<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Compressed air cans are contributing to ozone destruction]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by sindark http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/ Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:56:57 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/1 Moisture

There are circumstances where you need to blow something clean using a solvent that will not carry moisture. A key example is getting dust off circuit boards. Are there any non-GHG options for such applications? I expect that something neutral like compressed nitrogen would induce condensation when it expanded.

Do these sprays do the same thing? If not, why not?

a sibilant intake of breath

]]> Moisture

There are circumstances where you need to blow something clean using a solvent that will not carry moisture. A key example is getting dust off circuit boards. Are there any non-GHG options for such applications? I expect that something neutral like compressed nitrogen would induce condensation when it expanded.

Do these sprays do the same thing? If not, why not?

a sibilant intake of breath

]]> Comment #2 by Tasermons Partner http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/ Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:32:40 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/2 Thanks for the warning!

I haven't bought any of these yet, but my laptop is gettin' a little mucky at the keyboard, so I was considerin' it.

Now I know not to...or at least look for a product that doesn't have the same negative effects.

]]> Thanks for the warning!

I haven't bought any of these yet, but my laptop is gettin' a little mucky at the keyboard, so I was considerin' it.

Now I know not to...or at least look for a product that doesn't have the same negative effects.

]]> Comment #3 by Corey McKrill http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/ Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:59:55 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/3 Of course, the solution is 'out of stock'

Looks like they stopped making it or something...

ReAir Mini AC Compressor & Duster Combo

Why do the sustainable versions of products always sell out fast and then get discontinued? It's a conspiracy, I tell you...

Frequently asked technical questions about Grist's newsletters and website.

]]> Of course, the solution is 'out of stock'

Looks like they stopped making it or something...

ReAir Mini AC Compressor & Duster Combo

Why do the sustainable versions of products always sell out fast and then get discontinued? It's a conspiracy, I tell you...

Frequently asked technical questions about Grist's newsletters and website.

]]> Comment #4 by guade00 http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/ Sat, 28 Jun 2008 01:52:21 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/4 HFC, CFCs, etc.,

Wait--as I recall, HFCs were considered an environment-saving substance waybackwhen after the Montreal Protocol, whose aim was to save the ozone layer. That was before climate change was widely understood. And ozone destruction and climate change are two separate issues caused by two different classes of substances, HFCs v. CFCs, both of which have greenhouse attributes, but only one substantially destroys ozone.

Still, these substances are a tiny fraction of the GHG puzzle, despite their shared immense "radiative forcing" qualities. (See IPCC reports.) Eliminate them entirely, and we still have an intractable problem. Stay focused, not every molecule of GHG has to be eliminated. We are much better off tackling the big issues of fossil fuel dependence, sprawl development models, and personal and commercial energy efficiency.

]]> HFC, CFCs, etc.,

Wait--as I recall, HFCs were considered an environment-saving substance waybackwhen after the Montreal Protocol, whose aim was to save the ozone layer. That was before climate change was widely understood. And ozone destruction and climate change are two separate issues caused by two different classes of substances, HFCs v. CFCs, both of which have greenhouse attributes, but only one substantially destroys ozone.

Still, these substances are a tiny fraction of the GHG puzzle, despite their shared immense "radiative forcing" qualities. (See IPCC reports.) Eliminate them entirely, and we still have an intractable problem. Stay focused, not every molecule of GHG has to be eliminated. We are much better off tackling the big issues of fossil fuel dependence, sprawl development models, and personal and commercial energy efficiency.

]]> Comment #5 by racc http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/ Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:08:49 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/5 Get a keyboard protector

 Tasermons Partner:

Get a keyboard protector. I have one and it works great. Just google "keyboard protector" and you will find tons.

]]> Get a keyboard protector

 Tasermons Partner:

Get a keyboard protector. I have one and it works great. Just google "keyboard protector" and you will find tons.

]]> Comment #6 by racc http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/ Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:10:46 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/6 Fundamentally Unsustainable

Costco has huge stores with huge parking lots that require people to drive for miles. Their business, along with every other big bix, is fundamentally unsustainable. High oil prices will probably fix all this soon.

]]> Fundamentally Unsustainable

Costco has huge stores with huge parking lots that require people to drive for miles. Their business, along with every other big bix, is fundamentally unsustainable. High oil prices will probably fix all this soon.

]]> Comment #7 by Wolverine http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/ Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:22:52 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/7 Costco Even Worse Than Others

Costco is up there with Wal-Mart in its destruction of the Earth.  By encouraging consumption of piggishly large quantities and amounts of things, Costco drives one of the twin problems of destruction of the environment, which is overconsumption, and which is worse in the U.S. than anywhere.

]]> Costco Even Worse Than Others

Costco is up there with Wal-Mart in its destruction of the Earth.  By encouraging consumption of piggishly large quantities and amounts of things, Costco drives one of the twin problems of destruction of the environment, which is overconsumption, and which is worse in the U.S. than anywhere.

]]> Comment #8 by JMG http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/ Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:45:36 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/8 Not every molecule has to be eliminated?!?

