>> we suck at long-term risk assessment.

Noah will you move that Ark out of my driveway!!!

>> Why have we approached the Iraq War and global warming with such different attitudes?

The Iraq war was a promise of expected gains...oil

GW is seen by many as 'wonderful' locally, human beings like being warm.  Few can conceive the problem in its entirety, drought is a bother, but it will rain again!!!!(won't it?)

To delve into the future is mostly a fantasy exercise...What are the chances of a doomsdayist being completely correct....

We are a spoiled group, who know things can go wrong locally, but globally no-way now, maybe it will happen some long time into the future, who knows..

Basically humanity sucks

They are little creatures scurrying around, making incremental gains in society and really going nowhere, trusting [god] that everything will be alright and actively demeaning any talk of tomorrow's consequences.... too many words/concepts to digest...go away  

But we all know death is inevitable so the end of the world is inevitable, right?  'What can I alone do about it', they say, 'it is beyond little old me, I don't want to think about it'...

and so the stage is set, the play written but left unread, and all humanity is strutting their stuff until they all fall down dead. It is inevitable

Really no one cares one way or the other, we are but pawns in the game of LIFE.

That is one side, the side most people show, but that really pisses me off.

Human beings are the flowers of LIFE, we are designed to make technology to spread LIFE's seed throughout space, either by intent or by destruction.  LIFE does not care either way.

Our Options
We should care, I chose the "by intent" approach to seeding, that would make this cycle of LIFE on this planet an perennial super-organism, ready to rise again.

Apathy (too hard to act/think/believe/care) leads to the default option, where LIFE is an annual super-organism.  

In my opinion, the latter is what the set in motion future holds, because not only are people apathetic, they are violently persecutive and all too ready to shoot the messenger.  This messenger, banned from almost every science web site... says so be it,....die.  LIFE never dies

Should I care?

(you bet I do, I will fight to the last breath)

Some people get it, some do not.  Why?

I see most people going about their daily routines of jobs, babies, construction,... oblivious to the danger.

I must be boring, all I think about, care about is global climate destruction.  As I watch Celtic Women sing Irish culture I dwell on the probability that Irish history will buried under 100 feet of ice.  Meanwhile, people around me talk about anything but global warming.   Am I becoming a bore?

Seattle Mayor Nickels is a leading advocate of global warming awareness, yet he plans waterfront developments, like expressway tunnels, with no worries.  Seattle is very vulnerable to a rise in sea level, so is the Port of Tacoma, Olympia, Bellingham, and so on.

I am just amazed at this disconnect.  Even without limbic reactions, it is so illogical.

Over in Britain a report was commisioned on GW, the Stern Report, by Chancellor Gordon Browne - much hysteria ensued. What has Browne done about it? put £5 extra tax on an airline seat!
There is, of course, talk of carbon credits. Ordinary folk over there have enough trouble getting their tax credits let alone some looney addition thst they cannot fully comprehend. Extra VAT that can be tracked for accountability would be better - though it is all another layer of bureaucracy.
You would think that with the Thames outside their windows that Brit politicians would be more focused.Yet they can't even focus on Trident and the hypocracy of those in power.
Incidentally the word is that Browne has frozen out Stern who is returning to academe; he will be
concerned with India henceforth - wonder if fears
of famine on that packed subcontinent will focus his mind.

There are no gods, no goddesses - only The Mother. The Earth is our Mother... and if you don't behave, she'll clout you!

Be very carefull of "Time", almost every sentence contains either an outright lie or a mistake.

Typical nonsense, an article based on the psychoanalytic ad hominem fallacy.  If the topic at hand is global climate change, the article is not about the facts surrounding any solutions, it is all about why we are psychologically incapable of action.  Our brains are hardwired for failure in this area, so throw up your hands or accept some sort of dictatorship of the corporate elite to solve this problem for us.

And the corporate elite solutions?  Ethanol and nuclear power of course!  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

The Chamber of Commerce in Conway, NH (just over the ME/NH border from my town, in the Mount Washington Valley region), recently hosted a climate change expert to speak at one of their member events. Some of what he said was in an article in yesterday's paper. Things like in 2075, this region will have a climate like Washington, DC or Raleigh, NC. No more snow and skiing is a big deal here, a huge percentage of the economy. That the maples and fir trees will die, replaced with oaks, so no more beautiful fall foliage, no more maple syrup. He talked about the economic impacts to NH and the local region due to the changing climate given that tourism makes up the biggest chunk of the economy. This is assuming we continue as we are. I ask: Why are people here doing nothing? How can businesses continue to expand, expand snowmaking, expand rooms, space, etc.? How can we continue to build more roads, approve more development in former woodlands or fields? How can people make such shitty decisions given what they know? Sunflower is right. It's a huge disconnect. I have regular column in that paper I referred to above and folks must be getting tired of reading me because it seems that every other column is on climate change. Some new information, some different angle, because it's all I can think about. It doesn't only cross my mind occasionally, it's on my mind all the time. The losses deeply sadden me. I may not live to see the worst of them, but I'm already seeing changes and I'll probably hang around for a few more years yet since I'm pushing 54, so I'll see plenty more. I try to treasure the beauty that surrounds me today, knowing how impermanent it is. I only wish that I could believe, like the generations that went before me, that winter would always bring snow and that my favorite places will remain constant despite the passage of years.

