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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Republican platform acknowledges climate change but spurns &#8216;no-growth&#8217; radicalism]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by DarkFaculties</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 09:47:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Gah . . .</strong></p><p>Right-wing talking points . . . too many of them at once . . . brain . . . turning to . . . mush ....</p>
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				<p><strong>Gah . . .</strong></p><p>Right-wing talking points . . . too many of them at once . . . brain . . . turning to . . . mush ....</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by mreinbold</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:26:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>DarkFaculties</strong></p><p>I think you are already there.</p>
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				<p><strong>DarkFaculties</strong></p><p>I think you are already there.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by MAD MAC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:15:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>It doesn't matter what they say</strong></p><p>You would disregard it. People on Grist are almost all to the far left of center.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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				<p><strong>It doesn't matter what they say</strong></p><p>You would disregard it. People on Grist are almost all to the far left of center.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by vakibs</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:55:39 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>republicans choose the language<p> force Americans to sacrifice their way of life or trim their hopes and dreams for their children<p>
The former (way of life) is contradictory to the latter (dreams for their children). Is wastage of food, wastage of energy or the wastage of neurons in people's brains : is it the american way of life ? If you define it thus, then ofcourse, this has to change, to preserve the dreams of our future generations. What part of this is difficult to understand ? &nbsp;<p>
 doomsday climate change scenarios peddled by the aficionados of centralized command-and-control government<p>
Doomsday climate change scenarios are a clear and distinct possibility. They are "peddled" by scientists of all hues, if you care to listen to the scientific debate. They are no aficiandos of centralized command-control government here. Infact, the problem is indeed centralized-command-control economic power vested in a powerful few. Republican leadership are just puppets of these people (read big oil). <p>
 It would be unrealistic and counterproductive to expect the U.S. to carry burdens which are more appropriately shared by all.<p>
Preventing climate change is not a "burden". It is common sense. If Republicans care even a little about American leadership in the world, they will accept that responsibility. But what they care about is not American leadership, but American exploitation of world's resources. <p>
Wake up, this era is coming to an end in a multi-polar world. <p>
 address the risk of climate change based on sound science without succumbing to the no-growth radicalism that treats climate questions as dogma rather than as situations to be managed responsibly. <p>
Economic growth is always possible in a no-carbon economy. It is not a no-growth scenario. In fact, there are lots of green-collar jobs to be made and the US manufacturing industry will receive a boom by adopting green economic policies. It is the fossil-fuel based economy which faces clearly defined limits to economic growth, because these reserves are drying up and they are by no means sustainable. <p>
And please, climate-science is not a dogma. You know what "dogma" means ? Turn the pages of the dictionary : a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church. For example, (a) intelligent design based on biblical dates (b) laisse faire economics (c) opposition to cell culture and other Republican talkative points classify as "dogma". In contrast, climate-science works by analysis, feedback and scientific criticism. <p>
People in power cannot afford to be "stupid". People in power should not be "greedy". Republican ideology is a dangerous cocktail of the two. <p>
<b>First thing, we should end using the Republican language in our debates.  <p>
The problem with Republican ideology is clear (a) Too much power to big oil (b) Too little investment in the alternative energies of future (c) Sacrifice of science for the sake of petty self-interests. <p>
This is what the debate should be about. 

