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            <title>Comment #1 by Jonas</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:04:30 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Mm, not sure<p>Perhaps synthetic biology and the bioeconomy can do what biotech did during the Green Revolution. That is: lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty? <p>
Why not?<p>
If smart people like Craig Venter succeed in developing techniques that can feed more people and dramatically cut fuel prices, then surely that's good for humanity? And if it means a decentralisation of energy production, based on perpetually renewable resources, managed by local communities, then surely this is a good thing? <p>
I think synthetic biology can be what biotech did to some parts of the Global South. That is: end hunger and poverty. <p>
The case of Malawi comes to mind. The BBC has a great series of essays on it, running now. You see there how biotech is saving this entire nation: <p>
<strong>Seeking Africa's green revolution<p>
From the begging bowl to the bread basket: in just two years, Malawi has gone from famine to food surplus - a minor agricultural miracle. <br>
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7651977.stm" rel="nofollow">The BBC goes to the field.<p>
The piece about hybrid seeds is interesting. <p>
The result was six successive years of food shortage in Malawi - beginning in 2000.<p>
"And there was no lack of rains, I can tell you," says Dr Jeffrey Luhanga, technical co-ordinator at the Ministry for Agriculture.<p>
"I experienced the famine in 2005; there were lines of people queuing for food aid.<p>
"The thing you have to remember is that these were the ones who were still strong enough to walk to the depots. The hungriest - the ones who really needed the food - they were stuck at home, starving.<p>
"Now look around Malawi, you see only healthy faces. Yes, this is a green revolution. And it is being driven by science."<p>
He reels off a list of programmes - irrigation, agronomy, planting patterns, science-based economic practices.<p>
"These technologies have been in our research institutes for years, but they went nowhere. Now, for the first time, the technology is in the farmers' hands."<p>
<strong>Seeds of hope?<p>
It begins with the seeds. The hybrid maize varieties are high yielding - around 2,500kg/hectare or more.<p>
"I grew 80 bags this year, in the land just around my house. Eighty bags!" says Mitengo Gamr, one of Admarc's regional managers.<p>
"My family no longer queues to buy food."<p>
But they come with a catch - they are addicted to costly nitrogen fertiliser.<p>
"But it is worth the investment," explains Muhhuku, "because the extra maize you grow, you can sell to pay for the fertiliser, buy an animal for your farm and diversify. You can build security."<p>
And what if the rains fail? "Then you have enough left over from your big harvest last year," he smiles. <p>
[...]<p>
But utter the words "technological dependency" to Muhhuku, and he simply shakes his head.<p>
<strong>"We hear this accusation from western development workers. We are told 'why make farmers buy seeds every year? Why let the companies trap you?' But this is based on a misunderstanding. Storing the hybrid seeds - it takes a lot of technical knowledge.<p>
"The farmers can stick to their traditional ways. But the yields are not worth their sweat."<p>
Tomorrow, I will meet the farmers and ask them myself.<p>
And the journalist asked the farmers, and they all say: "ah, these pampered bourgeois critics from the West. They know nothing about the world. &nbsp;They write reports warning about what we do and that's it. They have never put their own hands in the dirt. They don't know what they're talking about. They can come and visit us to learn, but they prefer to stay at their well paid desks in their wealthy Euro-American headquarters."<p>
Perhaps synthetic biology can do in a next round, what the Green(er) Revolution has and is doing during this round? <p>
If a poor African peasant understands the benefits of technology, then why shouldn't a well-educated Euro-American civil society organisation? </p></p></p></p></p></strong></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></a></br></p></strong></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Mm, not sure<p>Perhaps synthetic biology and the bioeconomy can do what biotech did during the Green Revolution. That is: lift hundreds of millions of people out of poverty? <p>
Why not?<p>
If smart people like Craig Venter succeed in developing techniques that can feed more people and dramatically cut fuel prices, then surely that's good for humanity? And if it means a decentralisation of energy production, based on perpetually renewable resources, managed by local communities, then surely this is a good thing? <p>
I think synthetic biology can be what biotech did to some parts of the Global South. That is: end hunger and poverty. <p>
