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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Umbra on speed limits]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Bethunel</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:06:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>My new Drive 55 slogan</strong></p><p>Drive 55 because you can...and save gas too! &nbsp;Watch the world go speeding by!!</p>
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				<p><strong>My new Drive 55 slogan</strong></p><p>Drive 55 because you can...and save gas too! &nbsp;Watch the world go speeding by!!</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by fotografx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:21:19 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Take It To The Limit</strong></p><p>For a 1970's automobile 55MPH may have been an optimal compromise for gas saving. In 2005 for current automobiles (excepting SUV's) the most efficient speed is probaly closer to 75. <br>
Current passenger cars are far more aerodynamic than they were in 1970, and they are geared for much higher speeds at which the engine is functioning most efficiently.</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Take It To The Limit</strong></p><p>For a 1970's automobile 55MPH may have been an optimal compromise for gas saving. In 2005 for current automobiles (excepting SUV's) the most efficient speed is probaly closer to 75. <br>
Current passenger cars are far more aerodynamic than they were in 1970, and they are geared for much higher speeds at which the engine is functioning most efficiently.</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by kduble</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:59:28 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Feelings of futility</strong></p><p>One thing that has broken down since the 1970s is a shared sense of sacrifice. &nbsp;Back then, when I kept my subcompact at 55, I felt I was contributing to the greater good. &nbsp;Now, however, with our president putting his security detail in SUVs, police departments using SUVs, housewives driving SUVs, urban stockbrokers communting to work in farm trucks and the California governor driving Hummers, I feel kind of absurd trying to keep my 3-cylinder vehicle below 55.</p>
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				<p><strong>Feelings of futility</strong></p><p>One thing that has broken down since the 1970s is a shared sense of sacrifice. &nbsp;Back then, when I kept my subcompact at 55, I felt I was contributing to the greater good. &nbsp;Now, however, with our president putting his security detail in SUVs, police departments using SUVs, housewives driving SUVs, urban stockbrokers communting to work in farm trucks and the California governor driving Hummers, I feel kind of absurd trying to keep my 3-cylinder vehicle below 55.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Pandu</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:50:19 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>counterproductive<p>...the urge to pull off and get a Big Mac.<p>
<strong>Suggesting I slow down while she plugs fast food hamburgers.<p>
..........<br>
<a href="http://www.alternet.org/story/12162/" rel="nofollow">So You're an Environmentalist; Why Are You Still Eating Meat?<p>
<a href="http://www.goveg.com/environment.asp" rel="nofollow">Meat and the Environment</a></p></a></br></p></strong></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>counterproductive<p>...the urge to pull off and get a Big Mac.<p>
<strong>Suggesting I slow down while she plugs fast food hamburgers.<p>
..........<br>
<a href="http://www.alternet.org/story/12162/" rel="nofollow">So You're an Environmentalist; Why Are You Still Eating Meat?<p>
<a href="http://www.goveg.com/environment.asp" rel="nofollow">Meat and the Environment</a></p></a></br></p></strong></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by rsiddall</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:17:29 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Almost right</strong></p><p>Sorry, the laws of physics have not changed since the 1970's. &nbsp;The most efficient speed of a vehicle is still around 30 to 40 MPH. &nbsp;The drag coefficient of a new car may be a bit less than one from the 1970's but that doesn't affect the most efficient speed, only the overall fuel consumption.<br>
The most efficient speed will be the minimum it can pull the highest gear comfortably. &nbsp;If you go slower you'll have to use a lower gear and the the engine will fire more often to go the same distance. &nbsp;If you go faster, your drag losses will increase and so will the engine losses as the engine turns faster. &nbsp;This increases the load on the engine and the carb or fuel injection meters more fuel into the engine each time it fires.<br>
The laws of physics aren't any different for SUVs. They use more fuel as they're larger, and so have a bigger frontal area to multiply the drag coefficient by. &nbsp;They're also heavier, so they take more energy to accelerate and decelerate.</br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Almost right</strong></p><p>Sorry, the laws of physics have not changed since the 1970's. &nbsp;The most efficient speed of a vehicle is still around 30 to 40 MPH. &nbsp;The drag coefficient of a new car may be a bit less than one from the 1970's but that doesn't affect the most efficient speed, only the overall fuel consumption.<br>