I'm moving north ahead of the warming, that way at least my local surroundings won't reflect the destruction quite as badly.

The antidote for this sadness is to fight tooth and nail.  Do NOT let these excuses for quietism offered up every day stand!

Sadly, an (un)healthy representative sample of this destructive nonsense is offered up here daily.  Of all places one would think it would be different here.

Nope, the same old talking point propaganda, but at least here there are countervailing voices.  In the media there is nothing but the latest spin.  Even when Gore layed it out so clearly in his movie, the excuses range from denial to despair.

The only solutions talked about?

Nuclear power, "clean" coal, flex fuel vehicles, fuel farmed ethanol and biodiesel,the fabulous (as in the root word "fable") hydrogen energy economy,and hybrids that save hardly any fuel without the plugin option.  

Where are the stories on homes powered with solar, electric plugin vehicles, solid oxide fuel cells, large wind and wave power installations, superconducting energy storage, and distributed renewable energy storage and distribution?

Without exposure these real world solutions remain unknown to the public.  The latest revelations about new technology indicate that if only 25% of US switched to renewables and plugin/ fuel cell vehicles, the american contribution to global climate change could be reversed.

And as it turns out the US, the biggest consumer market for everything with the most influence on what is manufactured everywhere, is more resistant to change than any other nation.  

The media is enabling this corporate corruption of government.  Corporate controlled media.  Here in blogland it ought to be different.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

Why doesn't "Time" feature a homeowner that has used conservation and renewable energy right on the cover where it gets some real exposure.

And articles on all these technology breakthroughs all through the magazine.  Because it would hurt their "credibility"?  After all, they really have no actual credibility, only the mis-perception created by corporate media shilling.

Instead we get ridiculous psycho-babble about how humans can't respond to crisis?  If that is so, how DID we win WW2?  Has corporate media genetically modified us all from humans into sheep?  Sheople?  

Looking at the past six years, omitting these most recent election results, that impossible scenario seemed almost plausible.  The corporate shill media is mushroom farming, keeping we the people in the dark and feeding us shit.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

Amazing, you rhetorically ask a question about the US response to WWII.  I think that is instructive.  There were many reasons why the US should have declared war on the Axis powers before December 7, 1941.  The US had been tolerating the unspeakable aggressions of Germany and Japan in Europe and East Asia, including great losses suffered by our historic allies, France and Britain and the Netherlands.  (By the way, thanks for joining us, Richard Esser!)  Clearly, the response of the US after the attack on Pearl Harbor could not have been different; but why did it take such an event, to provoke the US to respond at all?

Similarly, 9/11 "changed everything."  But why?  I for one was appalled and horrified by the East African embassy bombings of August, 1998.  I was very disturbed by the accounts of the many citizens of Nairobi, trapped in awful pain in the rubble for many days.  The initial Clinton response, to launch a bunch of cruise missiles, was not at all impressive; and then, even worse, the Clinton people let the matter drop.

David and Richard are right to consider ingrained psychological patterns, that generally have been successfully adaptive since the Pleistocene.  From our own artistic sensibilities rather than any sophisticated knowledge of psychology, we can all agree how eye-arresting are strong design contrasts of colors (e.g. yellow against purple, red against green), and of values (black against white), as well as certain strongly contrasting patterns, as in checkerboards, or stripes.  Our eye also responds to unexpected rapid movements in our peripheral vision.  If this was all helpful in keeping us on our toes in a world of tigers and snakes and crocodiles, I guess it worked.

So, we all have this ingrained alarmist response faculty.  But then, being social animals, we have a much more complex set of second-order reactions, regarding what we are to do with the alarmist responses of others in our community.

This is where I find myself rather at sea, especially as regards public spokespeople for environmentalist issues.  I have no idea what the right level of concern environmentalists ought to project, in order to be "effective."  Presumably, we can at least agree that different contexts, different audiences, might require different approaches.

On the discrediting of environmentalists as being intolerably alarmist, I suspect the situation is rather far more complicated than just an issue about alarmist speech.  That is, it is in the interests of conservatives -- in the bad sense, people who want to do nothing, and who want the status quo to continue status-quo-ing -- to discredit such missionaries of radical change as environmentalists; and targeting their "alarmism" is just a tactic in their strategy of discrediting.