The case of Malawi comes to mind. The BBC has a great series of essays on it, running now. You see there how biotech is saving this entire nation: <p>
<strong>Seeking Africa's green revolution<p>
From the begging bowl to the bread basket: in just two years, Malawi has gone from famine to food surplus - a minor agricultural miracle. <br>
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7651977.stm" rel="nofollow">The BBC goes to the field.<p>
The piece about hybrid seeds is interesting. <p>
The result was six successive years of food shortage in Malawi - beginning in 2000.<p>
"And there was no lack of rains, I can tell you," says Dr Jeffrey Luhanga, technical co-ordinator at the Ministry for Agriculture.<p>
"I experienced the famine in 2005; there were lines of people queuing for food aid.<p>
"The thing you have to remember is that these were the ones who were still strong enough to walk to the depots. The hungriest - the ones who really needed the food - they were stuck at home, starving.<p>
"Now look around Malawi, you see only healthy faces. Yes, this is a green revolution. And it is being driven by science."<p>
He reels off a list of programmes - irrigation, agronomy, planting patterns, science-based economic practices.<p>
"These technologies have been in our research institutes for years, but they went nowhere. Now, for the first time, the technology is in the farmers' hands."<p>
<strong>Seeds of hope?<p>
It begins with the seeds. The hybrid maize varieties are high yielding - around 2,500kg/hectare or more.<p>
"I grew 80 bags this year, in the land just around my house. Eighty bags!" says Mitengo Gamr, one of Admarc's regional managers.<p>
"My family no longer queues to buy food."<p>
But they come with a catch - they are addicted to costly nitrogen fertiliser.<p>
"But it is worth the investment," explains Muhhuku, "because the extra maize you grow, you can sell to pay for the fertiliser, buy an animal for your farm and diversify. You can build security."<p>
And what if the rains fail? "Then you have enough left over from your big harvest last year," he smiles. <p>
[...]<p>
But utter the words "technological dependency" to Muhhuku, and he simply shakes his head.<p>
<strong>"We hear this accusation from western development workers. We are told 'why make farmers buy seeds every year? Why let the companies trap you?' But this is based on a misunderstanding. Storing the hybrid seeds - it takes a lot of technical knowledge.<p>
"The farmers can stick to their traditional ways. But the yields are not worth their sweat."<p>
Tomorrow, I will meet the farmers and ask them myself.<p>
And the journalist asked the farmers, and they all say: "ah, these pampered bourgeois critics from the West. They know nothing about the world. &nbsp;They write reports warning about what we do and that's it. They have never put their own hands in the dirt. They don't know what they're talking about. They can come and visit us to learn, but they prefer to stay at their well paid desks in their wealthy Euro-American headquarters."<p>
Perhaps synthetic biology can do in a next round, what the Green(er) Revolution has and is doing during this round? <p>
If a poor African peasant understands the benefits of technology, then why shouldn't a well-educated Euro-American civil society organisation? </p></p></p></p></p></strong></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></a></br></p></strong></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by mwildfire</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 00:41:57 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>green revolution and life sciences companies</strong></p><p>Sure, you can find a happy African farmer singing the praises of the Green Revolution and of GMOs. You can probably find Indian farmers who love what Monsanto has done. But you can find millions of third world farmers who are very angry about these things--check out what Vandana Shiva has to say.<br>
ETC has done excellent research into genetic technology and nanotech--too bad it doesn't get more widespread attention.<br>
What struck me reading this piece is that there probably is the potantial for nanotechnology to solve some problems--IF it were used responsibly, with government assuring that only fully safe applications were allowed out of the lab into the field. IF approaches that cause excessive diversion of poor people's food into rich people's gas tanks, or that risk contamination of ecosystems in unknown ways, or deforestation, were strictly prevented no matter how much money they could make for the life sciences corporations. In other words, if pigs fly. </br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>green revolution and life sciences companies</strong></p><p>Sure, you can find a happy African farmer singing the praises of the Green Revolution and of GMOs. You can probably find Indian farmers who love what Monsanto has done. But you can find millions of third world farmers who are very angry about these things--check out what Vandana Shiva has to say.<br>