Guarde wrote

Still, these substances are a tiny fraction of the GHG puzzle, despite their shared immense "radiative forcing" qualities. (See IPCC reports.) Eliminate them entirely, and we still have an intractable problem. Stay focused, not every molecule of GHG has to be eliminated. We are much better off tackling the big issues of fossil fuel dependence, sprawl development models, and personal and commercial energy efficiency.

I am having very hard time following this logic.  People here have spent hundreds of thousands of words and countless hours talking about how to respond to the climate crisis and perhaps the one thing that everyone agrees on is that activities and products that are needlessly destructive of climate need to go --- they are the "low hanging fruit" that everyone's talking about.

EVERY activity, viewed in isolation, is small potatoes.  For example, here's a link to story about doctors flying to conferences where, predictably, some idiot dismisses the concern because, hey, it's just a drop in the bucket:

http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_releases/given_a_c ...

That's just one example of millions that could be considered.  The bottom line is that with CO2e screaming up towards 400 ppm and a need to get it back down to 350 ppm, EVERY greenhouse gas emitting product and activity has to be scrutinized closely and eliminated if the climate cost is too high for the benefit.  

In fact, rescuing ourselves means we're going to have to stop doing/buying lots of things we would very much prefer to keep buying/doing.  In other words, this isn't necessarily going to be all easy, low-hanging fruit.

So, respectfully, suggesting that we ignore these products to focus on things like sprawl and consumption strikes me as bizarre.  People are having to make difficult changes to reduce their climate footprint; products like these sprays undermine their efforts and their commitment.

We are social animals.  People don't like feeling like the albino monkey in the troop.  Products like this are essentially decadent --- like felling a cherry tree to pick one cherry off the top branches --- and people who are trying to do the right thing feel bruised by these products, because they think "Great, everything I've done to reduce my climate footprint just got canceled out by that pallet of spray."

You're right that every molecule of greenhouse gases have to be eliminated.  But if we can't start by eliminating the stupid ones, it's difficult to see how we get at the hard ones.

The 5% Project


]]> Not every molecule has to be eliminated?!?

Guarde wrote

Still, these substances are a tiny fraction of the GHG puzzle, despite their shared immense "radiative forcing" qualities. (See IPCC reports.) Eliminate them entirely, and we still have an intractable problem. Stay focused, not every molecule of GHG has to be eliminated. We are much better off tackling the big issues of fossil fuel dependence, sprawl development models, and personal and commercial energy efficiency.

I am having very hard time following this logic.  People here have spent hundreds of thousands of words and countless hours talking about how to respond to the climate crisis and perhaps the one thing that everyone agrees on is that activities and products that are needlessly destructive of climate need to go --- they are the "low hanging fruit" that everyone's talking about.

EVERY activity, viewed in isolation, is small potatoes.  For example, here's a link to story about doctors flying to conferences where, predictably, some idiot dismisses the concern because, hey, it's just a drop in the bucket:

http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_releases/given_a_c ...

That's just one example of millions that could be considered.  The bottom line is that with CO2e screaming up towards 400 ppm and a need to get it back down to 350 ppm, EVERY greenhouse gas emitting product and activity has to be scrutinized closely and eliminated if the climate cost is too high for the benefit.  

In fact, rescuing ourselves means we're going to have to stop doing/buying lots of things we would very much prefer to keep buying/doing.  In other words, this isn't necessarily going to be all easy, low-hanging fruit.

So, respectfully, suggesting that we ignore these products to focus on things like sprawl and consumption strikes me as bizarre.  People are having to make difficult changes to reduce their climate footprint; products like these sprays undermine their efforts and their commitment.

We are social animals.  People don't like feeling like the albino monkey in the troop.  Products like this are essentially decadent --- like felling a cherry tree to pick one cherry off the top branches --- and people who are trying to do the right thing feel bruised by these products, because they think "Great, everything I've done to reduce my climate footprint just got canceled out by that pallet of spray."

You're right that every molecule of greenhouse gases have to be eliminated.  But if we can't start by eliminating the stupid ones, it's difficult to see how we get at the hard ones.

The 5% Project


]]> Comment #9 by JMG http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/ Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:47:50 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/9 Corrections

It's guade00, not Guarde.

The penultimate sentence needs a "not" (as in yes, not every molecule" ...)

The 5% Project

]]> Corrections

It's guade00, not Guarde.

The penultimate sentence needs a "not" (as in yes, not every molecule" ...)

The 5% Project

]]> Comment #10 by Tasermons Partner http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/ Sun, 29 Jun 2008 04:25:26 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/tell-costco-to-stop-selling-climate-crack/10 Thanks!...

Tasermons Partner:
Get a keyboard protector. I have one and it works great. Just google "keyboard protector" and you will find tons.

Thanks!  I've seen those before-don't know why that didn't occur to me.

Then again, aren't most of those plastic?  Maybe I should just spend an hour and go at it with a toothpick...

]]> Thanks!...

Tasermons Partner:
Get a keyboard protector. I have one and it works great. Just google "keyboard protector" and you will find tons.

Thanks!  I've seen those before-don't know why that didn't occur to me.

Then again, aren't most of those plastic?  Maybe I should just spend an hour and go at it with a toothpick...

]]>