The most efficient speed will be the minimum it can pull the highest gear comfortably. &nbsp;If you go slower you'll have to use a lower gear and the the engine will fire more often to go the same distance. &nbsp;If you go faster, your drag losses will increase and so will the engine losses as the engine turns faster. &nbsp;This increases the load on the engine and the carb or fuel injection meters more fuel into the engine each time it fires.<br>
The laws of physics aren't any different for SUVs. They use more fuel as they're larger, and so have a bigger frontal area to multiply the drag coefficient by. &nbsp;They're also heavier, so they take more energy to accelerate and decelerate.</br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by DaveBrook</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:40:22 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>75 mph most efficient speed NOT</strong></p><p>You talk about 55 mph being an "optimal compromise" (presumably between fuel efficiency and time to get to one's destination) but at the end of the sentence refer to efficiency. &nbsp;55 mph was a political compromise not some sort of engineering number. &nbsp;Even though the aerodynamic slipperiness of cars has gotten much better since the behemoths of the 70s, they haven't gotten THAT much better. &nbsp;I think you'll find that if you take a Honda Insight out on the highway, the most efficient speed will still be between 45-50 mph &nbsp;(but haven't done it). &nbsp;</p><p>
Are there any Insight (or other low "coefficient of drag" car owners out there want to tell us what their optimum speed is? &nbsp;Thanks.</p>
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				<p><strong>75 mph most efficient speed NOT</strong></p><p>You talk about 55 mph being an "optimal compromise" (presumably between fuel efficiency and time to get to one's destination) but at the end of the sentence refer to efficiency. &nbsp;55 mph was a political compromise not some sort of engineering number. &nbsp;Even though the aerodynamic slipperiness of cars has gotten much better since the behemoths of the 70s, they haven't gotten THAT much better. &nbsp;I think you'll find that if you take a Honda Insight out on the highway, the most efficient speed will still be between 45-50 mph &nbsp;(but haven't done it). &nbsp;</p><p>
Are there any Insight (or other low "coefficient of drag" car owners out there want to tell us what their optimum speed is? &nbsp;Thanks.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Kira</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:29:50 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Formula Won</strong></p><p>Thank you Umbra for not being afraid to use a formula to explain something. That's the first real explanation I've heard. I also very much doubt that 75 is most efficient for new cars. Since gas started competing with my mortgage payment, I've vowed to stick to the speed limit--which unfortunately is often over the 50-55 I'd heard was most efficient. But I recently got to Cape Cod and back (to Boston) on half a tank of gas instead of the 3/4 I expected.</p>
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				<p><strong>Formula Won</strong></p><p>Thank you Umbra for not being afraid to use a formula to explain something. That's the first real explanation I've heard. I also very much doubt that 75 is most efficient for new cars. Since gas started competing with my mortgage payment, I've vowed to stick to the speed limit--which unfortunately is often over the 50-55 I'd heard was most efficient. But I recently got to Cape Cod and back (to Boston) on half a tank of gas instead of the 3/4 I expected.</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by LauraH</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:34:41 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>drag is only half the answer</strong></p><p>In fact you can explain it pretty well without bringing drag into it at all. &nbsp;I believe rsidall has it right:<br>
"The most efficient speed will be the minimum it can pull the highest gear comfortably."<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;The aim is to drive at the lowest possible engine RPMs (revolutions per minute), because each revolution is driven by the pistons firing, using fuel. &nbsp;You also want to drive in the highest gear, because you get more distance out of each engine revolution.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This seems obvious to me, but I drive manual transmission vehicles all the time. &nbsp;I recently switched from a 90 Nissan pickup to a 94 Ranger pickup and noticed that the gearing is different - with the Nissan I shifted at 25kph, 40, 75, and 85, but with the Ranger it's 30, 50, 70, 90. &nbsp;So with the Nissan, the most efficient highway speed was 85, and with the Ranger it's 90. &nbsp;I haven't tested this, but I suspect that if I drove both at 100, the Ranger would be more efficient, but the Nissan at 85 should be better than the Ranger at 90. &nbsp;But with speed limits going up, 85 may be too slow for safety.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; So are newer vehicles more efficient? &nbsp;Depends on how you look at it.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Anybody have tips for figuring out the speed where your automatic shifts into top gear? &nbsp;That should be the speed to aim for (or enough over it to minimize downshifting).<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Now, with a continuously variable transmission (CVT) I suspect you would have to consider drag directly. &nbsp;The optimum speed would presumably be some sort of tradeoff between increased drag versus decreased engine running time for the same distance travelled.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;(BTW, the pickup is for work: I need the clearance and hauling capacity. &nbsp;The family car is a Geo Metro and my personal run-about is a bike.)</br></br></br></br></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>drag is only half the answer</strong></p><p>In fact you can explain it pretty well without bringing drag into it at all. &nbsp;I believe rsidall has it right:<br>
