<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Disputing Shellenberger & Norhaus, part 2]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by ce1907 http://www.grist.org/article/stock-arguments/ Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:41:40 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/stock-arguments/1 drill, baby, drill

Get ready for the coal state and farm state (offsets) coalition behind Bingaman

and close friends in Obama administration about to bring you a little grid, a lot of technology, a few fig leafs, grand rhetoric

and no binding caps for decades

The gang of offshore drilling plus new recruits

and cowering acceptance by the big enviro groups

victory on election day will only be the prelude to a self-inflicted defeat

100 percent auction! (for suckers at the primaries, and for no other reason)

]]> drill, baby, drill

Get ready for the coal state and farm state (offsets) coalition behind Bingaman

and close friends in Obama administration about to bring you a little grid, a lot of technology, a few fig leafs, grand rhetoric

and no binding caps for decades

The gang of offshore drilling plus new recruits

and cowering acceptance by the big enviro groups

victory on election day will only be the prelude to a self-inflicted defeat

100 percent auction! (for suckers at the primaries, and for no other reason)

]]> Comment #2 by Pangolin http://www.grist.org/article/stock-arguments/ Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:18:08 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/stock-arguments/2 No new jobs drilling.

There are a limited number of drilling rigs out there. Each has a limited crew and that crew recruits from their home community. Despite the run-up in fuel prices there hasn't been a sudden increase in orders for rigs.

Solar power and wind power on the other hand can provide hundreds of thousands of jobs with training periods of several weeks to several months. Add geothermal/geoexchange installation and we're talking millions of jobs.

Faced with an economy about to go into depression the coming president will have very few levers with which to return people to work. Even if solar/wind/geothermal power provided only a flat economic return over 20 years that would be cheaper than unemployment, law enforcement and prisons.

All indications are that a green jobs program would be wildly profitable to the economy as a whole. Compared to a bailout of crooked bankers it should be a shoe-in.

Put the Carbon Back


]]> No new jobs drilling.

There are a limited number of drilling rigs out there. Each has a limited crew and that crew recruits from their home community. Despite the run-up in fuel prices there hasn't been a sudden increase in orders for rigs.

Solar power and wind power on the other hand can provide hundreds of thousands of jobs with training periods of several weeks to several months. Add geothermal/geoexchange installation and we're talking millions of jobs.

Faced with an economy about to go into depression the coming president will have very few levers with which to return people to work. Even if solar/wind/geothermal power provided only a flat economic return over 20 years that would be cheaper than unemployment, law enforcement and prisons.

All indications are that a green jobs program would be wildly profitable to the economy as a whole. Compared to a bailout of crooked bankers it should be a shoe-in.

Put the Carbon Back


]]> Comment #3 by ce1907 http://www.grist.org/article/stock-arguments/ Sat, 04 Oct 2008 00:09:04 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/stock-arguments/3 should be

but did you notice the "deficit hawk" chatter about the tax extenders

in the course of discussing a bill to give away $700 billion to scofflaw mega-brokers, banks and billionaires?

]]> should be

but did you notice the "deficit hawk" chatter about the tax extenders

in the course of discussing a bill to give away $700 billion to scofflaw mega-brokers, banks and billionaires?

]]> Comment #4 by Jason D Scorse http://www.grist.org/article/stock-arguments/ Sun, 05 Oct 2008 04:23:27 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/stock-arguments/4 excellent points....

S&N are wrong for many reasons and this tops the list- they have a few catchy slogans but the substance is wrong-headed and as you point out they have nothing to actually back up their claims. The fact is that this is going to be very tough to do, especially in the midst of a financial meltdown. With McCain we can forget anything meaningful but with Obama we have a chance. The best thing we can do for the next month is make sure he wins and then do everything we can to pressure his administration to get serious, which they likely will....

We need to focus on the root causes of problems.

]]> excellent points....

S&N are wrong for many reasons and this tops the list- they have a few catchy slogans but the substance is wrong-headed and as you point out they have nothing to actually back up their claims. The fact is that this is going to be very tough to do, especially in the midst of a financial meltdown. With McCain we can forget anything meaningful but with Obama we have a chance. The best thing we can do for the next month is make sure he wins and then do everything we can to pressure his administration to get serious, which they likely will....

We need to focus on the root causes of problems.

]]>