ETC has done excellent research into genetic technology and nanotech--too bad it doesn't get more widespread attention.<br>
What struck me reading this piece is that there probably is the potantial for nanotechnology to solve some problems--IF it were used responsibly, with government assuring that only fully safe applications were allowed out of the lab into the field. IF approaches that cause excessive diversion of poor people's food into rich people's gas tanks, or that risk contamination of ecosystems in unknown ways, or deforestation, were strictly prevented no matter how much money they could make for the life sciences corporations. In other words, if pigs fly. </br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Russ</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 02:35:02 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Tower of Babel<p>It's always the same thing with these people. They'll never stop until the earth is a sterile cinder. Intensification ("growth") and technology keep knotting ever more intractable problems, and the answer is always greater intensification and more technology. Keep building the Tower ever taller, ever more top heavy. Keep blowing the technology bubble ever more expansively and thinly. Make everything as bad as you can and exploit it as ruthlessly as you can, unto the end.<p>
They would certainly rather see everything and everyone destroyed than ever accept an organized program of material descent and technological devolution. <p>
Disaster capitalism is truly the final and most violent phase of capitalism.<p>
Here's <a href="http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/5583" rel="nofollow">another article on this ghoulish campaign by the same author.</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Tower of Babel<p>It's always the same thing with these people. They'll never stop until the earth is a sterile cinder. Intensification ("growth") and technology keep knotting ever more intractable problems, and the answer is always greater intensification and more technology. Keep building the Tower ever taller, ever more top heavy. Keep blowing the technology bubble ever more expansively and thinly. Make everything as bad as you can and exploit it as ruthlessly as you can, unto the end.<p>
They would certainly rather see everything and everyone destroyed than ever accept an organized program of material descent and technological devolution. <p>
Disaster capitalism is truly the final and most violent phase of capitalism.<p>
Here's <a href="http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/5583" rel="nofollow">another article on this ghoulish campaign by the same author.</a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Whiskerfish</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 00:59:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>African farming</strong></p><p>No-one doubts that fertiliser and modern seed varieties can improve yields over traditional African slash-and burn, rainfed cropping. We all saw what happened to Zimbabwe when the 'white' farmers with their modern, chemical-intensive (but often not as intensive as in the US) farming methods were kicked off the land (inflation there is now north of 120 million % and thousands are starving).</p><p>
But to say there is not an even better way is ridiculous -- e.g. modern organic methods. Don't presume that the incredibly crude methods traditionally practised by many African farmers bear any resemblance to contemporary, sophisticated organic ways of doing things! It seems that many foreigners do...</p><p>
Just a thought!</p><p>
Whiskerfish (African, in Africa, for all my sins!)<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>African farming</strong></p><p>No-one doubts that fertiliser and modern seed varieties can improve yields over traditional African slash-and burn, rainfed cropping. We all saw what happened to Zimbabwe when the 'white' farmers with their modern, chemical-intensive (but often not as intensive as in the US) farming methods were kicked off the land (inflation there is now north of 120 million % and thousands are starving).</p><p>
But to say there is not an even better way is ridiculous -- e.g. modern organic methods. Don't presume that the incredibly crude methods traditionally practised by many African farmers bear any resemblance to contemporary, sophisticated organic ways of doing things! It seems that many foreigners do...</p><p>
Just a thought!</p><p>
Whiskerfish (African, in Africa, for all my sins!)<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Whiskerfish</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 01:14:06 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Biofuels in Africa</strong></p><p>Think about it: In a relatively free agricultural economy, you are only going to plant biofuel feedstock if it is more profitable than food.</p><p>
