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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Oh what a relief it biz]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Pangolin</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 09:23:30 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Dow, Dupont and GM....</strong></p><p>Working together to clean up carbon emissions. Yeah, that's a sure winner.</p><p>
What is USCAP's position on energy generated by coal?<br>
Coal supplies over fifty percent of our current electricity generation and will play a continuing role in our energy future. The policies we support encourage the development and deployment of carbon capture and storage and other advanced coal technologies. <strong>We believe the construction of new plants should occur in a manner that will allow them to capture and store CO2 when the conditions exist to support its implementation.</strong> We do not take a position as a group on any specific project, even though as individual organizations many USCAP Members do have such positions. (emphasis mine) </p><p>
In short just keep on polluting. In fact implement that extra polluting as long as you pretend you'll fix it someday. Remember when California was going to get some Zero Emissions Vehicles made by big three automakers? Don't see to many of those driving around do you.</p><p>
I smell greenwash. I sure hope all those nice old folks in Florida can tread water.</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Dow, Dupont and GM....</strong></p><p>Working together to clean up carbon emissions. Yeah, that's a sure winner.</p><p>
What is USCAP's position on energy generated by coal?<br>
Coal supplies over fifty percent of our current electricity generation and will play a continuing role in our energy future. The policies we support encourage the development and deployment of carbon capture and storage and other advanced coal technologies. <strong>We believe the construction of new plants should occur in a manner that will allow them to capture and store CO2 when the conditions exist to support its implementation.</strong> We do not take a position as a group on any specific project, even though as individual organizations many USCAP Members do have such positions. (emphasis mine) </p><p>
In short just keep on polluting. In fact implement that extra polluting as long as you pretend you'll fix it someday. Remember when California was going to get some Zero Emissions Vehicles made by big three automakers? Don't see to many of those driving around do you.</p><p>
I smell greenwash. I sure hope all those nice old folks in Florida can tread water.</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Billhook</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 18:12:24 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Cap,  ALLOCATE &amp; Trade</strong></p><p>The worth of this approach depends, centrally, of the chosen structure of the Allocation of emission rights.</p><p>
Could people please help to get this perspective over by using the title above when writing about it ?</p><p>
Regards,</p><p>
Bill</p>
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				<p><strong>Cap,  ALLOCATE &amp; Trade</strong></p><p>The worth of this approach depends, centrally, of the chosen structure of the Allocation of emission rights.</p><p>
Could people please help to get this perspective over by using the title above when writing about it ?</p><p>
Regards,</p><p>
Bill</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by scanter</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 04:10:03 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>specific reduction target</strong></p><p>I agree we need to watch how policies are implemented. But the bottom line is, these companies have committed to a specific and mandatory national emissions cap. How could that be anything but good?</p><p>
Why are they doing it? They see the opportunity that comes with new technology (as do legions of venture capitalists). Plus a national cap is a easier to comply with than 50 different laws in 50 different states.<br>


<p>Sheryl Canter<br>
Environmental Defense
</p></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>specific reduction target</strong></p><p>I agree we need to watch how policies are implemented. But the bottom line is, these companies have committed to a specific and mandatory national emissions cap. How could that be anything but good?</p><p>
Why are they doing it? They see the opportunity that comes with new technology (as do legions of venture capitalists). Plus a national cap is a easier to comply with than 50 different laws in 50 different states.<br>


<p>Sheryl Canter<br>
Environmental Defense
</p></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Billhook</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 04:51:14 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>The bigger they are, the more windage . . . . .</strong></p><p>Sheryl,</p><p>
I'd fully agree with the motives you ascribe to these companies, and add a couple more possibilities.</p><p>
These are:</p><p>
1/. a lack of confidence in the efficacy of the Carbon Tax option, <br>
given both corporations' long expertise in avoiding taxes<br>
and the limited and tardy influence of such a tax on peoples' options, let alone their choices, and</p><p>
2/. a recognition that big business is itself utterly vulnerable to the sort of disruption &amp; loss that Climate Destabilization has begun to impose,<br>
and so it must lobby for a binding global cap &amp; decline of emissions ASAP,<br>
for which a national system of Cap, Allocate &amp; Trade is a logical sarting point. </p><p>
Regards,</p><p>
Billhook</br></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>The bigger they are, the more windage . . . . .</strong></p><p>Sheryl,</p><p>
I'd fully agree with the motives you ascribe to these companies, and add a couple more possibilities.</p><p>
These are:</p><p>
1/. a lack of confidence in the efficacy of the Carbon Tax option, <br>
given both corporations' long expertise in avoiding taxes<br>
and the limited and tardy influence of such a tax on peoples' options, let alone their choices, and</p><p>
2/. a recognition that big business is itself utterly vulnerable to the sort of disruption &amp; loss that Climate Destabilization has begun to impose,<br>
and so it must lobby for a binding global cap &amp; decline of emissions ASAP,<br>
for which a national system of Cap, Allocate &amp; Trade is a logical sarting point. </p><p>
Regards,</p><p>
Billhook</br></br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by NonprofitWatch</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 06:15:29 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/5</guid>
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				<p><strong> Plus let's not forget<p>the comment regarding the partnership that I found of interest in the NY Times article about the partnership.<p>
<br>
Timing also played a role in the executives' thinking. As Mr. Darbee [chief executive of PG&amp;E] said, ''<strong>We have the opportunity to construct something more pragmatic and realistic <strong>while President Bush is in office.'' A future political climate, after 2008, he said, might produce ''solutions less sensitive to the needs of business.''<br>
<br>
<a href="http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F50B12FD35540C7A8DDDA80894DF404482" rel="nofollow">http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F ...<p>
Unfortunately, I'm pretty cynical about the integrity and judgement of the two leading enviros &nbsp;involved in the partnership, Natural Resources Defense Council and Environmental Defense (Fund), and thus have reservations about this partnership, beyond my general concerns about the "carbon-trading" approach to addressing global warming.

