<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Rising price of growing oil alternatives raises demand for oil]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by greenlagirl http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/ Sun, 21 May 2006 11:10:07 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/1 Farm equipment

Can't farm equipment be run on biodiesel? I wonder if -- instead of pushing for more fossil fuels -- the agricultural sector could be convinced to push for more biodiesel friendly farm tech?

http://greenlagirl.com/

]]> Farm equipment

Can't farm equipment be run on biodiesel? I wonder if -- instead of pushing for more fossil fuels -- the agricultural sector could be convinced to push for more biodiesel friendly farm tech?

http://greenlagirl.com/

]]> Comment #2 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/ Sun, 21 May 2006 22:15:50 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/2 Actually lagirl

Agricultural robots charged up with renewable electric power could do it all, organically.

One person at a computer could control 20 robots, when one stopped because of some sort of anomaly, it would issue a warning and would be remotely restarted, and so forth.

I used your comment about pus contaminated milk on the corporatarians at "Hit and Run", thanks.  It is very effective imagery.  Hehey.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Actually lagirl

Agricultural robots charged up with renewable electric power could do it all, organically.

One person at a computer could control 20 robots, when one stopped because of some sort of anomaly, it would issue a warning and would be remotely restarted, and so forth.

I used your comment about pus contaminated milk on the corporatarians at "Hit and Run", thanks.  It is very effective imagery.  Hehey.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #3 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/ Sun, 21 May 2006 22:43:37 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/3 Fuel farming fallacy

Hidden in amongst the other big fallacies related to fuel farming, like biofuel helps the global climate CO 2 balance, is this one.

That fuel farming can reduce the cost of fuel.  

Even if the cost of production were brought down by using renewable energy for growing, processing, and refining, this source can only come up to about 10% of oil based fuel that is used.  That 10%,even were it half the price of gas, won't appreciably effect the overall price soaring with each new war, terror incident, or Katrina like storm.

The pain at the pump will not be alleviated with fuel farming.

Only electric power, at the present equivalent price of 75 cents per gallon, used in a plugin car will do that.  Charged from a gome wind or solar system that copst drops from 75 cents all the wat down to zero once your home energy system pays for itself in energy savings.

Stopping the pain at the pump and from the soaring utility bills.  Many lower income families fall thousands behind in their heating and electric bills during the heating season now.

Were agribizz fuel farming subdsidies, along with corporate welfare for oil, nuclear, and coal, applied to incentives for families to install home based solar and wind, and purchase plugin cars; then the pain would stop.  Until then it will get much, much worse.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Fuel farming fallacy

Hidden in amongst the other big fallacies related to fuel farming, like biofuel helps the global climate CO 2 balance, is this one.

That fuel farming can reduce the cost of fuel.  

Even if the cost of production were brought down by using renewable energy for growing, processing, and refining, this source can only come up to about 10% of oil based fuel that is used.  That 10%,even were it half the price of gas, won't appreciably effect the overall price soaring with each new war, terror incident, or Katrina like storm.

The pain at the pump will not be alleviated with fuel farming.

Only electric power, at the present equivalent price of 75 cents per gallon, used in a plugin car will do that.  Charged from a gome wind or solar system that copst drops from 75 cents all the wat down to zero once your home energy system pays for itself in energy savings.

Stopping the pain at the pump and from the soaring utility bills.  Many lower income families fall thousands behind in their heating and electric bills during the heating season now.

Were agribizz fuel farming subdsidies, along with corporate welfare for oil, nuclear, and coal, applied to incentives for families to install home based solar and wind, and purchase plugin cars; then the pain would stop.  Until then it will get much, much worse.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #4 by cherenkov http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/ Mon, 22 May 2006 06:51:09 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/4 Techno Jiminy Crickets

I notice that repsondents to the article above all suffer from Jiminy Cricket syndrone: the belief that the technology fairy will save us all.

I have news folks: TECHNOLOGY IS NOT ENERGY.

Please spend a little time with your local physics instructor who can explain the simple, but unrelenting, demands of the laws of thermodynamics.

It is precisely this fantasy thinking that will cause the maximum possible pain as we put off dealing with reality and try one techno-junkie fix after another, discarding each in turn as we discover how unbelievably dumb we are being for trying to buck the above mentioned laws.

]]> Techno Jiminy Crickets

I notice that repsondents to the article above all suffer from Jiminy Cricket syndrone: the belief that the technology fairy will save us all.

I have news folks: TECHNOLOGY IS NOT ENERGY.

Please spend a little time with your local physics instructor who can explain the simple, but unrelenting, demands of the laws of thermodynamics.

It is precisely this fantasy thinking that will cause the maximum possible pain as we put off dealing with reality and try one techno-junkie fix after another, discarding each in turn as we discover how unbelievably dumb we are being for trying to buck the above mentioned laws.

]]> Comment #5 by wendy http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/ Thu, 25 May 2006 02:54:13 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/5 farm equipment and biodiesel

Sure, farm equipment can run on biodiesel. I'm sure the farmer would prefer the smell. But I don't know any farmer who could afford the extra cost. Besides which, making the biodiesel consumes more energy than it produces. However, since a large part of the energy cost is in transportation, an on-farm biodiesel production unit might make sense...

]]> farm equipment and biodiesel

Sure, farm equipment can run on biodiesel. I'm sure the farmer would prefer the smell. But I don't know any farmer who could afford the extra cost. Besides which, making the biodiesel consumes more energy than it produces. However, since a large part of the energy cost is in transportation, an on-farm biodiesel production unit might make sense...

]]> Comment #6 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/ Thu, 25 May 2006 03:49:59 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/rising-price-of-growing-oil-alternatives-raises-demand-for-oil/6 To clear up some things guys

Biodiesel does not consume more energy than it produces and it does not smell like popcorn or french fries when combusted. It smells like burnt vegetable oil because that is what it is.

Replacing fossil fuels on the farm with biodiesel grown on the farm would reduce the amount of biodiesel left over that the farmer could sell. In other words, instead of getting 45 gallons an acre, the farmer might get 37. The net result is that you can displace less fossil fuels off the farm and will have same result in the end had you just used fossil fuel for your tractor.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> To clear up some things guys

Biodiesel does not consume more energy than it produces and it does not smell like popcorn or french fries when combusted. It smells like burnt vegetable oil because that is what it is.

Replacing fossil fuels on the farm with biodiesel grown on the farm would reduce the amount of biodiesel left over that the farmer could sell. In other words, instead of getting 45 gallons an acre, the farmer might get 37. The net result is that you can displace less fossil fuels off the farm and will have same result in the end had you just used fossil fuel for your tractor.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]>