<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Congressional Dems consider preventing oil drilled offshore from export]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Jon Rynn http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/ Thu, 10 Jul 2008 03:54:31 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/1 Adam --

That's from the same NY Times article in the post below yours -- which is OK, I think, because there's enough in there for a dozen posts.  There's also something in there about subsidizing volunteer firefighters' gasoline.

One of the problems here may be that Congress will throw out anything, like global warming legislation, that gets in the way of what may turn into a mad rush to do "something", because they're scared that they'll get thrown out of office if they don't do "something" -- even though, as I said in my post, we're in a "the government shouldn't do anything" era of conventional wisdom.

]]> Adam --

That's from the same NY Times article in the post below yours -- which is OK, I think, because there's enough in there for a dozen posts.  There's also something in there about subsidizing volunteer firefighters' gasoline.

One of the problems here may be that Congress will throw out anything, like global warming legislation, that gets in the way of what may turn into a mad rush to do "something", because they're scared that they'll get thrown out of office if they don't do "something" -- even though, as I said in my post, we're in a "the government shouldn't do anything" era of conventional wisdom.

]]> Comment #2 by Wolverine http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/ Thu, 10 Jul 2008 07:41:27 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/2 Environmentally Destructive Lies

U.S. oil refineries are running at capacity, so where would this extra oil go, anyway?  All this crap about more drilling is just propaganda and has nothing to do with oil prices or supply.  And anyone who supports more drilling FOR ANY REASON supports further destruction of the Earth.  Period!

]]> Environmentally Destructive Lies

U.S. oil refineries are running at capacity, so where would this extra oil go, anyway?  All this crap about more drilling is just propaganda and has nothing to do with oil prices or supply.  And anyone who supports more drilling FOR ANY REASON supports further destruction of the Earth.  Period!

]]> Comment #3 by Bart Anderson http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/ Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:51:33 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/3 Taste of the future

The idea of American oil for Americans may be a taste of things to come.

As oil becomes scarcer and more expensive, nations will stop seeing it as "just another commodity" and start treating it as a critical source of political and economic power.  

Just as with grain, nations will impose export controls to make sure their own citizens have sufficient quantities.

Only problem for the U.S. is that we import more oil than we export. So, somehow we have to have export controls on our own oil, but convince other oil-producing nations NOT to impose export controls, so that we can continue importing from them.

Whether export controls are a good idea, I don't know. But I do think they're coming.

Similarly, with expanded drilling in America.  It's probably inevitable as the price of oil continues to rise.  I'm guessing the best strategy for environmentalists is to make sure the drilling is done in as environmentally responsible way as possible, and to make sure to get something meaningful in return, as Adam Stein suggests above.

I don't think Wolverine needs to be worried about whether the refineries will be running at full blast. Oil won't come from new drilling for 5-10 years, and by that time there should be plenty of capacity in the refineries, with worldwide oil production declining.

The question for me is whether we use this oil to sustain our oil-addicted ways, or whether we use it to make the transition to renewables and conservation.  

Bart
Energy Bulletin

]]> Taste of the future

The idea of American oil for Americans may be a taste of things to come.

As oil becomes scarcer and more expensive, nations will stop seeing it as "just another commodity" and start treating it as a critical source of political and economic power.  

Just as with grain, nations will impose export controls to make sure their own citizens have sufficient quantities.

Only problem for the U.S. is that we import more oil than we export. So, somehow we have to have export controls on our own oil, but convince other oil-producing nations NOT to impose export controls, so that we can continue importing from them.

Whether export controls are a good idea, I don't know. But I do think they're coming.

Similarly, with expanded drilling in America.  It's probably inevitable as the price of oil continues to rise.  I'm guessing the best strategy for environmentalists is to make sure the drilling is done in as environmentally responsible way as possible, and to make sure to get something meaningful in return, as Adam Stein suggests above.

I don't think Wolverine needs to be worried about whether the refineries will be running at full blast. Oil won't come from new drilling for 5-10 years, and by that time there should be plenty of capacity in the refineries, with worldwide oil production declining.

The question for me is whether we use this oil to sustain our oil-addicted ways, or whether we use it to make the transition to renewables and conservation.  

Bart
Energy Bulletin

]]> Comment #4 by Paleocon http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/ Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:43:21 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/4 Nailed it

"The question for me is whether we use this oil to sustain our oil-addicted ways, or whether we use it to make the transition to renewables and conservation.  "

Additional domestic oil should be sold under the "methadone" brand.

Often misunderestimated

]]> Nailed it

"The question for me is whether we use this oil to sustain our oil-addicted ways, or whether we use it to make the transition to renewables and conservation.  "

Additional domestic oil should be sold under the "methadone" brand.

Often misunderestimated

]]> Comment #5 by Jon Rynn http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/ Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:47:47 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/5 LOL, "methadone" a good word, Paleocon

]]> LOL, "methadone" a good word, Paleocon

]]> Comment #6 by Bart Anderson http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/ Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:42:31 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/6 A meme is born

Paleocon writes: Additional domestic oil should be sold under the "methadone" brand.

Love it!

Bart
Energy Bulletin

]]> A meme is born

Paleocon writes: Additional domestic oil should be sold under the "methadone" brand.

Love it!

Bart
Energy Bulletin

]]> Comment #7 by Wolverine http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/ Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:33:26 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/7 Environmentally Responsible Destruction?

Hmm, interesting concept Bart.  Unfortunately, there is no environmentally responsible way to drill for oil, or to transport, refine, or burn it.  It's all destructive.  I suppose one could spend his or her time and energy advocating for the least destructive methods, but that's certainly not my priority.

]]> Environmentally Responsible Destruction?

Hmm, interesting concept Bart.  Unfortunately, there is no environmentally responsible way to drill for oil, or to transport, refine, or burn it.  It's all destructive.  I suppose one could spend his or her time and energy advocating for the least destructive methods, but that's certainly not my priority.

]]> Comment #8 by Backcut http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/ Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:49:24 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/the-art-of-getting-nothing-for-something/8 For once

I totally agree with you, wolverine.

However, we just can't be keeping bigwig corporate oil billionaires from living their lives of greed and decadence while they still have us "hooked".        

(sarcasm)

Except for the first sentence. There's too much logic in trading in our cars for better, cheaper and cleaner ways of travel. Yes, most of us are car addicts.

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> For once

I totally agree with you, wolverine.

However, we just can't be keeping bigwig corporate oil billionaires from living their lives of greed and decadence while they still have us "hooked".        

(sarcasm)

Except for the first sentence. There's too much logic in trading in our cars for better, cheaper and cleaner ways of travel. Yes, most of us are car addicts.

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]>