If it is, food prices must go up, and more natural areas must be destroyed to make fields. These are major negatives.</p><p>
The idea that African peasants will become rich by growing biofuel feedstocks presumes that they are poor because they currently cannot grow anything saleable on their land, and that they will be able to retain control their land if they manage to grow something profitable on it.</p><p>
The reasons that many African peasants are not growing valuable crops is not because they -- for climatic reasons or whatever -- will not grow there. There are a host of complex factors at play: Lack of access to knowledge and capital, weird systems of land tenure, traditional superstition etc. etc. It's hard to see how biofuels will change this.</p><p>
If biofuel crops are successful and profitable, then you can bet that more powerful people (poiticians, foreign investors, and the like) will soon rush in and take the land into their possession. Rural Africans will become near-slaves on plantations built on the land that was once theirs. Why do I say this? because it's already happening. From Mozambique to the Congo, from Angola to Tanzania, millions of acres are already being stolen. I've seen it for myself. </p><p>
Some of the main drivers of rural poverty in Africa are political powerlessness, societal fragmentation and endemic corruption -- changing the crops people grow will do nothing to solve this.</p><p>
99% of contemporary biofuels are just plain trouble. 1st-, 2nd- or 3rd-generation -- whatever.</p><p>
Cheers</p><p>
Whiskerfish </p>
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				<p><strong>Biofuels in Africa</strong></p><p>Think about it: In a relatively free agricultural economy, you are only going to plant biofuel feedstock if it is more profitable than food.</p><p>
If it is, food prices must go up, and more natural areas must be destroyed to make fields. These are major negatives.</p><p>
The idea that African peasants will become rich by growing biofuel feedstocks presumes that they are poor because they currently cannot grow anything saleable on their land, and that they will be able to retain control their land if they manage to grow something profitable on it.</p><p>
The reasons that many African peasants are not growing valuable crops is not because they -- for climatic reasons or whatever -- will not grow there. There are a host of complex factors at play: Lack of access to knowledge and capital, weird systems of land tenure, traditional superstition etc. etc. It's hard to see how biofuels will change this.</p><p>
If biofuel crops are successful and profitable, then you can bet that more powerful people (poiticians, foreign investors, and the like) will soon rush in and take the land into their possession. Rural Africans will become near-slaves on plantations built on the land that was once theirs. Why do I say this? because it's already happening. From Mozambique to the Congo, from Angola to Tanzania, millions of acres are already being stolen. I've seen it for myself. </p><p>
Some of the main drivers of rural poverty in Africa are political powerlessness, societal fragmentation and endemic corruption -- changing the crops people grow will do nothing to solve this.</p><p>
99% of contemporary biofuels are just plain trouble. 1st-, 2nd- or 3rd-generation -- whatever.</p><p>
Cheers</p><p>
Whiskerfish </p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 02:10:01 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Barry Obama: Corn Fed, Corn Bread<p>Barry Obama's campaign is that of the corn. &nbsp; The Senator from the farming state of Illinois is propped up by agribusiness interests.<p>
Mr Obama causes problems in three ways:<p>


He ruins our health by pushing inedible products into the food supply.<p>
He makes housing and rents ratchet sky high by using up millions of acres for growing unsustainable crops.<p>
He forces Americas off land and into squalor:<p>


<a href="http://you-read-it-here-first.com/viewtopic.php?t=3215&amp;sid=ac2b3d7034b40e2b3fac75e030eca64a" rel="nofollow">http://you-read-it-here-first.com/viewtopic.php?t=3215&am ...<p>
<a href="http://www.westernwatersheds.org/watmess/watmess_2002/2002html_summer/article6.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.westernwatersheds.org/watmess/watmess_2002/200 ...<p>
 Despite all the hand wringing over sprawl and urbanization, only 66 million acres are considered developed lands. <p>
This amounts to 3 percent of the land area in the U.S., yet this small land base is home to 75 percent of the population. <p>
In general, urban lands are nearly useless for biodiversity preservation. Furthermore, urbanized lands, once converted, usually do not shift to another use.</p></p></p></a></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Barry Obama: Corn Fed, Corn Bread<p>Barry Obama's campaign is that of the corn. &nbsp; The Senator from the farming state of Illinois is propped up by agribusiness interests.<p>
