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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Stop dwelling on the climate change nightmare and dream about change]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Erik Hoffner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:09:14 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>kids<p>True all. I recall that cloud well, Joe. <p>
This is one of the reasons the momentum of the "no child left inside" movement is so key right now:<p>
<a href="http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/240/" rel="nofollow">http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/2 ...<p>
...kids won't care about/make informed choices about climate impacts unless they've first connected to their local outdoors. <p>
And meanwhile, devleoping the positive vision for a greener future is critical: the Van Jones sort of vision that he and others are articulating so well right now. Majora Carter of Sustainable South Bronx, too: <a href="http://www.ssbx.org/mission.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ssbx.org/mission.html <p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.orionsociety.org/ogn" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: 1,100+ grassroots groups working for conservation &amp; more
</a></p></p></a></p></p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>kids<p>True all. I recall that cloud well, Joe. <p>
This is one of the reasons the momentum of the "no child left inside" movement is so key right now:<p>
<a href="http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/240/" rel="nofollow">http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/2 ...<p>
...kids won't care about/make informed choices about climate impacts unless they've first connected to their local outdoors. <p>
And meanwhile, devleoping the positive vision for a greener future is critical: the Van Jones sort of vision that he and others are articulating so well right now. Majora Carter of Sustainable South Bronx, too: <a href="http://www.ssbx.org/mission.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ssbx.org/mission.html <p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.orionsociety.org/ogn" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: 1,100+ grassroots groups working for conservation &amp; more
</a></p></p></a></p></p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:10:39 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>The correct link...<p>...to <a href="http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/20/introducing-bill-becker" rel="nofollow">Presidential Climate Action Project".</a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>The correct link...<p>...to <a href="http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/20/introducing-bill-becker" rel="nofollow">Presidential Climate Action Project".</a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:16:57 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Then Stop Scaring the Kids!!!<p><br>
Do you want the nightmares to go away?<p>
Then how about stopping the exaggerated IPCC comments from getting to kids about 80 foot sea rises when this science is barely understood!!!

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Then Stop Scaring the Kids!!!<p><br>
Do you want the nightmares to go away?<p>
Then how about stopping the exaggerated IPCC comments from getting to kids about 80 foot sea rises when this science is barely understood!!!

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://sutext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Sutext:</a></br></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:36:34 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>The Right will keep this up...</strong></p><p>...because there is a disconnect between the enormity of the global warming problem, and the solutions, most of which only deal with a portion of the way to an emission-free world. &nbsp;Until the enviro/policy leaders start talking about what a fossil-fuel-free world looks like, not just what a 20%-reduced fossil-fuel world looks like, the Right will exploit the problem of painting a nightmare without giving a solution.</p><p>
I think people are scared of scaring away people by painting the picture of a fossil-fuel-free world, but without that picture, people will just be scared, period.</p>
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				<p><strong>The Right will keep this up...</strong></p><p>...because there is a disconnect between the enormity of the global warming problem, and the solutions, most of which only deal with a portion of the way to an emission-free world. &nbsp;Until the enviro/policy leaders start talking about what a fossil-fuel-free world looks like, not just what a 20%-reduced fossil-fuel world looks like, the Right will exploit the problem of painting a nightmare without giving a solution.</p><p>
I think people are scared of scaring away people by painting the picture of a fossil-fuel-free world, but without that picture, people will just be scared, period.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Steve Bloom</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:50:07 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Not nearly frightened enough<p>I had been aware of the pieces of this particular puzzle, but hadn't seen them put together quite like <a href="http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&amp;oe=utf-8&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&amp;client=firefox-a&amp;tab=wn&amp;ncl=1122574364&amp;hl=en&amp;btclp=1&amp;scoring=r" rel="nofollow">this. <p>
FYI, Bailo, our understanding of the mechanisms for sea level rise is quite good. &nbsp;It's indisputable that business as usual emissions over the course of this century will commit both the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets to collapse. &nbsp;It's the details and timing that are still in question. &nbsp;I had thought that the models for ice sheet disintegration needed a lot more work, but per a brief conversation I had the other day with a modeler at NSIDC, that's not the case. &nbsp;What's mainly lacking at this point is a detailed deep radar mapping of the underlying topography of the ice sheets. &nbsp;That's underway, however, and within a few years we should start seeing results. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Not nearly frightened enough<p>I had been aware of the pieces of this particular puzzle, but hadn't seen them put together quite like <a href="http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&amp;oe=utf-8&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&amp;client=firefox-a&amp;tab=wn&amp;ncl=1122574364&amp;hl=en&amp;btclp=1&amp;scoring=r" rel="nofollow">this. <p>
FYI, Bailo, our understanding of the mechanisms for sea level rise is quite good. &nbsp;It's indisputable that business as usual emissions over the course of this century will commit both the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets to collapse. &nbsp;It's the details and timing that are still in question. &nbsp;I had thought that the models for ice sheet disintegration needed a lot more work, but per a brief conversation I had the other day with a modeler at NSIDC, that's not the case. &nbsp;What's mainly lacking at this point is a detailed deep radar mapping of the underlying topography of the ice sheets. &nbsp;That's underway, however, and within a few years we should start seeing results. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by bmoninna</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:51:49 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>We need to give them a reason...</strong></p><p>...to work for change. &nbsp;It's called a pedagogy of place. &nbsp;Connect what you're learning to where you live. &nbsp;Not something far off and hard to imagine, like the polar ice caps. &nbsp;But your very own back yard. &nbsp;"The Best of Both Worlds: A Critical Pedagogy of Place" by David Gruenwald, published in the Educational Researcher, is a good place to start if you're interested.

