><p>Why would the oil companies want the moratorium &nbsp;lifted when they can't even use the permits they have? Why are they (Bushies) pushing so hard for it?</p><p>
It can only be symbolic- the sacrifice of environmental concerns for economic ones- to set a precedent for future rape of the land. Their victory is assured when the people give up on preserving nature's beauty for the promise of cheaper gasoline. And the mainstream media still refuses to reveal that we will gain nothing for this sacrifice.

<p>a liberal in redsville</p></p>
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				<p><strong>symbolic</strong></p><p>Why would the oil companies want the moratorium &nbsp;lifted when they can't even use the permits they have? Why are they (Bushies) pushing so hard for it?</p><p>
It can only be symbolic- the sacrifice of environmental concerns for economic ones- to set a precedent for future rape of the land. Their victory is assured when the people give up on preserving nature's beauty for the promise of cheaper gasoline. And the mainstream media still refuses to reveal that we will gain nothing for this sacrifice.

<p>a liberal in redsville</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Des Emery</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 11:54:40 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Oil Hoax</strong></p><p>It is interesting to check the 'figures' as given, but logic is more informative. &nbsp;</p><p>
The Alberta Tarsands just sat there for years. &nbsp;The oil companies all said it was too expensive to bring them into production when the price of gasoline was 'so low.' &nbsp;Guess what? &nbsp;The price has been artificially jacked up (we can't call it "speculation," can we?) so that even OPEC has no control within the industry anymore.</p><p>
What is the next big source of petroleum? &nbsp;Why, under the Arctic Ocean, with several nations jockeying for their 'fair share' of the resource. &nbsp;The melting of the Arctic ice will open the fields for exploitation soon, so why not begin to practice on other off-shore sources now, even though the volume of production will be somewhat on the insignificant side. &nbsp;

<p>Des Emery</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Oil Hoax</strong></p><p>It is interesting to check the 'figures' as given, but logic is more informative. &nbsp;</p><p>
The Alberta Tarsands just sat there for years. &nbsp;The oil companies all said it was too expensive to bring them into production when the price of gasoline was 'so low.' &nbsp;Guess what? &nbsp;The price has been artificially jacked up (we can't call it "speculation," can we?) so that even OPEC has no control within the industry anymore.</p><p>
What is the next big source of petroleum? &nbsp;Why, under the Arctic Ocean, with several nations jockeying for their 'fair share' of the resource. &nbsp;The melting of the Arctic ice will open the fields for exploitation soon, so why not begin to practice on other off-shore sources now, even though the volume of production will be somewhat on the insignificant side. &nbsp;

<p>Des Emery</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Jason D Scorse</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:52:02 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>What's even worse is that....<p>people seem not to understand that it's a world oil market- we'd be drilling for the Chinese and Indians as much as for us- people are simply ignorant about how energy markets work- the gains would be close to zero for U.S. prices.

<p>I teach environmental economics and blog at <a href="http://www.voicesofreason.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.voicesofreason.info.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>What's even worse is that....<p>people seem not to understand that it's a world oil market- we'd be drilling for the Chinese and Indians as much as for us- people are simply ignorant about how energy markets work- the gains would be close to zero for U.S. prices.

<p>I teach environmental economics and blog at <a href="http://www.voicesofreason.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.voicesofreason.info.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by randino</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:06:45 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Another Ghost Dance</strong></p><p>In the late 19th century the Native Americans rallied around a Paiute holy man, who prescribed a spiritual revival called the Ghost Dance. It promised to make the natives invulnerable to bullets, bring back the bison, and make the whites go away. It just gave whites another excuse to kill more natives and oppress them even more. </p><p>
This oil drilling proposal is the Ghost Dance of oil addicted Americans, who hope it will bring back the good old days. They will end up just as disappointed as the native americans were. </p><p>
Randy Cunningham<br>
Cleveland, OH

<p>Randy Cunningham</p></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Another Ghost Dance</strong></p><p>In the late 19th century the Native Americans rallied around a Paiute holy man, who prescribed a spiritual revival called the Ghost Dance. It promised to make the natives invulnerable to bullets, bring back the bison, and make the whites go away. It just gave whites another excuse to kill more natives and oppress them even more. </p><p>
This oil drilling proposal is the Ghost Dance of oil addicted Americans, who hope it will bring back the good old days. They will end up just as disappointed as the native americans were. </p><p>
Randy Cunningham<br>
Cleveland, OH