Mr Obama causes problems in three ways:<p>


He ruins our health by pushing inedible products into the food supply.<p>
He makes housing and rents ratchet sky high by using up millions of acres for growing unsustainable crops.<p>
He forces Americas off land and into squalor:<p>


<a href="http://you-read-it-here-first.com/viewtopic.php?t=3215&amp;sid=ac2b3d7034b40e2b3fac75e030eca64a" rel="nofollow">http://you-read-it-here-first.com/viewtopic.php?t=3215&am ...<p>
<a href="http://www.westernwatersheds.org/watmess/watmess_2002/2002html_summer/article6.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.westernwatersheds.org/watmess/watmess_2002/200 ...<p>
 Despite all the hand wringing over sprawl and urbanization, only 66 million acres are considered developed lands. <p>
This amounts to 3 percent of the land area in the U.S., yet this small land base is home to 75 percent of the population. <p>
In general, urban lands are nearly useless for biodiversity preservation. Furthermore, urbanized lands, once converted, usually do not shift to another use.</p></p></p></a></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by turanga leela</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 07:41:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Less bogeymen, more analysis, please<p>Important concept and important work but I must say I am not impressed thus far with the ETC Group. As much as I hate to say it (having been a punk rock kid myself at one time) it does nothing for your credibility to lard your publications with caricatures of Corporate Fat Cats and the Scary Mad Scientists of Academia. I would rather not have an "emotion vs. reason" debate over this--I do not see them as mutually exclusive--but I will say that especially the belittling of scientists' contributions to the research of biofuels (even just to find out whether or not the fuels will do what proponents say they'll do) feels like an attempt by those who don't have a deep enough understanding of the issues to cut their opponents off at the knees. It is a tactic employed all the time by right wingers in the "God vs. Science" debates of the culture wars, and I feel very strongly that such tactics do not belong in the environmental movement. There are plenty of good science-based critiques of biofuels out there--like this one (<a href="http://www.e2.org/jsp/controller?docId=16033&amp;section=biofuellanduse" rel="nofollow">http://www.e2.org/jsp/controller?docId=16033&amp;section= ...) and this one (<a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081002172607.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081002172607 ...)--but they don't lead to the kind of all-or-nothing, good-vs-evil conclusions that provide people with the justification they're looking for to chain themselves to the doors of Scary Mad Scientist Inc.<p>
It was also rather frustrating to find at least one misrepresentation in their report. Coskata is not using bioengineered microorganisms--their "proprietary microorganisms" are actually rare organisms that got to their current state the way most microorganisms have--through evolution. This was confirmed by a Coskata principal--quite emphatically--on an educational webinar I participated in about 4 months ago. One thing I do wonder about with any of these companies that are working with microorganisms is whether or not any type of "conventional breeding" of bacteria and yeasts (the ability to manipulate successive generations by selecting and isolating individuals with desirable characteristics not by bombarding them with other species' DNA as Monsanto does) is playing with fire, due to the fact that we know so little about them and because of the rapid process of evolution these organisms undergo. But here again, this question can only be answered by a scientist, which they'll be less likely to do if you open dialogue with an insult of academia. The reason I can't stand fearmongering of any kind, whether it be by the Bush Administration or by my fellow environmentalists, is that it has a chilling effect on dialogue and it turns complex human beings into caricatures and monsters. If that's what you're trying to do because you are a militant who can only understand things through the thought and language of warfare, then you should understand that by purposely making positions intractable and considering the people who view things differently than you do as being so alien and "other" than you are that the mere thought of dialoguing with and understanding them is utterly repugnant, you will never achieve your results until your "opponent" is completely destroyed. And you can't wage war on an ideology because the moment you destroy one opponent, another one pops up. Look at the War on Terror--how's that been going lately? The only way