<p>Let's think in terms of <a href="http://the-redpill.blogspot.com/2008/08/eco-dollar-future-global-currency.html" rel="nofollow">eco-dollars.</a></p></p></p></b></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>republicans choose the language<p> force Americans to sacrifice their way of life or trim their hopes and dreams for their children<p>
The former (way of life) is contradictory to the latter (dreams for their children). Is wastage of food, wastage of energy or the wastage of neurons in people's brains : is it the american way of life ? If you define it thus, then ofcourse, this has to change, to preserve the dreams of our future generations. What part of this is difficult to understand ? &nbsp;<p>
 doomsday climate change scenarios peddled by the aficionados of centralized command-and-control government<p>
Doomsday climate change scenarios are a clear and distinct possibility. They are "peddled" by scientists of all hues, if you care to listen to the scientific debate. They are no aficiandos of centralized command-control government here. Infact, the problem is indeed centralized-command-control economic power vested in a powerful few. Republican leadership are just puppets of these people (read big oil). <p>
 It would be unrealistic and counterproductive to expect the U.S. to carry burdens which are more appropriately shared by all.<p>
Preventing climate change is not a "burden". It is common sense. If Republicans care even a little about American leadership in the world, they will accept that responsibility. But what they care about is not American leadership, but American exploitation of world's resources. <p>
Wake up, this era is coming to an end in a multi-polar world. <p>
 address the risk of climate change based on sound science without succumbing to the no-growth radicalism that treats climate questions as dogma rather than as situations to be managed responsibly. <p>
Economic growth is always possible in a no-carbon economy. It is not a no-growth scenario. In fact, there are lots of green-collar jobs to be made and the US manufacturing industry will receive a boom by adopting green economic policies. It is the fossil-fuel based economy which faces clearly defined limits to economic growth, because these reserves are drying up and they are by no means sustainable. <p>
And please, climate-science is not a dogma. You know what "dogma" means ? Turn the pages of the dictionary : a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church. For example, (a) intelligent design based on biblical dates (b) laisse faire economics (c) opposition to cell culture and other Republican talkative points classify as "dogma". In contrast, climate-science works by analysis, feedback and scientific criticism. <p>
People in power cannot afford to be "stupid". People in power should not be "greedy". Republican ideology is a dangerous cocktail of the two. <p>
<b>First thing, we should end using the Republican language in our debates.  <p>
The problem with Republican ideology is clear (a) Too much power to big oil (b) Too little investment in the alternative energies of future (c) Sacrifice of science for the sake of petty self-interests. <p>
This is what the debate should be about. 

<p>Let's think in terms of <a href="http://the-redpill.blogspot.com/2008/08/eco-dollar-future-global-currency.html" rel="nofollow">eco-dollars.</a></p></p></p></b></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by mreinbold</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 23:32:55 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>MAD MAC</strong></p><p>you said it.</p>
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				<p><strong>MAD MAC</strong></p><p>you said it.</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by stevenearlsalmony</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 23:49:27 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Shedding light on a need for economic changes now<p>...... with the hope assuring a substainable global economy and a good enough future for our children.<p>
How is adequate, sustained attention to be drawn to the greedy kings and self-proclaimed masters of the universe who are responsible for the perpetration of such a colossal, fraudulent and patently unsustainable scheme as we see in the rampant process of seemingly endless economic globalization?<p>
At least to me, it appears that the huge scale of unbridled global economic growth is a canker threatening to overspread and eventually ruin Earth as a fit place for human habitation. &nbsp;<p>
Changing from an unsustainable world economy to a sustainable one has got to be made the goal, does it not? &nbsp;<p>
Steven Earl Salmony<br>
AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population,<br>
established 2001<br>
<a href="http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php</a></br></br></br></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Shedding light on a need for economic changes now<p>...... with the hope assuring a substainable global economy and a good enough future for our children.<p>
How is adequate, sustained attention to be drawn to the greedy kings and self-proclaimed masters of the universe who are responsible for the perpetration of such a colossal, fraudulent and patently unsustainable scheme as we see in the rampant process of seemingly endless economic globalization?<p>
At least to me, it appears that the huge scale of unbridled global economic growth is a canker threatening to overspread and eventually ruin Earth as a fit place for human habitation. &nbsp;<p>
Changing from an unsustainable world economy to a sustainable one has got to be made the goal, does it not? &nbsp;<p>
Steven Earl Salmony<br>
AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population,<br>
established 2001<br>
<a href="http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php</a></br></br></br></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by MAD MAC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 00:09:38 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Steve no one disagrees with this in principal</strong></p><p>"Changing from an unsustainable world economy to a sustainable one has got to be made the goal, does it not?"</p><p>
The issues are what constitutes "sustainable" and how do you get there from here without causing massive disruption to the global economy with it's attendant suffering and warfare.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Steve no one disagrees with this in principal</strong></p><p>"Changing from an unsustainable world economy to a sustainable one has got to be made the goal, does it not?"</p><p>
The issues are what constitutes "sustainable" and how do you get there from here without causing massive disruption to the global economy with it's attendant suffering and warfare.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by sindark</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 00:25:54 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Science and ideology<p>One of the most regrettable things about contemporary conservatism - aside from forgetting Edmund Burke's notion of humanity as stewards of the natural world - is the unwillingness to acknowledge basic scientific realities. Sometimes, this is because of ideological conflicts; acknowledging the immense danger posed by climate change basically means admitting that government regulation is required.<p>
We can only hope that improvements in national science education will eventually emerge and help to render such falsehoods recognizable to most of the populace.

