<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for ‘Sea level in the Arctic is falling’—Sea level is a surprisingly complicated thing]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Zarkov http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/ Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:31:36 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/1 Volcanoes

They is a problem in theory.  Is the earth expanding ?

]]> Volcanoes

They is a problem in theory.  Is the earth expanding ?

]]> Comment #2 by Coby Beck http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/ Sat, 11 Nov 2006 06:54:51 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/2 no

the earth is not expanding.  The continents are not even moving at any speed relevant to climate change over the next century, or millenia, or 100Kyrs, or who cares how much longer?

Invent a clever saying, and your name will live forever! -- Anonymous

]]> no

the earth is not expanding.  The continents are not even moving at any speed relevant to climate change over the next century, or millenia, or 100Kyrs, or who cares how much longer?

Invent a clever saying, and your name will live forever! -- Anonymous

]]> Comment #3 by lgl http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/ Fri, 23 Feb 2007 02:47:25 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/3 Sea level / temp

Is there an explanation why the sea level kept rising between 1945-75 while the global temperature dropped?

]]> Sea level / temp

Is there an explanation why the sea level kept rising between 1945-75 while the global temperature dropped?

]]> Comment #4 by Coby Beck http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/ Fri, 06 Apr 2007 19:44:21 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/4 better late than never...?

Hi lgl,

A couple of possible factors come to mind.  Firstly is that the simple fact of slower response times would smooth over the more up and down global mean curve.  Observed sea level rise is primarily thermal expansion and icesheet/glacial melt, both more ponderous processes.  Secondly, if you look at N hemisphere vs S. hemisphere 20th century trends you will actually see that the S hemisphere did not ever show any prolonged cooling, rather more of a brief spike and return to gradual warming.  See here:
http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcrut3/diagnostics/hemisphe ...

I point this out because the majority of the earth's oceans are in the southern hemisphere.  This differing behaviour is also consistent with the fact that globally aerosol pollutions are more prevelant in the north.

"What if this weren't a hypothetical question?" -- unknown


]]> better late than never...?

Hi lgl,

A couple of possible factors come to mind.  Firstly is that the simple fact of slower response times would smooth over the more up and down global mean curve.  Observed sea level rise is primarily thermal expansion and icesheet/glacial melt, both more ponderous processes.  Secondly, if you look at N hemisphere vs S. hemisphere 20th century trends you will actually see that the S hemisphere did not ever show any prolonged cooling, rather more of a brief spike and return to gradual warming.  See here:
http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcrut3/diagnostics/hemisphe ...

I point this out because the majority of the earth's oceans are in the southern hemisphere.  This differing behaviour is also consistent with the fact that globally aerosol pollutions are more prevelant in the north.

"What if this weren't a hypothetical question?" -- unknown


]]> Comment #5 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/ Sat, 07 Apr 2007 02:34:25 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/5 Your Beach Is Now My Landfill


Clearly oceans will recede as ice melts and the earth crust expands due to heating.   Heat expands things.

Also, the caverns under the earth will open up and take in more of the sea water.   A huge underground sea has already been discovered in China.

My model predicts this precipitous drop in ocean levels confirmed by the Arctic.

The Texeme Construct offers international text memetics construction and textcasting services. http://www.you-read-it-here-first.com


]]> Your Beach Is Now My Landfill


Clearly oceans will recede as ice melts and the earth crust expands due to heating.   Heat expands things.

Also, the caverns under the earth will open up and take in more of the sea water.   A huge underground sea has already been discovered in China.

My model predicts this precipitous drop in ocean levels confirmed by the Arctic.

The Texeme Construct offers international text memetics construction and textcasting services. http://www.you-read-it-here-first.com


]]> Comment #6 by tico89 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/ Sat, 07 Apr 2007 03:17:36 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/6 But of course!

Obviously the sea level in the Arctic is falling. The Arctic's on top of the world, so as the ice melts, the sea flows down towards the bottom, which will make life tough for all those penguins. Duh!

Seriously, though, isn't this a bit like the 'it's cold today in __' one? It's the overall picture you have to look at.

]]> But of course!

Obviously the sea level in the Arctic is falling. The Arctic's on top of the world, so as the ice melts, the sea flows down towards the bottom, which will make life tough for all those penguins. Duh!

Seriously, though, isn't this a bit like the 'it's cold today in __' one? It's the overall picture you have to look at.

]]> Comment #7 by GreyFlcn http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/ Sat, 07 Apr 2007 05:26:42 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/7 Well

I dunno about Antartica

But I have heard that in Alaska, the issue is not so much that the sea level has been changing.

It's that the land underneath the ice is decompressing as the ice melts off.

_

Not sure if this is the case in this discussion.