to successfully change an ideology is by convincing people of your viewpoint through respectful dialogue. </p></a></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Less bogeymen, more analysis, please<p>Important concept and important work but I must say I am not impressed thus far with the ETC Group. As much as I hate to say it (having been a punk rock kid myself at one time) it does nothing for your credibility to lard your publications with caricatures of Corporate Fat Cats and the Scary Mad Scientists of Academia. I would rather not have an "emotion vs. reason" debate over this--I do not see them as mutually exclusive--but I will say that especially the belittling of scientists' contributions to the research of biofuels (even just to find out whether or not the fuels will do what proponents say they'll do) feels like an attempt by those who don't have a deep enough understanding of the issues to cut their opponents off at the knees. It is a tactic employed all the time by right wingers in the "God vs. Science" debates of the culture wars, and I feel very strongly that such tactics do not belong in the environmental movement. There are plenty of good science-based critiques of biofuels out there--like this one (<a href="http://www.e2.org/jsp/controller?docId=16033&amp;section=biofuellanduse" rel="nofollow">http://www.e2.org/jsp/controller?docId=16033&amp;section= ...) and this one (<a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081002172607.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081002172607 ...)--but they don't lead to the kind of all-or-nothing, good-vs-evil conclusions that provide people with the justification they're looking for to chain themselves to the doors of Scary Mad Scientist Inc.<p>
It was also rather frustrating to find at least one misrepresentation in their report. Coskata is not using bioengineered microorganisms--their "proprietary microorganisms" are actually rare organisms that got to their current state the way most microorganisms have--through evolution. This was confirmed by a Coskata principal--quite emphatically--on an educational webinar I participated in about 4 months ago. One thing I do wonder about with any of these companies that are working with microorganisms is whether or not any type of "conventional breeding" of bacteria and yeasts (the ability to manipulate successive generations by selecting and isolating individuals with desirable characteristics not by bombarding them with other species' DNA as Monsanto does) is playing with fire, due to the fact that we know so little about them and because of the rapid process of evolution these organisms undergo. But here again, this question can only be answered by a scientist, which they'll be less likely to do if you open dialogue with an insult of academia. The reason I can't stand fearmongering of any kind, whether it be by the Bush Administration or by my fellow environmentalists, is that it has a chilling effect on dialogue and it turns complex human beings into caricatures and monsters. If that's what you're trying to do because you are a militant who can only understand things through the thought and language of warfare, then you should understand that by purposely making positions intractable and considering the people who view things differently than you do as being so alien and "other" than you are that the mere thought of dialoguing with and understanding them is utterly repugnant, you will never achieve your results until your "opponent" is completely destroyed. And you can't wage war on an ideology because the moment you destroy one opponent, another one pops up. Look at the War on Terror--how's that been going lately? The only way to successfully change an ideology is by convincing people of your viewpoint through respectful dialogue. </p></a></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:37:34 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Another reason</strong></p><p>To go renewable electric with transportation energy. &nbsp;The same old corporate citizens will guzzle the biosphere with the help of these franken-species of microorganisms.</p><p>
If only a few invasive species escape the vat, it could be bio-suicide for the living planet.</p><p>
Non dangerous algae and digestor bacteria feeding on the waste stream will do just fine. &nbsp;Without more mega industrial tampering with life on earth.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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				<p><strong>Another reason</strong></p><p>To go renewable electric with transportation energy. &nbsp;The same old corporate citizens will guzzle the biosphere with the help of these franken-species of microorganisms.</p><p>
If only a few invasive species escape the vat, it could be bio-suicide for the living planet.</p><p>