<p>brig
"The difference between a cow and a bean is a bean can begin an adventure!" - Into The Woods</p></p>
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				<p><strong>We need to give them a reason...</strong></p><p>...to work for change. &nbsp;It's called a pedagogy of place. &nbsp;Connect what you're learning to where you live. &nbsp;Not something far off and hard to imagine, like the polar ice caps. &nbsp;But your very own back yard. &nbsp;"The Best of Both Worlds: A Critical Pedagogy of Place" by David Gruenwald, published in the Educational Researcher, is a good place to start if you're interested.

<p>brig
"The difference between a cow and a bean is a bean can begin an adventure!" - Into The Woods</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Max Weintraub</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 04:29:28 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Solutions tough when acknowledgment absent<p>Right on...but, just like an alcoholic in denial, we are still having difficulty acknowledging the problem. &nbsp;Just two days ago draft language about the health impacts of climate change upon children (and other populations) was cut from testimony to the U.S. Senate given by the head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.<p>
See page 7...<br>
<a href="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/gerberding.testimony.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents ...

<p>Max Weintraub is the director of the Environmental Justice &amp; Health Union
</p></a></br></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Solutions tough when acknowledgment absent<p>Right on...but, just like an alcoholic in denial, we are still having difficulty acknowledging the problem. &nbsp;Just two days ago draft language about the health impacts of climate change upon children (and other populations) was cut from testimony to the U.S. Senate given by the head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.<p>
See page 7...<br>
<a href="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/gerberding.testimony.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents ...

<p>Max Weintraub is the director of the Environmental Justice &amp; Health Union
</p></a></br></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by ids</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:30:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Right again about the future</strong></p><p>American kids want to be winners like their grand/parents, the boomers who grew with the Bomb drama. &nbsp;MAD was the center for American progress for boomers, switch duck-and-cover to capture-and-sequester, tell the kids it'll be o.k., we'll switch from oil to corn, since it is all ours to begin with like the coal. &nbsp;Don't upset the children, they might lash back, and God forbid, don't upset the Corp.'s, they may crush US. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>Right again about the future</strong></p><p>American kids want to be winners like their grand/parents, the boomers who grew with the Bomb drama. &nbsp;MAD was the center for American progress for boomers, switch duck-and-cover to capture-and-sequester, tell the kids it'll be o.k., we'll switch from oil to corn, since it is all ours to begin with like the coal. &nbsp;Don't upset the children, they might lash back, and God forbid, don't upset the Corp.'s, they may crush US. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by PolluteLessDotCom</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:42:47 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>The kids I have met<p>Folks, I teach. Grades 6-12. The kids see the problem and they are worried. They also see that if radical change is needed very little is happening. Depending on their age, they have learned the lessons from their parents and grand-parents and will not veer far away from what they have learned as to be acceptable. <p>
Nevertheless, most of them see that something needs to happen and that most likely it is them who will bring the change (since it is so obvious that anyone older than 14 isn't doing much). Unfortunately, concern for the environment has become a marketing tool and more and more items are marketed and sold &nbsp;with some sort of "green" benefit. For kids it is difficult to see behind the facade. They trust that if it says low fat it is low fat, just like environmentally friendly must mean that it actually is good for the environment. &nbsp;<p>
The kids do not need to be made scared. They need to be educated to make good decisions, to learn how to live well without damaging the environment, and become critical thinkers. The data is all there. What they are not aware of is that "green" has become a fashion and that the issue is VERY COMPLICATED since almost anything we do in North America has a negative impact on our future situation. There are no easy and simple solutions and old habits have to be broken. Kids have to learn that they will need to do it themselves rather than follow their parent's attitudes or believe that corporations will put concerns for the environment before immediate company profits.<p>
Offer them good solutions and they will try. They are the biggest optimists on the planet.<p>
Karsten<br>
<a href="http://www.polluteless.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.polluteless.com</a></br></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>The kids I have met<p>Folks, I teach. Grades 6-12. The kids see the problem and they are worried. They also see that if radical change is needed very little is happening. Depending on their age, they have learned the lessons from their parents and grand-parents and will not veer far away from what they have learned as to be acceptable. <p>
Nevertheless, most of them see that something needs to happen and that most likely it is them who will bring the change (since it is so obvious that anyone older than 14 isn't doing much). Unfortunately, concern for the environment has become a marketing tool and more and more items are marketed and sold &nbsp;with some sort of "green" benefit. For kids it is difficult to see behind the facade. They trust that if it says low fat it is low fat, just like environmentally friendly must mean that it actually is good for the environment. &nbsp;<p>
The kids do not need to be made scared. They need to be educated to make good decisions, to learn how to live well without damaging the environment, and become critical thinkers. The data is all there. What they are not aware of is that "green" has become a fashion and that the issue is VERY COMPLICATED since almost anything we do in North America has a negative impact on our future situation. There are no easy and simple solutions and old habits have to be broken. Kids have to learn that they will need to do it themselves rather than follow their parent's attitudes or believe that corporations will put concerns for the environment before immediate company profits.<p>
Offer them good solutions and they will try. They are the biggest optimists on the planet.<p>
Karsten<br>
<a href="http://www.polluteless.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.polluteless.com</a></br></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by dbaker</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:08:46 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>dream about change</strong></p><p><br>
Human Excrement + Nuclear Waste = Hydrogen</p><p>
dream on that for a while and then contact me</p><p>
Dennis Baker