So, I do not know, does David's line of questioning reduce to wondering how best to appeal to otherwise neutral and ill-educated citizen-consumers?  Or, rather, does it have to do with combatting the propaganda of the environmentalists' foes?

Richard Eller introduces the interesting subject of genetically modified foods, and regulations on the marketing of them.  It is a good analogy to global warming, and the dire precautions against GM-crops from environmentalists might indeed constitute one of the one-too-many cases of crying wolf.  It seems to me that while the planting of GM seeds does indeed need to be strictly regulated, the marketing of the crops should be more freely permitted, provided there is adequate information given to consumers.  There is definitely need for adult supervision; but it is doubtful whether there is need just yet for alarm.

Chickens are our cousins! So are other sensitive animals! Enough is enough! No more factory farms!

>> Sheople?   The corporate shill media is mushroom farming, keeping we the people in the dark and feeding us shit.>>>  YES...but.....

Is it the end of the world? [not now but has the train left the station?]

This is the problem.  Can we do anything about our future, without causing 'fear'?  Or can we use fear to motivate us?
Indeed do we really have a future even if we act now?

As a scientist I have my doubts, but everyday as the 'GW(oil)' scenario unfolds I get positive reinforcement from actual (predicted by me) events and now I 'fear' that I may be right.  I hope I am not!!!!

So there is this mental vacillation which does not help positive action.

Pearl Harbour was an act that was undeniably motivating and it lead to positive action. But the world is still green, and rain (in some parts of the world) is still falling, but in others chaos rules.

In Australia right now, fire is showing what could happen to the world as it dries out.  One possibility (maybe even probable, since this has happened in geological time) is for fires to engulf all organic matter worldwide and deplete atmospheric oxygen levels.  We all fall down, just like that!

Really when you look into such a future it is very very "fearful", but is that future real.

I live in Tasmania, clean green and almost an unknown place, where there is no real evidence of any catastrophic problems. I chose this place 30 years ago because of "fear" of what I thought was about to unfold.  

When you have children, fear is a powerfully motivating force..... and the fear for the loss of the world's future should motivate us all, even if we do go over the top sometimes.

But just how bad is the situation really???????
We are dealing with a situation which is totally outside human experience or even analysis.

What is possible in fantasy may not be probable in reality but fear of the boogeyman creates a healthy fear of the psychopath.

how to respond to keep in the discussion, maybe I shouldn't even try, but here goes: What's fearful to one person may not be to another. For instance, most people here are loving the warmer weather and the lack of snow. Despite the fact that they purposefully (I assume anyway) live in a place where, historically, we have long, cold winters with plenty of snow that begins in December and lasts into April. Sometimes longer. But every day that's above normal is a cause for celebration. And the ski areas are making snow, so what't the big deal? So I have to assume that to most folks in this area losing winter as we have come to know it isn't a terrible loss. Nothing to fear.

Some of the potential consequences of global warming are fearful, however, like rising sea levels, more catastrophic weather events, stuff like that, where we grow food. But then maybe not to some people who won't be alive when it gets that bad and maybe they just can't imagine such a world. Are we inciting fear when we describe the possible changes people will soon start living through?  Should we sugar coat them, say "But you  know, it might not happen and if it does it might not be that bad" and just go on as if everything here today will be here forever?

One can look at climate change through the eyes of a scientist, using charts and graphs and probabilities to perhaps take the edge off the fear. Or one can look at climate change through the eyes of the people and plants and animals and fish and fungi, many of whom won't survive it. This is more fearful because people can identify with other people and especially with charismatic species like polar bears and penguins.

What I so often wonder is why aren't more people pissed off? I know I am. The inaction and indecision and cries for "more studies" and "balanced reports" make me want to scream when every day brings more proof of what's going on and what's causing it. We should be angry. We should be demanding action. And part of the action should be support for (financially) the small-scale solutions mentioned by drx. These are things we can do but most of us don't have the money or the knowledge to do it ourselves. We should be looking into regional energy, using alternatives that work best in each place, and conservation.

It's so hard to get out of the rat race that keeps us connected through necessity to the system that keeps us part of the problem. We have jobs and commitments and bills to pay and it's all so immediate and real that the reality of climate change gets pushed to the sidelines, for most people anyway. By the time enough wake up it could be too late. The White Mountains will no longer be white and snow will exist here only in pictures in our photoalbums. And a part of me knows that it's already too late to prevent that.

Zarkov asks, "Is that [fearful] future real?" It depends on where you live and on what represents "fear" to  you. If you fear the world being consumed by fire, that may not happen. But if you fear a world depleted and hard and very different from the vibrant green world we were born into, then it may very well become real. We need to be clear about this. And then we need to sit down and figure out what exactly that means for how we live and work and relate. But we aren't doing that. If we don't begin these discussions, if we don't plan and strategize and begin implementing the plans, chaos will take over in many places.

