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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Even U.S. government says human emissions are changing climate]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:45:06 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Kent, WA USA Weather Is Extreme!!!</strong></p><p><br>
Extremely good!</p><p>
I rode my bike to work today...it's 70 and sunny for the foreseeable future.</p><p>
Thank you, Global Warming!</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Kent, WA USA Weather Is Extreme!!!</strong></p><p><br>
Extremely good!</p><p>
I rode my bike to work today...it's 70 and sunny for the foreseeable future.</p><p>
Thank you, Global Warming!</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by christophersj</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:05:18 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Jabailo the jester</strong></p><p>You know, Joseph Campbell used to say that all cultures NEED a jester/fool/clown because it reminds the more serious people to lighten up from time to time.</p><p>
And then Campbell went on to demonstrate with examples ranging from Native Americans to Pacific Islanders, there was indeed always a role for the clown/fool/jester in the majority of global cultures.</p><p>
Is that the role you are aiming for, Jabailo?</p><p>
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense and the less I should worry about you. &nbsp;It's not like you have any real impact on the coming carbon regulation and sustainable energy transition. &nbsp;You don't.</p><p>
By the way, its always nice to hear that you drive an efficient car and ride your bike. &nbsp;That's nice -- like your temporary and very local weather.</p>
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				<p><strong>Jabailo the jester</strong></p><p>You know, Joseph Campbell used to say that all cultures NEED a jester/fool/clown because it reminds the more serious people to lighten up from time to time.</p><p>
And then Campbell went on to demonstrate with examples ranging from Native Americans to Pacific Islanders, there was indeed always a role for the clown/fool/jester in the majority of global cultures.</p><p>
Is that the role you are aiming for, Jabailo?</p><p>
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense and the less I should worry about you. &nbsp;It's not like you have any real impact on the coming carbon regulation and sustainable energy transition. &nbsp;You don't.</p><p>
By the way, its always nice to hear that you drive an efficient car and ride your bike. &nbsp;That's nice -- like your temporary and very local weather.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:44:43 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Denial</strong></p><p>Many of us in the environmental movement recognized about 25 years ago that global warming was occurring and that it was caused by humans. &nbsp;The problem with addressing it, as I said at the time, was that the corporations that profit from causing it would launch a massive PR campaign to convince people that it either was not occurring or, if it were, that humans were not causing it. &nbsp;(I don't consider myself prescient, this was obvious.) &nbsp;Because people don't want to think that their lifestyles are causing serious environmental harms, they have been very reluctant to recognize the reality of global warming, preferring to believe the corporate PR.</p><p>
Now, even though it seems that most people have finally admitted the reality of the situation, they want the government to save us from ourselves, want some magical technology to save us, or both. &nbsp;Very few of us have been saying that we need to simplify our lifestyles to live in a more natural manner, especially those in overdeveloped countries like the U.S., Canada, Australia, and western Europe.</p><p>
Hopefully, people's attitudes toward this will continue to evolve so that they'll realize that they have some individual responsibilities and must change their lifestyles. &nbsp;Otherwise, humans will witness the end of life as we know it -- don't forget that global warming is only one of many equally serious environmental problems -- while realizing the causes.</p>
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				<p><strong>Denial</strong></p><p>Many of us in the environmental movement recognized about 25 years ago that global warming was occurring and that it was caused by humans. &nbsp;The problem with addressing it, as I said at the time, was that the corporations that profit from causing it would launch a massive PR campaign to convince people that it either was not occurring or, if it were, that humans were not causing it. &nbsp;(I don't consider myself prescient, this was obvious.) &nbsp;Because people don't want to think that their lifestyles are causing serious environmental harms, they have been very reluctant to recognize the reality of global warming, preferring to believe the corporate PR.</p><p>
Now, even though it seems that most people have finally admitted the reality of the situation, they want the government to save us from ourselves, want some magical technology to save us, or both. &nbsp;Very few of us have been saying that we need to simplify our lifestyles to live in a more natural manner, especially those in overdeveloped countries like the U.S., Canada, Australia, and western Europe.</p><p>