<p>because I think what you are doing is very essential for the survival of the planet, and anybody who is hindering that needs to be pushed aside.
</p></br></p>
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				<p><strong>dream about change</strong></p><p><br>
Human Excrement + Nuclear Waste = Hydrogen</p><p>
dream on that for a while and then contact me</p><p>
Dennis Baker

<p>because I think what you are doing is very essential for the survival of the planet, and anybody who is hindering that needs to be pushed aside.
</p></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by Tom Athanasiou</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 15:51:58 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>I tried it on my son</strong></p><p>Last week I got a call from a journalist who was doing an article on the anxiety and depression problems that she was having because of the climate crisis. &nbsp;After talking for a while, we agreed that the real reason she was so depressed is that she felt powerless. &nbsp;In other words, she'd already gotten the memo about building a better future, but was obsessing on the fact that other people (she kept talking about SUVs and styrofoam) seemed to her to be determined to avert their eyes for as long as possible. &nbsp;</p><p>
That is to say, it was the everyday denialists surrounding her, as much as the crisis itself, that were freaking her out. &nbsp;</p><p>
I filed this as interesting, but it didn't really sink in until a few days later, when I was talking to my 11 year old son. &nbsp;Climate came up, as it often does around our house. &nbsp;I gave him a mixed but optimistic rap, focusing on the positive, "we can make a better world: angle. &nbsp;And he replied in words quite like the journo's. &nbsp;In effect: "Yeah, sure dad, but most people don't want to change, so what makes you think it's going to happen?"</p><p>
Stopped me in my tracks a bit.

<p>Tom Athanasiou
(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
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				<p><strong>I tried it on my son</strong></p><p>Last week I got a call from a journalist who was doing an article on the anxiety and depression problems that she was having because of the climate crisis. &nbsp;After talking for a while, we agreed that the real reason she was so depressed is that she felt powerless. &nbsp;In other words, she'd already gotten the memo about building a better future, but was obsessing on the fact that other people (she kept talking about SUVs and styrofoam) seemed to her to be determined to avert their eyes for as long as possible. &nbsp;</p><p>
That is to say, it was the everyday denialists surrounding her, as much as the crisis itself, that were freaking her out. &nbsp;</p><p>
I filed this as interesting, but it didn't really sink in until a few days later, when I was talking to my 11 year old son. &nbsp;Climate came up, as it often does around our house. &nbsp;I gave him a mixed but optimistic rap, focusing on the positive, "we can make a better world: angle. &nbsp;And he replied in words quite like the journo's. &nbsp;In effect: "Yeah, sure dad, but most people don't want to change, so what makes you think it's going to happen?"</p><p>
Stopped me in my tracks a bit.

<p>Tom Athanasiou
(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
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            <title>Comment #12 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 16:43:00 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/save-the-children/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>confusion too<p>Yes, Tom, the outlook, itself depressing enough, is made worse by the denialists, and by the spectacle of all those clueless inactives who know nothing and do nothing.<p>
But on top of that, as though that were not bad enough, there are confusing mixed messages. &nbsp;Note this cheery report (or is it not supposed to be cheery?) on how things are looking up for horticulture in southern Greenland, the land of melting glaciers, and not all that far from the about-to-drown-or-starve polar bears:<p>
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/world/europe/28greenland.html?_r=1&amp;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/world/europe/28greenlan ...

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>confusion too<p>Yes, Tom, the outlook, itself depressing enough, is made worse by the denialists, and by the spectacle of all those clueless inactives who know nothing and do nothing.<p>
But on top of that, as though that were not bad enough, there are confusing mixed messages. &nbsp;Note this cheery report (or is it not supposed to be cheery?) on how things are looking up for horticulture in southern Greenland, the land of melting glaciers, and not all that far from the about-to-drown-or-starve polar bears:<p>
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/world/europe/28greenland.html?_r=1&amp;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/world/europe/28greenlan ...

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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