<p><a href="http://www.sindark.com/" rel="nofollow">a sibilant intake of breath</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Science and ideology<p>One of the most regrettable things about contemporary conservatism - aside from forgetting Edmund Burke's notion of humanity as stewards of the natural world - is the unwillingness to acknowledge basic scientific realities. Sometimes, this is because of ideological conflicts; acknowledging the immense danger posed by climate change basically means admitting that government regulation is required.<p>
We can only hope that improvements in national science education will eventually emerge and help to render such falsehoods recognizable to most of the populace.

<p><a href="http://www.sindark.com/" rel="nofollow">a sibilant intake of breath</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by stevenearlsalmony</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 01:12:37 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Dear MAD MAC and Sindark.............<p>Would reason and common sense not suggest that the family of humanity open discussions of the "basic scientific realities" so that some kind of meaningful effort can be made to move from a patently unsustainable, unbridled world economy to a global economy that is a substantial and sustainable one?<p>
If the manmade economy is constructed as a 'perpetual motion machine' and managed as a colossal pyramid scheme, then economists can be expected to promulgate new, more reality-oriented theories, to develop new business models and to accomplish goals worthy of the Nobel Prizes we want them to earn. <p>
Sincerely,<p>
Steve<p>
Steven Earl Salmony<br>
AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population,<br>
established 2001<br>
<a href="http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php</a></br></br></br></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Dear MAD MAC and Sindark.............<p>Would reason and common sense not suggest that the family of humanity open discussions of the "basic scientific realities" so that some kind of meaningful effort can be made to move from a patently unsustainable, unbridled world economy to a global economy that is a substantial and sustainable one?<p>
If the manmade economy is constructed as a 'perpetual motion machine' and managed as a colossal pyramid scheme, then economists can be expected to promulgate new, more reality-oriented theories, to develop new business models and to accomplish goals worthy of the Nobel Prizes we want them to earn. <p>
Sincerely,<p>
Steve<p>
Steven Earl Salmony<br>
AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population,<br>
established 2001<br>
<a href="http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php</a></br></br></br></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by MAD MAC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 02:24:10 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Steve, it's just not that easy</strong></p><p>Even if you could get everyone to agree (and face it, we can't even get science to agree on much) on the nature of the problem, that does not mean you will get everyone to agree on the solution. </p><p>
There is no world government, and if there were, it would doubtless not be altruistic in its approaches to global issues or the humanity it governed. There's no reason to assume it would at any rate.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Steve, it's just not that easy</strong></p><p>Even if you could get everyone to agree (and face it, we can't even get science to agree on much) on the nature of the problem, that does not mean you will get everyone to agree on the solution. </p><p>
There is no world government, and if there were, it would doubtless not be altruistic in its approaches to global issues or the humanity it governed. There's no reason to assume it would at any rate.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 02:31:04 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>The only good part</strong></p><p>"It also calls for a repeal of the biofuels mandate"</p><p>
How about eliminating the subsidies too?