]]> Well

I dunno about Antartica

But I have heard that in Alaska, the issue is not so much that the sea level has been changing.

It's that the land underneath the ice is decompressing as the ice melts off.

_

Not sure if this is the case in this discussion.

]]> Comment #8 by mrick http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/ Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:23:24 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/8 Possibility

I have a simple and somewhat not well thought out theory for sea level rise that may be pure genius or way wrong.

Could the rise as shown in the graph be the result of the erosion of the earth's land masses into the oceans?  What is the volume of mud that streams into the oceans from all of the great rivers like the Mississippi, Nile etc. and isn't that going to displace water at a 1 to 1 ratio?  Add in all of the beach erosion from wave action and wind erosion - which all should be fairly steady over time or more likely increasing due to human developments - and perhaps causing ocean levels to rise at a steady to increasing rate.

I can't think of any forces that work in reverse by depositing eroded material flushed into the oceans back onto the land.  Only plate tectonics can do this but I would think plates around the world are both sinking and rising and thereby offsetting each other.

Just a thought.

]]> Possibility

I have a simple and somewhat not well thought out theory for sea level rise that may be pure genius or way wrong.

Could the rise as shown in the graph be the result of the erosion of the earth's land masses into the oceans?  What is the volume of mud that streams into the oceans from all of the great rivers like the Mississippi, Nile etc. and isn't that going to displace water at a 1 to 1 ratio?  Add in all of the beach erosion from wave action and wind erosion - which all should be fairly steady over time or more likely increasing due to human developments - and perhaps causing ocean levels to rise at a steady to increasing rate.

I can't think of any forces that work in reverse by depositing eroded material flushed into the oceans back onto the land.  Only plate tectonics can do this but I would think plates around the world are both sinking and rising and thereby offsetting each other.

Just a thought.

]]> Comment #9 by Coby Beck http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/ Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:04:04 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/9 balance and timescales

Hi mrick,

Without doing any measurements, I would think a step back and bit of thought would put this into perspective.

Erosion is not new, (despite the books for sale at the Grand Canyon gift shop) so if erosion were outpacing tectonic activity wouldn't we already have a pretty flat and worn down land surface?

Sea level has fallen and come back up by over 100 metres many times over the last million years and was even 150 metres higher than it is today 10's of millions of years ago.  Unless you have a reason to believe land has eroded and reformed this quickly it would seem this is not a significant factor in past sea level changes.

And if this is to explain current trends (which already have a very well supported explanation btw) you need to demonstrate some major change having occured.

"What if this weren't a hypothetical question?" -- unknown

]]> balance and timescales

Hi mrick,

Without doing any measurements, I would think a step back and bit of thought would put this into perspective.

Erosion is not new, (despite the books for sale at the Grand Canyon gift shop) so if erosion were outpacing tectonic activity wouldn't we already have a pretty flat and worn down land surface?

Sea level has fallen and come back up by over 100 metres many times over the last million years and was even 150 metres higher than it is today 10's of millions of years ago.  Unless you have a reason to believe land has eroded and reformed this quickly it would seem this is not a significant factor in past sea level changes.

And if this is to explain current trends (which already have a very well supported explanation btw) you need to demonstrate some major change having occured.

"What if this weren't a hypothetical question?" -- unknown

]]> Comment #10 by MF http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/ Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:38:45 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/10 Yeah, but...

If all the ice melts down, shouldn't the sea level...er...decrease?

]]> Yeah, but...

If all the ice melts down, shouldn't the sea level...er...decrease?

]]> Comment #11 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/ Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:48:30 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/sea-level-in-the-arctic-is-falling/11 See The Pretty Chart


What a nice chart...it's called "Climate Art" as it is a work of fiction.   If you follow the links to its origins it says that it's based on PSMSL data.

I followed the links and I got to a page like this:

http://www.pol.ac.uk/psmsl/psmsl_individual_stations.html ...

Tons of individual monitoring stations.  So, where is the data that was actually used to paint those summary data points?   I suppose I will have to look at each of these stations to see if someone is cooking the books.

I've already presented data from NOAA showing that there are more low tide anomalies than high tide anomalies around the US coast.  

My Log


]]> See The Pretty Chart


What a nice chart...it's called "Climate Art" as it is a work of fiction.   If you follow the links to its origins it says that it's based on PSMSL data.

I followed the links and I got to a page like this:

http://www.pol.ac.uk/psmsl/psmsl_individual_stations.html ...

Tons of individual monitoring stations.  So, where is the data that was actually used to paint those summary data points?   I suppose I will have to look at each of these stations to see if someone is cooking the books.

I've already presented data from NOAA showing that there are more low tide anomalies than high tide anomalies around the US coast.  

My Log


]]>