<p>Randy Cunningham</p></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:36:38 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Not only drilling for</strong></p><p>Oil for increased consumption in China Jason, but drilling for cheap oil.</p><p>
Gasoline and diesel in China and other nations where oil companies are state owned, costs less.</p><p>
This allegedly free "world oil market" has prices set according to government calculations of the effect on trade advantages from low fuel prices in their econmomies.</p><p>
If the chinese oil company sells gas at a loss, it doesn't matter, they are state owned and don't need to consider profit. &nbsp;The profit to the chinese economy as a whole, versus other competing nations, is the most important consideration.</p><p>
They boost their trade and manufacturing with lower than cost energy pricing and reap national security benefits through their currency manipulation. &nbsp;Just like the US did to Europe, with our formerly lower than cost energy and ag commodity pricing.</p><p>
This is why economists are always a few steps behind what is really happening. &nbsp;They ignore key factors like this, namely state ownership of multinationally active mega monopoly corporate power. &nbsp;And governments "owned" by big energy monopoly corporations, like the bushco administration. &nbsp;</p><p>
It just does not fit their incredibly mathematically complex, but over-simplistic "free" market theories.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Not only drilling for</strong></p><p>Oil for increased consumption in China Jason, but drilling for cheap oil.</p><p>
Gasoline and diesel in China and other nations where oil companies are state owned, costs less.</p><p>
This allegedly free "world oil market" has prices set according to government calculations of the effect on trade advantages from low fuel prices in their econmomies.</p><p>
If the chinese oil company sells gas at a loss, it doesn't matter, they are state owned and don't need to consider profit. &nbsp;The profit to the chinese economy as a whole, versus other competing nations, is the most important consideration.</p><p>
They boost their trade and manufacturing with lower than cost energy pricing and reap national security benefits through their currency manipulation. &nbsp;Just like the US did to Europe, with our formerly lower than cost energy and ag commodity pricing.</p><p>
This is why economists are always a few steps behind what is really happening. &nbsp;They ignore key factors like this, namely state ownership of multinationally active mega monopoly corporate power. &nbsp;And governments "owned" by big energy monopoly corporations, like the bushco administration. &nbsp;</p><p>
It just does not fit their incredibly mathematically complex, but over-simplistic "free" market theories.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by remember911</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:00:58 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cruel-offshore-drilling-hoax-part-1/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Remember 9/11 This Country Needs a Change</strong></p><p>The rouge countries who sell us our oil are trying to topple us as a world power, they will do it because of oil prices.</p><p>
We need to stop the fighting among ourselves. We must start drilling for more oil on, in and around our own lands. We then in return need to get going on alternative fuels in a super fast track way. With the help of alternative fuels. We can reduce our thirst for oil. At some point the oil we drill for will be used for certain needs. Jet fuel, roadways, plastics, etc. price will drop. we will never be able to get away from oil completely. We will need it for some products but why not from our own country or Canada. Then by having our own alternative fuels in place, using CNG (temp) price of natural gas will soar think about our home heating.<br>
Natural Gas can also come from Oil Drilling</p><p>
We need to get some vehicles turned over into electric, self recharging vehicles. When they drive they recharge no plug in at night. Then &nbsp;bio fuel cars and big rigs. Run them on natural oils and alcohol (ethanol) This would create many jobs in America, processing plants could be maintained within state lines, which in turn reduces transportation cost. </p><p>
Homes that are running heat on heating fuel (comes from oil) would have to be fazed out. Ban those type of furnaces. Homes could be heated with NG,NATURAL OILS,WOOD PELLETS, WOOD. </p><p>
The sad thing about all this is it is a political issue, Congress will always try to throw things in a bill. It is a this for that and then no one wins. This has been going on for years.</p><p>
Write your congress person and tell them to start doing there job or they will lose there job just like many Americans. Tell them your views keep them simple as they could get confused easily. Let them know how they vote will make a difference on how you vote. Everyone can contact congress by email. <br>
They need to hear from you. </p><p>
We The People need to stand up to CONGRESS. We pay there salary and healthcare, etc. <br>
I AM FOR MORE OIL, JUST GET IT GOING. DEFINITELY FOR ALTERNATIVE FUELS, SO WE NEED SO MUCH LESS OIL IN THE FUTURE.<br>
SOLAR, WIND, BIO, BUT WE WILL NEED MORE OIL and NG TO GET THERE.</br></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Remember 9/11 This Country Needs a Change</strong></p><p>The rouge countries who sell us our oil are trying to topple us as a world power, they will do it because of oil prices.</p><p>
We need to stop the fighting among ourselves. We must start drilling for more oil on, in and around our own lands. We then in return need to get going on alternative fuels in a super fast track way. With the help of alternative fuels. We can reduce our thirst for oil. At some point the oil we drill for will be used for certain needs. Jet fuel, roadways, plastics, etc. price will drop. we will never be able to get away from oil completely. We will need it for some products but why not from our own country or Canada. Then by having our own alternative fuels in place, using CNG (temp) price of natural gas will soar think about our home heating.<br>
Natural Gas can also come from Oil Drilling</p><p>
We need to get some vehicles turned over into electric, self recharging vehicles. When they drive they recharge no plug in at night. Then &nbsp;bio fuel cars and big rigs. Run them on natural oils and alcohol (ethanol) This would create many jobs in America, processing plants could be maintained within state lines, which in turn reduces transportation cost. </p><p>
Homes that are running heat on heating fuel (comes from oil) would have to be fazed out. Ban those type of furnaces. Homes could be heated with NG,NATURAL OILS,WOOD PELLETS, WOOD. </p><p>
The sad thing about all this is it is a political issue, Congress will always try to throw things in a bill. It is a this for that and then no one wins. This has been going on for years.</p><p>
Write your congress person and tell them to start doing there job or they will lose there job just like many Americans. Tell them your views keep them simple as they could get confused easily. Let them know how they vote will make a difference on how you vote. Everyone can contact congress by email. <br>
They need to hear from you. </p><p>
We The People need to stand up to CONGRESS. We pay there salary and healthcare, etc. <br>
I AM FOR MORE OIL, JUST GET IT GOING. DEFINITELY FOR ALTERNATIVE FUELS, SO WE NEED SO MUCH LESS OIL IN THE FUTURE.<br>
SOLAR, WIND, BIO, BUT WE WILL NEED MORE OIL and NG TO GET THERE.</br></br></br></br></p>
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