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin</p></p>
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				<p><strong>The only good part</strong></p><p>"It also calls for a repeal of the biofuels mandate"</p><p>
How about eliminating the subsidies too?

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by stevenearlsalmony</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 04:13:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>Given the global challenges looming.......</strong></p><p>.......so ominously before the family of humanity, I can certainly agree with you, MAD MAC, that "it's just not that easy." &nbsp;The challenges we can see in the offing are daunting. &nbsp;Of that there is virtually no doubt. &nbsp;But keeping one's head in the sand as visible threats to human and environmental health become larger and more difficult to address, much less overcome, is anathema to me. </p><p>
Once again, MAD MAC and Sindark deserve our thanks for speaking out loudly, clearly and often. </p>
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				<p><strong>Given the global challenges looming.......</strong></p><p>.......so ominously before the family of humanity, I can certainly agree with you, MAD MAC, that "it's just not that easy." &nbsp;The challenges we can see in the offing are daunting. &nbsp;Of that there is virtually no doubt. &nbsp;But keeping one's head in the sand as visible threats to human and environmental health become larger and more difficult to address, much less overcome, is anathema to me. </p><p>
Once again, MAD MAC and Sindark deserve our thanks for speaking out loudly, clearly and often. </p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by mreinbold</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 06:05:20 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Steve..........principal (sic)</strong></p><p>MAD MAC, at the risk of sounding like an elitist, I would suggest that the word you want is "principle."</p>
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				<p><strong>Steve..........principal (sic)</strong></p><p>MAD MAC, at the risk of sounding like an elitist, I would suggest that the word you want is "principle."</p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by mreinbold</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 06:07:37 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/14</guid>
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				<p><strong>Thanks</strong></p><p>MAD MAC and Sindark</p>
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				<p><strong>Thanks</strong></p><p>MAD MAC and Sindark</p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by Pangolin</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 08:38:13 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/15</guid>
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				<p><strong>Disrupt the global economy....<p>We can plan such a disruption.<p>
Or.<p>
We can watch it happen as the Australians are doing now. <p>
Choose. 

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Disrupt the global economy....<p>We can plan such a disruption.<p>
Or.<p>
We can watch it happen as the Australians are doing now. <p>
Choose. 

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #16 by MAD MAC</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:51:42 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/16</guid>
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				<p><strong>Again, Pangolin, it's not that simple</strong></p><p>"We can plan such a disruption.</p><p>
Or.</p><p>
We can watch it happen as the Australians are doing now.</p><p>
Choose."</p><p>
We as a country can plan and make some adjustments. We as a world can not. The world governance, such as it is, can not direct member states to do anything. Anyone who pays attention to global politics can very quickly grasp that mankind can not approach global problems of substance that require massive change in any kind of unified manner. It has not happened, it will not happen. So, to answer your question, we will grapple with these problems as individual states. It won't be a planned event. It can't be. What you seek is not possible.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Again, Pangolin, it's not that simple</strong></p><p>"We can plan such a disruption.</p><p>
Or.</p><p>
We can watch it happen as the Australians are doing now.</p><p>
Choose."</p><p>
We as a country can plan and make some adjustments. We as a world can not. The world governance, such as it is, can not direct member states to do anything. Anyone who pays attention to global politics can very quickly grasp that mankind can not approach global problems of substance that require massive change in any kind of unified manner. It has not happened, it will not happen. So, to answer your question, we will grapple with these problems as individual states. It won't be a planned event. It can't be. What you seek is not possible.