Non dangerous algae and digestor bacteria feeding on the waste stream will do just fine. &nbsp;Without more mega industrial tampering with life on earth.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by turanga leela</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:46:55 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>But they don't like algae either</strong></p><p>It's in their position paper, along with the weird cartoons, seemingly random charts, and citing of primarily editorials as "sources."</p>
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				<p><strong>But they don't like algae either</strong></p><p>It's in their position paper, along with the weird cartoons, seemingly random charts, and citing of primarily editorials as "sources."</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 01:15:20 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Well sure</strong></p><p>It's hard to like GMO algae. &nbsp;But selectively bred algae ought to be ok.</p><p>
That kind of exposes a possible loophole for GMO. &nbsp;The insertion of toxin concentrating genes, found in some plants (like jimson weed), into microorganisms. &nbsp;This would make it possible to have biodigestion/energy systems that extract toxic heavy metals, even tadioactive ones, from the waste stream.</p><p>
Or even process contaminated soil and water, recycling it, rather than landfilling it, with those clay and plastic lined facilities that have to treat the waste water as contaminated run off.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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				<p><strong>Well sure</strong></p><p>It's hard to like GMO algae. &nbsp;But selectively bred algae ought to be ok.</p><p>
That kind of exposes a possible loophole for GMO. &nbsp;The insertion of toxin concentrating genes, found in some plants (like jimson weed), into microorganisms. &nbsp;This would make it possible to have biodigestion/energy systems that extract toxic heavy metals, even tadioactive ones, from the waste stream.</p><p>
Or even process contaminated soil and water, recycling it, rather than landfilling it, with those clay and plastic lined facilities that have to treat the waste water as contaminated run off.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by turanga leela</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 02:01:05 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Yep--phytoremediation to biofuel</strong></p><p>This is a huge and virtually unexplored topic, and will remain unexplored as long as the discussion is dominated by aggie profiteers and dogmatically anti-biomass-anything environmentalists bashing each other ad infinitum.</p><p>
Using plants to remediate contaminated soils/neutralize toxins and then turning the plants into fuels or pellets for stoves--this is not a big potential cash cow but it's hard to see how it wouldn't be one of the few sources of fairly benign biofuels. No one's growing food on contaminated soils right now. And if they are, I wouldn't eat it.</p>
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				<p><strong>Yep--phytoremediation to biofuel</strong></p><p>This is a huge and virtually unexplored topic, and will remain unexplored as long as the discussion is dominated by aggie profiteers and dogmatically anti-biomass-anything environmentalists bashing each other ad infinitum.</p><p>
Using plants to remediate contaminated soils/neutralize toxins and then turning the plants into fuels or pellets for stoves--this is not a big potential cash cow but it's hard to see how it wouldn't be one of the few sources of fairly benign biofuels. No one's growing food on contaminated soils right now. And if they are, I wouldn't eat it.</p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 02:20:23 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Good posts,  turanga<p>

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Good posts,  turanga<p>

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 02:30:47 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Actually</strong></p><p>Bioremediation could separate the toxic metals from the biomass and break down dangerous organic compounds like PCBs. &nbsp;A biodigestor can break down biomass to whatever molecular level it is designed for. &nbsp;Time and energy exchange do the dissassembley.</p><p>
That mud with PCB in it that GE dumped in the Hudson River from it's transformer plant, it could be sucked up and biodigested using renewable energy, river current power. &nbsp; </p><p>
As the biomass is broken down, it would tend to concentrate the toxins. &nbsp;Allowing special separation like the electromagnetic trash seperation of non-magnetic metals from trash, only on a micro scale.</p><p>
A plusing DC current magnetizing the metal containing microorganisms, then magnets separating them from the rest of the sludge.</p><p>
PCBs and other dangerous organic compounds can be broken down by the selection of the right microorganisms. </p><p>