"The most efficient speed will be the minimum it can pull the highest gear comfortably."<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;The aim is to drive at the lowest possible engine RPMs (revolutions per minute), because each revolution is driven by the pistons firing, using fuel. &nbsp;You also want to drive in the highest gear, because you get more distance out of each engine revolution.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This seems obvious to me, but I drive manual transmission vehicles all the time. &nbsp;I recently switched from a 90 Nissan pickup to a 94 Ranger pickup and noticed that the gearing is different - with the Nissan I shifted at 25kph, 40, 75, and 85, but with the Ranger it's 30, 50, 70, 90. &nbsp;So with the Nissan, the most efficient highway speed was 85, and with the Ranger it's 90. &nbsp;I haven't tested this, but I suspect that if I drove both at 100, the Ranger would be more efficient, but the Nissan at 85 should be better than the Ranger at 90. &nbsp;But with speed limits going up, 85 may be too slow for safety.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; So are newer vehicles more efficient? &nbsp;Depends on how you look at it.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Anybody have tips for figuring out the speed where your automatic shifts into top gear? &nbsp;That should be the speed to aim for (or enough over it to minimize downshifting).<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; Now, with a continuously variable transmission (CVT) I suspect you would have to consider drag directly. &nbsp;The optimum speed would presumably be some sort of tradeoff between increased drag versus decreased engine running time for the same distance travelled.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;(BTW, the pickup is for work: I need the clearance and hauling capacity. &nbsp;The family car is a Geo Metro and my personal run-about is a bike.)</br></br></br></br></br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by rsiddall</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 03:40:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Or maybe slower</strong></p><p>I've been thinking about this and I think some vehicles will use less fuel if run at the minimum speed to pull a lower gear than top gear. &nbsp;Take a car that turns over at 1500 RPM at 30 MPH in one gear and 40 MPH in top gear. &nbsp;Even though the engine fires more times to do the journey at 30 MPH, because the drag force is much lower the carb or fuel injection may meter so much less fuel into the engine that the net fuel use is less than if you did the journey at 40 MPH.<br>
I remember being told (in the 1970's, I think) that the drag force was approximately equal to the engine loss at about 35 MPH. &nbsp;Presumably now we run thinner oil, the engine loss is less in modern vehicles, so drag starts to predominate at lower speeds than that.</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Or maybe slower</strong></p><p>I've been thinking about this and I think some vehicles will use less fuel if run at the minimum speed to pull a lower gear than top gear. &nbsp;Take a car that turns over at 1500 RPM at 30 MPH in one gear and 40 MPH in top gear. &nbsp;Even though the engine fires more times to do the journey at 30 MPH, because the drag force is much lower the carb or fuel injection may meter so much less fuel into the engine that the net fuel use is less than if you did the journey at 40 MPH.<br>
I remember being told (in the 1970's, I think) that the drag force was approximately equal to the engine loss at about 35 MPH. &nbsp;Presumably now we run thinner oil, the engine loss is less in modern vehicles, so drag starts to predominate at lower speeds than that.</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:00:49 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/speedlimit/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Economy driving.</strong></p><p>5 buck gas is almost here, as soon as Rita hits Galveston.</p><p>
Pulse driving is most efficient, no faster than 50 top speed. &nbsp;But when cars need to pass pull over a bit and slow down at a safe passing opurtunity.</p><p>
Not much &nbsp;use saving gas if it gets someone killed in traffic!</p><p>
You use moderate acceleration, say 1500 rpm, up to the speed limit, say 35, then coast to the next stop sign. &nbsp;It works but does not help the flow of traffic.</p>
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				<p><strong>Economy driving.</strong></p><p>5 buck gas is almost here, as soon as Rita hits Galveston.</p><p>
Pulse driving is most efficient, no faster than 50 top speed. &nbsp;But when cars need to pass pull over a bit and slow down at a safe passing opurtunity.</p><p>
Not much &nbsp;use saving gas if it gets someone killed in traffic!</p><p>
You use moderate acceleration, say 1500 rpm, up to the speed limit, say 35, then coast to the next stop sign. &nbsp;It works but does not help the flow of traffic.</p>
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