<p>Victory in Pattani</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #17 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 17:57:18 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/17</guid>
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				<p><strong>&quot;centralized command-and-control&quot;!</strong></p><p>Crazy! &nbsp;Just crazy! &nbsp;There is that anti-"collectivist" panic again!</p><p>
Hey, you GOP denialists, the reality is:</p><p>


NO Democrat has ever discouraged personal initiative, or argued that it should not be appropriately rewarded;</p><p>
NO Democrat has ever encouraged a loafing lifestyle of do-nothingness, supported by public subsidy;</p><p>
NO Democrat has ever instructed Americans to lie in feckless readiness, passively awaiting commandments from DC;</p><p>
NO Democrat has ever recommended any kind of feeble escapism, or panic, or despair, through the promotion of an alleged "doomsday scenario."</p><p>


Assertions to the contrary are simply lies.</p><p>
And one of the things that makes it so difficult for us Democrats to work with Republicans is precisely that so many Republicans believe those lies, and work to spread them.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>&quot;centralized command-and-control&quot;!</strong></p><p>Crazy! &nbsp;Just crazy! &nbsp;There is that anti-"collectivist" panic again!</p><p>
Hey, you GOP denialists, the reality is:</p><p>


NO Democrat has ever discouraged personal initiative, or argued that it should not be appropriately rewarded;</p><p>
NO Democrat has ever encouraged a loafing lifestyle of do-nothingness, supported by public subsidy;</p><p>
NO Democrat has ever instructed Americans to lie in feckless readiness, passively awaiting commandments from DC;</p><p>
NO Democrat has ever recommended any kind of feeble escapism, or panic, or despair, through the promotion of an alleged "doomsday scenario."</p><p>