<p>bernardo issel - <a href="http://www.NonprofitWatch.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.NonprofitWatch.org -
bernardo (at) NonprofitWatch.org
</a></p></p></a></br></br></strong></strong></br></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong> Plus let's not forget<p>the comment regarding the partnership that I found of interest in the NY Times article about the partnership.<p>
<br>
Timing also played a role in the executives' thinking. As Mr. Darbee [chief executive of PG&amp;E] said, ''<strong>We have the opportunity to construct something more pragmatic and realistic <strong>while President Bush is in office.'' A future political climate, after 2008, he said, might produce ''solutions less sensitive to the needs of business.''<br>
<br>
<a href="http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F50B12FD35540C7A8DDDA80894DF404482" rel="nofollow">http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F ...<p>
Unfortunately, I'm pretty cynical about the integrity and judgement of the two leading enviros &nbsp;involved in the partnership, Natural Resources Defense Council and Environmental Defense (Fund), and thus have reservations about this partnership, beyond my general concerns about the "carbon-trading" approach to addressing global warming.

<p>bernardo issel - <a href="http://www.NonprofitWatch.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.NonprofitWatch.org -
bernardo (at) NonprofitWatch.org
</a></p></p></a></br></br></strong></strong></br></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by scanter</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 07:32:18 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>win-win solutions work best<p>What's most important is that climate legislation accomplish what needs to accomplished, and the US-CAP Call for Action does this. US-CAP advocates national legislation for a reduction of greenhouse gas emissions (see <a href="http://www.us-cap.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.us-cap.org/). <p>
It's good for businesses to be able to meet emissions targets while keeping their businesses strong. A crippled economy is bad for everybody, and no one would cooperate if that was the price.<br>


<p>Sheryl Canter<br>
Environmental Defense
</br></p></br></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>win-win solutions work best<p>What's most important is that climate legislation accomplish what needs to accomplished, and the US-CAP Call for Action does this. US-CAP advocates national legislation for a reduction of greenhouse gas emissions (see <a href="http://www.us-cap.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.us-cap.org/). <p>
It's good for businesses to be able to meet emissions targets while keeping their businesses strong. A crippled economy is bad for everybody, and no one would cooperate if that was the price.<br>


<p>Sheryl Canter<br>
Environmental Defense
</br></p></br></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by lloydmorris</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 11:53:24 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>USCAP gives GM a freebie?</strong></p><p>With emphasis being on cap &amp; trade, will GM be given credit for all its E85 vehicles, even though few actually are run on E85 and even though US ethanol, being corn-based, isn't really green?</p>
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				<p><strong>USCAP gives GM a freebie?</strong></p><p>With emphasis being on cap &amp; trade, will GM be given credit for all its E85 vehicles, even though few actually are run on E85 and even though US ethanol, being corn-based, isn't really green?</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by SustainableGreen</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 16:25:03 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/the-cap-and-trade-boat-just-got-a-little-fuller/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Where are my payments?</strong></p><p>Hey, all:</p><p>
As one who has been off the grid and using sustainable energy for 9 years, I have only recently really become familiar with the Carbon offsets and the fact that people and corporations pay others for Carbon credits. &nbsp;So is my check in the mail? &nbsp;Or is the middleman in this transaction actually in the end, the destination? &nbsp;</p><p>
'Uh, yeah, you get a cut, sure, but my overhead, commission, expenses, license and fees just really kinda eats up any payments, so there really isn't any point in sending a check for nothing.' &nbsp;</p><p>
Or this:</p><p>
'Oh, of course, we are all about the little guy. &nbsp;Anyone who produces as little as 200,000 kiloWatt-hours qualifies for the program.' &nbsp;'Oh, you produce 4500 Watt-hours? &nbsp;Is this a prank call? &nbsp;Are you trying to punk me? &nbsp;You young whipper snappers! SSholes!'</p><p>
What a stinking joke. &nbsp;Yeah I smell greenwash, and it smells just like bullshit. &nbsp;Just like it.</p><p>
David<br>
Sustainability For Life</p><p>
Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Where are my payments?</strong></p><p>Hey, all:</p><p>
As one who has been off the grid and using sustainable energy for 9 years, I have only recently really become familiar with the Carbon offsets and the fact that people and corporations pay others for Carbon credits. &nbsp;So is my check in the mail? &nbsp;Or is the middleman in this transaction actually in the end, the destination? &nbsp;</p><p>
'Uh, yeah, you get a cut, sure, but my overhead, commission, expenses, license and fees just really kinda eats up any payments, so there really isn't any point in sending a check for nothing.' &nbsp;</p><p>
Or this:</p><p>
'Oh, of course, we are all about the little guy. &nbsp;Anyone who produces as little as 200,000 kiloWatt-hours qualifies for the program.' &nbsp;'Oh, you produce 4500 Watt-hours? &nbsp;Is this a prank call? &nbsp;Are you trying to punk me? &nbsp;You young whipper snappers! SSholes!'</p><p>
What a stinking joke. &nbsp;Yeah I smell greenwash, and it smells just like bullshit. &nbsp;Just like it.</p><p>
David<br>
Sustainability For Life</p><p>
Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!</br></p>
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