<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for It’s a 1980 flashback, as energy price spikes make oil shale economical once again]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:03:57 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/1 The race is on

I remember when the big block V-8 engines were being replaced with six and four cylinder engines. There was a period of adjustment but V-8 engines are pretty rare now. We will have a similar transition to cars with double and triple today's mileage. People will find ways to use less gas. Oil shale will never be cheap. There is no way out of this but to use much much less.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> The race is on

I remember when the big block V-8 engines were being replaced with six and four cylinder engines. There was a period of adjustment but V-8 engines are pretty rare now. We will have a similar transition to cars with double and triple today's mileage. People will find ways to use less gas. Oil shale will never be cheap. There is no way out of this but to use much much less.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #2 by Energy revolutionary http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:08:27 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/2 Viability of renewables

Renewables are already proven, viable technologies - the race is not to prove it but to convince enough people in time to pressure governments to invest in renewable technologies. Check out this modelling which shows that Australia - which currently gets 80% of its electricity from coal - could phase out coal entirely in a shift to renewables and energy efficiency: http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/news-and-events/news/ ...

]]> Viability of renewables

Renewables are already proven, viable technologies - the race is not to prove it but to convince enough people in time to pressure governments to invest in renewable technologies. Check out this modelling which shows that Australia - which currently gets 80% of its electricity from coal - could phase out coal entirely in a shift to renewables and energy efficiency: http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/news-and-events/news/ ...

]]> Comment #3 by GreenEngineer http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:57:56 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/3 Oil shale *rolls eyes*

The absurdity of oil shale development was made clear to me when it was pointed out that unprocessed oil shale has a lower energy density than Capn Crunch cereal.  The same writer went on to comment that burning natural gas to extract oil from shale was like feeding steak to your dog and eating his Alpo.

Of course, if oil shale ever really gets going, it's not going to rely on natural gas.  Probably not coal either -- it'll be all about the nukes.

]]> Oil shale *rolls eyes*

The absurdity of oil shale development was made clear to me when it was pointed out that unprocessed oil shale has a lower energy density than Capn Crunch cereal.  The same writer went on to comment that burning natural gas to extract oil from shale was like feeding steak to your dog and eating his Alpo.

Of course, if oil shale ever really gets going, it's not going to rely on natural gas.  Probably not coal either -- it'll be all about the nukes.

]]> Comment #4 by Russ http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/ Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:49:31 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/4 disaster


That such a hideous idea could even be seriously considered is a testament to the depavity and literal insanity of America's oil addiction.
Let's go over it:

Given the tremendous energy requirements to bake the shale, the EROEI would be paltry at best, perhaps negative.

It would be astronomically expensive. Who's going to pay for it? (One of Pombo's bills, as you might imagine, would have socialized all the costs.)

It would require monumental amounts of water in a place already dying of thirst.

It would be an environmental cataclysm. Picture MTR throughout the Rocky Mountains.

Advocates of this, anyone who would actually try to do this, would be among the worst capital criminals of all times.

]]> disaster


That such a hideous idea could even be seriously considered is a testament to the depavity and literal insanity of America's oil addiction.
Let's go over it:

Given the tremendous energy requirements to bake the shale, the EROEI would be paltry at best, perhaps negative.

It would be astronomically expensive. Who's going to pay for it? (One of Pombo's bills, as you might imagine, would have socialized all the costs.)

It would require monumental amounts of water in a place already dying of thirst.

It would be an environmental cataclysm. Picture MTR throughout the Rocky Mountains.

Advocates of this, anyone who would actually try to do this, would be among the worst capital criminals of all times.

]]> Comment #5 by westside http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/ Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:57:30 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/5 Oil Shales, and the topic of Rust

I believe that Canada has recently enacted legislation to crack down on the carbon emissions of oil sands.  I'm still looking for references to actual bills/documents, so if anyone has come across them and could post them, I would greatly appreciate it. I found only this:

http://www.ec.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=714D9AAE-1& ...

Another topic regarding oil is the phenomenal amount of steel that goes into its infrastructure - from the drilling to the gas tank.  Here is a link to a presentation that outlines how rusting infrastructure could kill the oil economy before the effects of limited supply does.  

http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/files/OTC%202008.pdf

The point being that even in spite of emerging drilling and extraction technologies, a vast network of infrastructure is decaying and make them almost irrelevant.

]]> Oil Shales, and the topic of Rust

I believe that Canada has recently enacted legislation to crack down on the carbon emissions of oil sands.  I'm still looking for references to actual bills/documents, so if anyone has come across them and could post them, I would greatly appreciate it. I found only this:

http://www.ec.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=714D9AAE-1& ...

Another topic regarding oil is the phenomenal amount of steel that goes into its infrastructure - from the drilling to the gas tank.  Here is a link to a presentation that outlines how rusting infrastructure could kill the oil economy before the effects of limited supply does.  

http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/files/OTC%202008.pdf

The point being that even in spite of emerging drilling and extraction technologies, a vast network of infrastructure is decaying and make them almost irrelevant.

]]> Comment #6 by Des Emery http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/ Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:31:57 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/shale-mary/6 Shale

Both oil shale and oil sands are terrifically expensive sources of petroleum to put into barrels and pipelines to be sent thousands of miles for processing into gasoline.

 In fact, the expense of extraction was the prime reason for non-development of the resource for many years though the presence of the oil was well-known.

Is there some connection now between the current price at the pumps and the rush to give government sanction to Big Oil's 'exploration' and 'development' of the 'new' sources of energy?

Could the oil companies have manipulated the price of gasoline to justify the development of expensive extraction?  I wonder...

Arctic oil and gas, offshore drilling in deeper and deeper waters, hhmmm...  I guess that with enough manipulation and incubation an interested person could ensure that the egg does come before the chicken, after all.

Des Emery

]]> Shale

Both oil shale and oil sands are terrifically expensive sources of petroleum to put into barrels and pipelines to be sent thousands of miles for processing into gasoline.

 In fact, the expense of extraction was the prime reason for non-development of the resource for many years though the presence of the oil was well-known.

Is there some connection now between the current price at the pumps and the rush to give government sanction to Big Oil's 'exploration' and 'development' of the 'new' sources of energy?

Could the oil companies have manipulated the price of gasoline to justify the development of expensive extraction?  I wonder...

Arctic oil and gas, offshore drilling in deeper and deeper waters, hhmmm...  I guess that with enough manipulation and incubation an interested person could ensure that the egg does come before the chicken, after all.

Des Emery

]]>