Assertions to the contrary are simply lies.</p><p>
And one of the things that makes it so difficult for us Democrats to work with Republicans is precisely that so many Republicans believe those lies, and work to spread them.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #18 by stevenearlsalmony</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:21:03 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/18</guid>
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				<p><strong>Dear MAD MAC.....</strong></p><p>Do you not think it is just a bit early to be declaring that "What you &#123;I&#125; seek is not possible"? </p><p>
For a moment consider what your words tell us: that you know what the future holds. &nbsp;Who knows what is and is not possible? &nbsp;</p><p>
It was Einstein, as I recall, who said something like, "the consciousness that creates certain conditions cannot be the consciousness that determines what to do about changing those conditions." &nbsp;People of another consciousness are needed for the work of productive adaptation, I suppose. Our children are likely to be possessors of a new consciousness, I believe; but how, pray tell me, are the children to be successful if their elders either behave like ostriches with heads in the sand or else pose as individuals who are bereft of clear vision, intellectual honesty and moral courage.</p><p>
From my humble perspective, global challenges are visible on the far horizon and need to be acknowledged, addressed and overcome. &nbsp;Period. &nbsp;No "ifs", "ands" or "buts" about it.</p><p>
Sincerely,</p><p>
Steve</p>
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				<p><strong>Dear MAD MAC.....</strong></p><p>Do you not think it is just a bit early to be declaring that "What you &#123;I&#125; seek is not possible"? </p><p>
For a moment consider what your words tell us: that you know what the future holds. &nbsp;Who knows what is and is not possible? &nbsp;</p><p>
It was Einstein, as I recall, who said something like, "the consciousness that creates certain conditions cannot be the consciousness that determines what to do about changing those conditions." &nbsp;People of another consciousness are needed for the work of productive adaptation, I suppose. Our children are likely to be possessors of a new consciousness, I believe; but how, pray tell me, are the children to be successful if their elders either behave like ostriches with heads in the sand or else pose as individuals who are bereft of clear vision, intellectual honesty and moral courage.</p><p>
From my humble perspective, global challenges are visible on the far horizon and need to be acknowledged, addressed and overcome. &nbsp;Period. &nbsp;No "ifs", "ands" or "buts" about it.</p><p>
Sincerely,</p><p>
Steve</p>
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            <title>Comment #19 by gzuckier</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 00:51:37 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/19</guid>
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				<p><strong>grist bloggers are all far left of center, eh?</strong></p><p>reminds me of the middle ages, when &nbsp;it was clear to all right thinking christians that the vatican was, literally, the center of the universe and galileo and his ilk were heretics. now we're much more advanced, and we no longer believe that wherever you happen to be standing is the center of the physical universe; now it's just the center of the political and/or moral universe. like somebody's hiked out to each end of the political spectrum and pounded in a stake so's you could measure and find the objective center and thereby determine who's way out there beyond the pale.</p><p>
in case i'm not making myself perfectly clear; what a smugly ignorant twitty thing to believe.</p>
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				<p><strong>grist bloggers are all far left of center, eh?</strong></p><p>reminds me of the middle ages, when &nbsp;it was clear to all right thinking christians that the vatican was, literally, the center of the universe and galileo and his ilk were heretics. now we're much more advanced, and we no longer believe that wherever you happen to be standing is the center of the physical universe; now it's just the center of the political and/or moral universe. like somebody's hiked out to each end of the political spectrum and pounded in a stake so's you could measure and find the objective center and thereby determine who's way out there beyond the pale.</p><p>
in case i'm not making myself perfectly clear; what a smugly ignorant twitty thing to believe.</p>
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            <title>Comment #20 by gzuckier</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 00:54:24 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/20</guid>
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				<p><strong>don't want to disrupt the global economy</strong></p><p>yeah, don't want to rock the boat now that the world is nice and peaceful and stable and we've eliminated poverty and starvation for everyone... &nbsp;^_^</p>
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				<p><strong>don't want to disrupt the global economy</strong></p><p>yeah, don't want to rock the boat now that the world is nice and peaceful and stable and we've eliminated poverty and starvation for everyone... &nbsp;^_^</p>
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            <title>Comment #21 by gzuckier</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 01:00:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/21</guid>
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				<p><strong>smugly ignorant twitty thing</strong></p><p>that was a smugly ignorant twitty thing for me to say, and i apologize. if i can't learn not to post when i'm in a bad mood, i should at least learn to take a minute topreview what i write before i post it.</p>
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				<p><strong>smugly ignorant twitty thing</strong></p><p>that was a smugly ignorant twitty thing for me to say, and i apologize. if i can't learn not to post when i'm in a bad mood, i should at least learn to take a minute topreview what i write before i post it.</p>
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            <title>Comment #22 by gzuckier</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 01:01:57 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/22</guid>
