Grist - Comment Feed for It ain’t pretty

Comment #1 by scatter

Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:00:25 -0700

The core science of this programme demolished....

...very neatly today in the Guardian by George Monbiot:

http://snipurl.com/swindle

Comment #2 by dotcommodity

Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:35:54 -0700

Don't call them Denialists"

They are "The Pro-Extinction Movement"

Comment #3 by Junkk Male2

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 00:16:09 -0700

It's not just what you say. It's who's listening.

All very well 'n good.

For those who may not have had a chance to see it, you can get a flavour of the offending piece here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6IPHmJWmDk ... for now.

I'm afraid that no matter what else I may think, I would feel unable to dismiss it as standard hackery, even if I think I understand what that term is trying to conjure up.

I'd hazard that, to your average Joe on their sofa, this is slick, calm, considered, credible, easy on the eye and ear, with a large selection of talking heads with impressive titles (the co-founder of Greenpeace! That blew me away, I have to admit, though being unaware for now what the back story is or may be. Doubtless I will be advised that he is 'discredited'). I also have to say that some of the factual footage of techniques used to discredit these 'deniers' was handled... convincingly.

I might add that it's all a bit like stuff I get fed by what might call the 'other side'.

So I was/am seduced in part, and will have to delve more to try and weigh what is said and by whom against alternatives. Hence I will try to get what may approximate to actuality inbetween the two, sadly usually as served up by compliant and/or often complicit media with agendas of their own (principally this is a rating point rather than any desire to educate or inform objectively, else we would see well-balanced debates stocked with all sides. So the remark about the environmental journalism industry having a vested interest in keeping the frenzy at fever pitch is noted, but rather undermined by the fact that there seems a very healthy anti-environmentalism industry turning a healthy buck too. It would be nice to get past all this, move on and let the whole lot get a real job at Starbucks).

Most time-poor folk are unlikely to do so.

So it's possibly a shame that the majority of the UK population, and even those who tuned in to Against Nature, won't ever read George Monbiot's rebuttal, as opposed to watching a primetime TV show or even a more highbrow niche news piece, such as BBC 2's Newsnight - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2007/03/monday_12_ma ...

If it caused a sensation anywhere, it's not too much of one as that was about all I could find here by way of mass media.

He makes good points, but it's also a pity all comment is closed on Mr. Monbiot's piece (the link is to his own site) already. However, I am not sure he is too worried about critics: http://junkk.blogspot.com/2007/03/george-of-rumble.html Look out Richard Branson (and those who stand beside him), George is watching!

I just wanted to ask what 'syllogism' meant. I'm personally of the view that staying so highbrow is not the best way to get the punters onside with anything else you may go on to say, though I'm sure it makes your posh mates dead impressed and start blogging away in awe.

But, if we are really trying to effect positive change, whose interests are being served first, if at all, by such an approach?

If you can be bothered, here's a link to another very heavy set of academic to & fros to see an example of death match shuffleboard on the Titanic, with the winner left to rearrange the deckchairs.

http://junkk.blogspot.com/2007/03/weekend-of-planet-repor ...

All together now... hit it, Celine...!

Back to the shed. I don't know what I don't know. But I do know that it has to be worth any and all ways to do things to reduce waste, improve efficiencies and, at least, consider acceptable ways to start reduction.

Ignoring GW/CC completely, simple maths shows the value of this. One spherical planet, with a finite livable area with an equally finite area for sustaining resources. And an ever-expanding population, many of whom can afford and even more of whom will soon be able to afford all sorts of 'stuff' and travel.

There has to be a point where that circle cannot be squared.

Do before you talk. Then share. If it's also fun and inspiring, people will want to read more. They may even be inspired follow your example.

Comment #4 by scatter

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 00:28:27 -0700

Looks like it's still open on Comment is Free?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2032575, ...

I agree that not many will see the rebuttals. I've spoken to a few of my friends in real life and others on forums who've seen this and I was staggered by how readily they accepted this programme.

Comment #5 by Delay And Deny

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 02:18:34 -0700

What Claims?

It's ridiculous that you should launch into an attack on this documentary without ever telling us what they said or allowing them to present their opinions.

You offer a rebuttal without an argument!

Silly, Grist, tricks are for kids...

The Texeme Construct offers international text memetics construction and textcasting services. http://www.you-read-it-here-first.com

Comment #6 by scatter

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 02:40:24 -0700

here you go...

Pt1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPKUVmLW8Nk
Pt2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D2WB71k44o
Pt3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROpkcESEXPc
Pt4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ0DD5xUvuw

You can find Parts 5,6,7 and 8 yourself. It does go on a bit...

Comment #7 by Delay And Deny

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:05:56 -0700

Also Playing on Bittorrent

Thanks! I find it's also available as a Bittorrent. I have to start this download tonight!

Global Warming Swindle Bittorents

The Texeme Construct offers international text memetics construction and textcasting services. http://www.you-read-it-here-first.com

Comment #8 by GreyFlcn

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:51:28 -0700

Patrick Moore - AntiEnvironment Mercenary

Well, lets start off with

Patrick Moore is not a GreenPeace CoFounder

He's paid greenwashing consultant, and has been for the past 15 years.

Here's his website
http://www.greenspiritstrategies.com/F6.cfm

And here's Moores history
http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/7/2007/1502

Various Debunking of this show:
http://www.jri.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&ta ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2032570,00 ...

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swi ...

Comment #9 by TokyoTom

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:14:32 -0700

More "Swindle" debunking

here:
http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pure_propaganda_th ...

Comment #10 by GreyFlcn

Sat, 17 Mar 2007 04:44:42 -0700

The producer shows his true character

"Dr Leroi was concerned about..a correlation between solar activity and global temperatures..revealed as flawed by subsequent research by Peter Laut"

In an e-mail exchange leaked to The Times, Martin Durkin, the executive producer of The Great Global Warming Swindle, responded "Never mind an irresponsible bit of film-making. Go and f*** yourself".

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article1 ...