Could even radioactive metals, like the Plutonium and Uranium leaking into the Ohio, Colorado, and the Columbia Rivers (to name just a few), &nbsp;be extracted economically from ground water using renewably powered bioreactors? &nbsp;I think so. &nbsp;

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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				<p><strong>Actually</strong></p><p>Bioremediation could separate the toxic metals from the biomass and break down dangerous organic compounds like PCBs. &nbsp;A biodigestor can break down biomass to whatever molecular level it is designed for. &nbsp;Time and energy exchange do the dissassembley.</p><p>
That mud with PCB in it that GE dumped in the Hudson River from it's transformer plant, it could be sucked up and biodigested using renewable energy, river current power. &nbsp; </p><p>
As the biomass is broken down, it would tend to concentrate the toxins. &nbsp;Allowing special separation like the electromagnetic trash seperation of non-magnetic metals from trash, only on a micro scale.</p><p>
A plusing DC current magnetizing the metal containing microorganisms, then magnets separating them from the rest of the sludge.</p><p>
PCBs and other dangerous organic compounds can be broken down by the selection of the right microorganisms. </p><p>
Could even radioactive metals, like the Plutonium and Uranium leaking into the Ohio, Colorado, and the Columbia Rivers (to name just a few), &nbsp;be extracted economically from ground water using renewably powered bioreactors? &nbsp;I think so. &nbsp;

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by turanga leela</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 07:59:45 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Good book, Russ</strong></p><p>:)</p><p>
Maybe instead of yakking away anonymously on Grist, I should be writing my own book...uh, anonymously...</p>
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				<p><strong>Good book, Russ</strong></p><p>:)</p><p>
Maybe instead of yakking away anonymously on Grist, I should be writing my own book...uh, anonymously...</p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:21:47 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>You are turanga<p>Just put your best posts here on a blog like I do. &nbsp;It's sort of like a book. &nbsp;Hehey.<p>
<a href="http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog" rel="nofollow">http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog<p>
It's a blook. &nbsp;<p>
This is how Maureen Dowd gets ger books, she compiles her columns. &nbsp;Then has it published. <p>
Do it online. &nbsp;It's free, no editors.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>You are turanga<p>Just put your best posts here on a blog like I do. &nbsp;It's sort of like a book. &nbsp;Hehey.<p>
<a href="http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog" rel="nofollow">http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog<p>
It's a blook. &nbsp;<p>
This is how Maureen Dowd gets ger books, she compiles her columns. &nbsp;Then has it published. <p>
Do it online. &nbsp;It's free, no editors.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #16 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/synthetic-biology-coming-soon-to-a-gas-tank-near-you/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:34:14 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Biogas</strong></p><p>"Using plants to remediate contaminated soils/neutralize toxins and then turning the plants into fuels or pellets for stoves"</p><p>
What I'm advocating is using the energy from the biogas that the biodigester breaks the biomass down into.</p><p>
It's fairly easy to separate gas from toxins and heavy metal, thus no toxic smoke! &nbsp;In a solid oxide fuel cell/turbine cogeneration system, the gas will be turned into electricity at 70% efficiency.</p><p>
The gas is an easy to store source of backup power for a renwable grid. &nbsp;And waste stream biogas offsets GHG from other sources. &nbsp;It's all good. &nbsp;So does the organic fertilizer.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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				<p><strong>Biogas</strong></p><p>"Using plants to remediate contaminated soils/neutralize toxins and then turning the plants into fuels or pellets for stoves"</p><p>
What I'm advocating is using the energy from the biogas that the biodigester breaks the biomass down into.</p><p>
It's fairly easy to separate gas from toxins and heavy metal, thus no toxic smoke! &nbsp;In a solid oxide fuel cell/turbine cogeneration system, the gas will be turned into electricity at 70% efficiency.</p><p>
The gas is an easy to store source of backup power for a renwable grid. &nbsp;And waste stream biogas offsets GHG from other sources. &nbsp;It's all good. &nbsp;So does the organic fertilizer.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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