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				<p><strong>the irony, the irony.....</strong></p><p>" i should at least learn to take a minute topreview what i write before i post it."</p><p>
aaaaahhhhhh!!!!!<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>the irony, the irony.....</strong></p><p>" i should at least learn to take a minute topreview what i write before i post it."</p><p>
aaaaahhhhhh!!!!!<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #23 by stevenearlsalmony</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 04:40:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/23</guid>
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				<p><strong>Dear qzuckier............<p>You report,<p>
" don't want to disrupt the global economy<p>
yeah, don't want to rock the boat now that the world is nice and peaceful and stable and we've eliminated poverty and starvation for everyone... &nbsp;^_^ "<p>
Thanks for saying what is so obvious and so real. &nbsp;You are correct. &nbsp;Just as you suggest, people with wealth and the power it purchases like things just the way they are and, as you put it, do not want to "rock the boat." &nbsp;Everyone can see the point you are making; however, you have likely noticed that not everyone is saying what you are saying. Perhaps wealthy people and their bought-and-paid-for politicians "preach" silence in the face of what is real about the world we inhabit and eschew the words of open, honest and courageous people regarding what is real about the human condition: armed conflicts in many places &#123;but not in enclaves of the wealthy and powerful&#125;; economic bubbles, Ponzi games and pyramid schemes underwriting soon to become unsustainable global economic growth; rampant political destabilization; poverty affecting billions of people and massive starvation of millions of children; diseases and pestilence........<p>
Thanks for speaking truth to power so succinctly, loudly and clearly.<p>
Steven Earl Salmony<br>
AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population,<br>
established 2001<br>
<a href="http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php</a></br></br></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Dear qzuckier............<p>You report,<p>
" don't want to disrupt the global economy<p>
yeah, don't want to rock the boat now that the world is nice and peaceful and stable and we've eliminated poverty and starvation for everyone... &nbsp;^_^ "<p>
Thanks for saying what is so obvious and so real. &nbsp;You are correct. &nbsp;Just as you suggest, people with wealth and the power it purchases like things just the way they are and, as you put it, do not want to "rock the boat." &nbsp;Everyone can see the point you are making; however, you have likely noticed that not everyone is saying what you are saying. Perhaps wealthy people and their bought-and-paid-for politicians "preach" silence in the face of what is real about the world we inhabit and eschew the words of open, honest and courageous people regarding what is real about the human condition: armed conflicts in many places &#123;but not in enclaves of the wealthy and powerful&#125;; economic bubbles, Ponzi games and pyramid schemes underwriting soon to become unsustainable global economic growth; rampant political destabilization; poverty affecting billions of people and massive starvation of millions of children; diseases and pestilence........<p>
Thanks for speaking truth to power so succinctly, loudly and clearly.<p>
Steven Earl Salmony<br>
AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population,<br>
established 2001<br>
<a href="http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/index.php</a></br></br></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #24 by stevenearlsalmony</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:21:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/24</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Dear G. Zuckier...........</strong></p><p>You report,<br>
" don't want to disrupt the global economy</p><p>
yeah, don't want to rock the boat now that the world is nice and peaceful and stable and we've eliminated poverty and starvation for everyone... &nbsp;^_^ "</p><p>
G. Zuckier, this is only a guess, but the last two postings of the four (4) consecutive missives you introduced in this thread lead me to ask you an unexpected question.</p><p>
Are your words &#123;in quotations above&#125; a Freudian slip &#123;verbal 'mistakes' that are thought to reveal unconscious truth&#125;?</p><p>
Sincerely,</p><p>
Steve<br>
</br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Dear G. Zuckier...........</strong></p><p>You report,<br>
" don't want to disrupt the global economy</p><p>
yeah, don't want to rock the boat now that the world is nice and peaceful and stable and we've eliminated poverty and starvation for everyone... &nbsp;^_^ "</p><p>
G. Zuckier, this is only a guess, but the last two postings of the four (4) consecutive missives you introduced in this thread lead me to ask you an unexpected question.</p><p>
Are your words &#123;in quotations above&#125; a Freudian slip &#123;verbal 'mistakes' that are thought to reveal unconscious truth&#125;?</p><p>
Sincerely,</p><p>
Steve<br>
</br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #25 by stevenearlsalmony</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 22:57:58 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/rnc-were-no-doom-sayers-on-climate/25</guid>
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				<p><strong>G. Zuckier................</strong></p><p>You report,</p><p>
" don't want to disrupt the global economy</p><p>
yeah, don't want to rock the boat now that the world is nice and peaceful and stable and we've eliminated poverty and starvation for everyone... &nbsp;^_^ "</p><p>
Were your latter posts attempts to undo what you said &#123;in quotations above&#125;, as if to magically cover-up or deny your actual, intentional understandings?</p><p>
Sincerely,</p><p>
Steve</p>
			]]></description>
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				<p><strong>G. Zuckier................</strong></p><p>You report,</p><p>
" don't want to disrupt the global economy</p><p>
yeah, don't want to rock the boat now that the world is nice and peaceful and stable and we've eliminated poverty and starvation for everyone... &nbsp;^_^ "</p><p>
Were your latter posts attempts to undo what you said &#123;in quotations above&#125;, as if to magically cover-up or deny your actual, intentional understandings?</p><p>
Sincerely,</p><p>
Steve</p>
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