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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Indonesian province puts moratorium on rainforest destruction]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Sean Casten</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 04:13:19 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Good news, but be careful</strong></p><p>I've not been to Riau, but have been to other parts &nbsp;of Sumatra and Borneo (Kalimantan) where the orangutans live. &nbsp;We saw lots of evidence of logging well inside the national park boundaries that were supposedly off-limits to loggers, and were told by locals that the local park rangers could always be bought off to let the loggers in for a night or two before heading back out. &nbsp;At which point the forest is pretty well shot. &nbsp;(The soils there are actually pretty lousy, rain-forest notwithstanding, and all the nutrients are trapped by the tree-roots. &nbsp;Cut down the trees and you very quickly get sand and desert.)</p><p>
Bottom line is that the news from the Indonesian gov't is great - let's make sure it translates into equally great actions.</p>
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				<p><strong>Good news, but be careful</strong></p><p>I've not been to Riau, but have been to other parts &nbsp;of Sumatra and Borneo (Kalimantan) where the orangutans live. &nbsp;We saw lots of evidence of logging well inside the national park boundaries that were supposedly off-limits to loggers, and were told by locals that the local park rangers could always be bought off to let the loggers in for a night or two before heading back out. &nbsp;At which point the forest is pretty well shot. &nbsp;(The soils there are actually pretty lousy, rain-forest notwithstanding, and all the nutrients are trapped by the tree-roots. &nbsp;Cut down the trees and you very quickly get sand and desert.)</p><p>
Bottom line is that the news from the Indonesian gov't is great - let's make sure it translates into equally great actions.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Tasermons Partner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 05:55:05 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Question...</strong></p><p>...I agree with <strong>Sean</strong>'s assessment on this. &nbsp;While the concept itself is excellent, how does Indonesia plan to actually enforce the moratorium?</p><p>
Are they diverting any additional manpower, energy, money, or resources, to step up enforcement? &nbsp;Current enforcement is lax, and that was with some logging allowed, so how bad will it be with no logging allowed? &nbsp;Do they have the resources to cover such an area?</p>
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				<p><strong>Question...</strong></p><p>...I agree with <strong>Sean</strong>'s assessment on this. &nbsp;While the concept itself is excellent, how does Indonesia plan to actually enforce the moratorium?</p><p>
Are they diverting any additional manpower, energy, money, or resources, to step up enforcement? &nbsp;Current enforcement is lax, and that was with some logging allowed, so how bad will it be with no logging allowed? &nbsp;Do they have the resources to cover such an area?</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:33:03 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Can't Restore Tropical Rainforests</strong></p><p>Glenn,</p><p>
As the Greenpeace media director, it's important that you know this fact. &nbsp;Tropical rainforests evolved over the past 200 million years and the nutrients were sucked up by the vegetation long ago. &nbsp;(The tropics were not subject to the ice ages, so the plants have been growing constantly, giving the land no respite from their sucking of nutrients from it.) &nbsp;Plants in tropical rainforests grow out of other plants, not out of the soil poor ground. &nbsp;Once the rainforest is cut, it won't grow back.</p>
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				<p><strong>Can't Restore Tropical Rainforests</strong></p><p>Glenn,</p><p>
As the Greenpeace media director, it's important that you know this fact. &nbsp;Tropical rainforests evolved over the past 200 million years and the nutrients were sucked up by the vegetation long ago. &nbsp;(The tropics were not subject to the ice ages, so the plants have been growing constantly, giving the land no respite from their sucking of nutrients from it.) &nbsp;Plants in tropical rainforests grow out of other plants, not out of the soil poor ground. &nbsp;Once the rainforest is cut, it won't grow back.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:34:15 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Correction</strong></p><p>That should read "nutrient poor ground," not "soil poor ground."</p>
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				<p><strong>Correction</strong></p><p>That should read "nutrient poor ground," not "soil poor ground."</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by JoyceMajor</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 06:05:29 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Palm Oil and Orangutans</strong></p><p>I just got back from 5 mo of volunteering in Indonesia with the Sumatran Orangutan Society and the problem with palm oil is complex but urgently in need of a solution if orangutans are to survive the next decade. I disagree that a ban on palm oil is needed as this will affect the workers in the field drastically. We need a consumer campaign to alert people to the number of products that contain palm oil and then a followup campaign to accept only palm oil sustainably grown.Body Shop by the way switched to using Columbian sustainably produced palm oil.<br>
The corruption in Indonesia will also need to be solved before any lasting bans on forest destruction work &amp; who really knows how to do that? Another solution is eco-tourism development as Indonesia has the highest number of endangered species. Currently it only cost $2 to go see semi-wild rehabilitated orangutans in the wild...lots of room for development to support local people. Interested in a list of products that contain palm oil? Got to ran.org.</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Palm Oil and Orangutans</strong></p><p>I just got back from 5 mo of volunteering in Indonesia with the Sumatran Orangutan Society and the problem with palm oil is complex but urgently in need of a solution if orangutans are to survive the next decade. I disagree that a ban on palm oil is needed as this will affect the workers in the field drastically. We need a consumer campaign to alert people to the number of products that contain palm oil and then a followup campaign to accept only palm oil sustainably grown.Body Shop by the way switched to using Columbian sustainably produced palm oil.<br>
The corruption in Indonesia will also need to be solved before any lasting bans on forest destruction work &amp; who really knows how to do that? Another solution is eco-tourism development as Indonesia has the highest number of endangered species. Currently it only cost $2 to go see semi-wild rehabilitated orangutans in the wild...lots of room for development to support local people. Interested in a list of products that contain palm oil? Got to ran.org.</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:36:45 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>What Is Sustainably Produced Palm Oil?</strong></p><p>And if we only buy palm oil from Columbia, the Indonesian workers will still be impacted. &nbsp;Sorry, but if you make your living destroying the Earth, you're not entitled to consideration from those of us trying to protect ecosystems and species. &nbsp;The priority is to protect what little is left of the rainforests, which are more valuable than the entire human race. &nbsp;Impacts to workers are a secondary consideration.</p>
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				<p><strong>What Is Sustainably Produced Palm Oil?</strong></p><p>And if we only buy palm oil from Columbia, the Indonesian workers will still be impacted. &nbsp;Sorry, but if you make your living destroying the Earth, you're not entitled to consideration from those of us trying to protect ecosystems and species. &nbsp;The priority is to protect what little is left of the rainforests, which are more valuable than the entire human race. &nbsp;Impacts to workers are a secondary consideration.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by stevejohnson</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:08:01 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/riau-wow/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>What Is Sustainably Produced Palm Oil?<p>Its very good informative site which deals with the conservative forests. I really appreciated the author to post this article. So many are neglecting the forests and you have recollect all our minds to think the future without the forests. <br>
==============<br>
steve<br>
<a href="http://www.wow-gold-price-list.com" rel="nofollow">WoW Gold</a></br></br></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>What Is Sustainably Produced Palm Oil?<p>Its very good informative site which deals with the conservative forests. I really appreciated the author to post this article. So many are neglecting the forests and you have recollect all our minds to think the future without the forests. <br>
==============<br>
steve<br>
<a href="http://www.wow-gold-price-list.com" rel="nofollow">WoW Gold</a></br></br></br></p></strong></p>
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