Hopefully, people's attitudes toward this will continue to evolve so that they'll realize that they have some individual responsibilities and must change their lifestyles. &nbsp;Otherwise, humans will witness the end of life as we know it -- don't forget that global warming is only one of many equally serious environmental problems -- while realizing the causes.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by christophersj</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:01:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Wolverine</strong></p><p>Wolverine, in a perfect world living just a low impact "natural" style would be enough but with the population we have I think &nbsp;technology will still play a major role. &nbsp;There isnt enough room for everyone to be hunter/gatherer or agrarian.</p><p>
I see no difference between the bow and arrow, plow, pulleys and sails, and a solar panels and low carbon producing jet planes and cars, and large properly managed shellfish farms. &nbsp;Its how they are used.</p><p>
At this point isn't SUSTAINABILITY the important goal for all, even if lifestyles differ?</p><p>
Can't the slick and futuristic AND the earthy and wholesome BOTH be used for getting 7 billion people to live a sustainable life?</p><p>
Forcing a certain kind of window dressing on some folks isnt going to work and will cause a backlash in some.</p><p>
That being said, I want to learn how to garden.</p>
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				<p><strong>Wolverine</strong></p><p>Wolverine, in a perfect world living just a low impact "natural" style would be enough but with the population we have I think &nbsp;technology will still play a major role. &nbsp;There isnt enough room for everyone to be hunter/gatherer or agrarian.</p><p>
I see no difference between the bow and arrow, plow, pulleys and sails, and a solar panels and low carbon producing jet planes and cars, and large properly managed shellfish farms. &nbsp;Its how they are used.</p><p>
At this point isn't SUSTAINABILITY the important goal for all, even if lifestyles differ?</p><p>
Can't the slick and futuristic AND the earthy and wholesome BOTH be used for getting 7 billion people to live a sustainable life?</p><p>
Forcing a certain kind of window dressing on some folks isnt going to work and will cause a backlash in some.</p><p>
That being said, I want to learn how to garden.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 05:32:50 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Significant Differences Between Lifestyles</strong></p><p>Christopher,</p><p>
The differences between, to use your example, sailing and using an internal combustion engine -- regardless of the fuel -- is that the former consumes nothing for propulsion, while the latter does. &nbsp;Because overconsumption is one of the two root causes of environmental and ecological harms and destruction, greatly reducing consumption is what's needed. &nbsp;And that's why major lifestyle changes are need; people need to greatly reduce their consumption. &nbsp;Unless you think that some magical technology is going to come along that allows the highly unnatural lifestyles of people in overdeveloped countries while greatly reducing consumption, which would be contrary to the laws of physics, there's no other way to fix this problem.</p><p>
As to there being too many people to live as hunter-gatherers, you're quite correct. &nbsp;But the solution is to greatly reduce human population, not to further destroy the Earth by continuing to live unnaturally and consume far too much.</p>
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				<p><strong>Significant Differences Between Lifestyles</strong></p><p>Christopher,</p><p>
The differences between, to use your example, sailing and using an internal combustion engine -- regardless of the fuel -- is that the former consumes nothing for propulsion, while the latter does. &nbsp;Because overconsumption is one of the two root causes of environmental and ecological harms and destruction, greatly reducing consumption is what's needed. &nbsp;And that's why major lifestyle changes are need; people need to greatly reduce their consumption. &nbsp;Unless you think that some magical technology is going to come along that allows the highly unnatural lifestyles of people in overdeveloped countries while greatly reducing consumption, which would be contrary to the laws of physics, there's no other way to fix this problem.</p><p>
As to there being too many people to live as hunter-gatherers, you're quite correct. &nbsp;But the solution is to greatly reduce human population, not to further destroy the Earth by continuing to live unnaturally and consume far too much.</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by christophersj</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:19:30 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/sorry-deniers-and-delayers-part-one/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Yes</strong></p><p>Yes I agree that over-consumption is a major factor.</p><p>
By the way, check out the new movie from PIXAR, titled "Wall-E". &nbsp;Its about over-consumption on Earth. &nbsp;Amazing animation.</p>
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				<p><strong>Yes</strong></p><p>Yes I agree that over-consumption is a major factor.</p><p>
By the way, check out the new movie from PIXAR, titled "Wall-E". &nbsp;Its about over-consumption on Earth. &nbsp;Amazing animation.</p>
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