Disasters and chaos bring out the best or worst in people. We can be courageous, generous, strong, compassionate and or angry, violent, greedy. People are not always going to respond in the best way possible. Already stress is increasing pretty much everywhere. It feels as though time is speeding up and it's not comfortable.

So there's a lot going on in our lives, the Earth is experiencing stress and changes. It's difficult. And I don't feel I'm being an alarmist here though some may disagree.

After all that, I will repeat that for me the predominant feeling isn't fear, it's sadness. Much will be lost and nothing we can do will change that. I'm too attached, I know, to Earth the way she is today. I can't just breathe and let it go. I believe it's wrong, immoral even, to be responsible for so much destruction for any reason, but especially for economic reasons. I also believe, as I've said elsewhere, that spirit has a role to play and it could be major though there's nothing logical or rational about that statement, I know.

The sadness is a big motivation.  Better than fear will ever be.

It is just too sad to let this destruction continue.  The fear that hurts is the fear to change it.

Afraid to try, afraid to fail, that just didn't cut it during WW2.  Why accept it now?  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

Zarkov writes,
<<
What is possible in fantasy may not be probable in reality but fear of the boogeyman creates a healthy fear of the psychopath.
>>

I have no idea what Zarkov is about.  Z. writes the sort of miserable yet grave blather that Cassandra utters in The Agamemnon.  It is mad, it is unintelligible, and yet it is prophetic, and one feels one ought to pay attention.

There are little penguins, down in Tasmania.  I hope Zarkov is looking after them.  To say nothing of the wombats, and the poor, strangely infected devils.

Chickens are our cousins! So are other sensitive animals! Enough is enough! No more factory farms!

SMLowry, please carry on.  You wrote something of great beauty.  As solemn as is its subject, yet the fact that you could express it as you did encourages me.  

Beauty counts.  Art counts.  Good writing counts.  We need you to keep writing.

I only wish I could write something so fine, of use to you all up there on the Maine/New Hampshire border, at the feet of lordly Mount Washington.

Chickens are our cousins! So are other sensitive animals! Enough is enough! No more factory farms!

>> miserable yet grave blather that Cassandra utters in The Agamemnon.

LOL, that's me.  I am a scientist not a wordsmith.
:)

No one will listen,  You talk of fear, [maybe] terror will be a better word to describe what is coming.

[Maybe] there will be only several years left of complacent living then, it will be every lout for themselves, then [nothing].

It is still "maybe" for general consumption...
I will not elaborate, but I will say this is a very sensible blog.  Thank you.  Unfortunately sensible people are a very very small minority in this world of toxic pollution.

Thank goodness there is at least one sensible blog/forum on the net.

.> There are little penguins, down in Tasmania.  I hope Zarkov is looking after them.  To say nothing of the wombats, and the poor, strangely infected devils.  >>

all is well in Tasmania, except the Tassie devils

They have been poisoned out of their brains from forestry practices (atrazine, stimazine, 1080 etc) that go back decades.  the devils scavenge and are the end of their food chain, and now they are all toxic and cancerous.

Political propaganda will say they are just sick from some strange pathogenic process, but the government here and certain forestry organisations are really guilty of devil-ocide, just as THEY made the Tassie tiger extinct and almost wiped out the indigenous human population.

Really people [rednecks] in general don't give a..

Yep Zark, they are only happy when other beings suffer and die and they get to watch.  Everyone else's pain is their gain.

If their much prayed for  rapture does happen, the earth will be heaven once they are installed wherever their vengefull gaawd raptures them to.

The rest of us left behind will do well without their militant,faithbased,dictatorial, sado/masochistic, neo-culture.  (hehey, just had to use that word again.)

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

In ancient Rome, Empire existed for the sake of empire.  If we lose heart then civilization could collapse from lack of will.

I'm worried we are becoming demoralized.  I see it in me.  I am falling behind interdicting invasive Himalayan Black Berry.  How can I protect indigenous species in a changing climate?

I also feel we are out of sync on a rainbow of emotions. I went from fears years ago, to sadness for dying animal families, to anger that my trees are dying.  Now I am past emotion and have committed a full time effort to fight this enemy.  Others are behind and in front of my emotional evolution.

There may be cause to not worry other working people not fighting carbon on the front lines.   Otherwise, who will interdict invasive species, write history, create art, expand science, treat disease, protect the local environment, grow food, manage traffic, clean the trash,...?  We all can not just stop working because of this global war against warming.  Stay at your day jobs and leave the worry and fear to the experts, they need your support and infrstructure.  (Vote Gore, make contributions, and keep the faith.)

Sunflower!  That rhymes.  A hopeless cause is the only kind of cause worth fighting for.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog