<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for The powers that be fear renewable energy, as it threatens their mechanisms of control.]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/renewable-energy-and-the-devolution-of-power/ Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:08:00 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/renewable-energy-and-the-devolution-of-power/1 Someone educate me.

"Renewable energy is about the permanent loss of a major source of control of much of modern humanity."

I am having a hard time coming up with concrete examples of control based on centralized energy production. I am not saying this is not necessarily valid, but I can't think of of any examples that illustrate how central energy production is bad for me.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Someone educate me.

"Renewable energy is about the permanent loss of a major source of control of much of modern humanity."

I am having a hard time coming up with concrete examples of control based on centralized energy production. I am not saying this is not necessarily valid, but I can't think of of any examples that illustrate how central energy production is bad for me.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com

]]> Comment #2 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/renewable-energy-and-the-devolution-of-power/ Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:47:42 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/renewable-energy-and-the-devolution-of-power/2 Yeah, free and fair energy markets.

Well yes Dave, I have had this as a central part of a propsed energy policy for a few years now.

Upgrade and extend the national power grid and have government regulation such that a free and fair market in energy is created.

So that a power company in one state can invest in a wind or solar installation in another area where that power is steadier and more plentiful.

Consumers in Ohio could  use wind power generated on the high wind areas of the great plains, from wind machines owned by their local power company.

It will take a government effort on the scale of the TVA or Hoover Dam project.

A small percentage of the value of the power transported, bought, and sold would go towards paying for the system amd it's operation.

This regulation would take monopolistic manipulators like those energy traders recorded snickering about grandma's energy bill in the California energy crisis right out of the picture.

I'm all for local power generation too, from home scale all the way to factory and oil refining levels!  A big solar furnace powered refinery in the desert southwest would be a great start.

Isn't this a better idea than "The Apollo Energy Project"?

I would also want government to purchase it's energy from these sources in order to get this whole system operating in mass production scale.

The same with biofuel plants and hybrid plugin vehicles.

]]> Yeah, free and fair energy markets.

Well yes Dave, I have had this as a central part of a propsed energy policy for a few years now.

Upgrade and extend the national power grid and have government regulation such that a free and fair market in energy is created.

So that a power company in one state can invest in a wind or solar installation in another area where that power is steadier and more plentiful.

Consumers in Ohio could  use wind power generated on the high wind areas of the great plains, from wind machines owned by their local power company.

It will take a government effort on the scale of the TVA or Hoover Dam project.

A small percentage of the value of the power transported, bought, and sold would go towards paying for the system amd it's operation.

This regulation would take monopolistic manipulators like those energy traders recorded snickering about grandma's energy bill in the California energy crisis right out of the picture.

I'm all for local power generation too, from home scale all the way to factory and oil refining levels!  A big solar furnace powered refinery in the desert southwest would be a great start.

Isn't this a better idea than "The Apollo Energy Project"?

I would also want government to purchase it's energy from these sources in order to get this whole system operating in mass production scale.

The same with biofuel plants and hybrid plugin vehicles.

]]> Comment #3 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/renewable-energy-and-the-devolution-of-power/ Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:54:43 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/renewable-energy-and-the-devolution-of-power/3 A conspiracy? Naah.

A conspiracy needs to be covert, this stuff is out in the open.

Big power is comcentrated in monopoly businesses, energy business hsas been this way since whale oil, and then John D's dtandard oil.

The old trust buster showed how it is, plain and simple.

We need to restore free and fair markets to the realm of energy and the capital that impels energy policy forward.  With real competitive capitalism at work, where each power source truly pays its way, in terms of waste, war, and environmental policy, inovation will rule once more.  Renewable energy inovation.  It will win out given a fair and free market place.

And replace monopoly exploitation and the harm that fossil and nuclear power are doing to civilization, through endless war, and mother earth through pollution.

]]> A conspiracy? Naah.

A conspiracy needs to be covert, this stuff is out in the open.

Big power is comcentrated in monopoly businesses, energy business hsas been this way since whale oil, and then John D's dtandard oil.

The old trust buster showed how it is, plain and simple.

We need to restore free and fair markets to the realm of energy and the capital that impels energy policy forward.  With real competitive capitalism at work, where each power source truly pays its way, in terms of waste, war, and environmental policy, inovation will rule once more.  Renewable energy inovation.  It will win out given a fair and free market place.

And replace monopoly exploitation and the harm that fossil and nuclear power are doing to civilization, through endless war, and mother earth through pollution.

]]> Comment #4 by John Romankiewicz http://www.grist.org/article/renewable-energy-and-the-devolution-of-power/ Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:57:55 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/renewable-energy-and-the-devolution-of-power/4 DestiNY USA

I agree with what you're all saying.

But, what scares me is DestiNY USA, the new super mall they're putting in Syracuse, NY.  It's supposed to be bigger than Mall of America, but it's also supposed to be entirely run on renewable power.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing.  It's normal American development as usual, putting up malls and such.  Is it leading to the decentralized more democratized power that Dave was initially referring to?  I don't think so.  It certainly isn't a paradigm shift at all.  It's trying to keep with the normal pace of American consumerism but introducing renewable energy to power it all.  I'm skeptical if it will work, and if it doesn't then people will lose faith in renewables.

Check out the plans: http://www.destinyusa.com/home/?page=home
Thing's like the friggin Death Star...

]]> DestiNY USA

I agree with what you're all saying.

But, what scares me is DestiNY USA, the new super mall they're putting in Syracuse, NY.  It's supposed to be bigger than Mall of America, but it's also supposed to be entirely run on renewable power.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing.  It's normal American development as usual, putting up malls and such.  Is it leading to the decentralized more democratized power that Dave was initially referring to?  I don't think so.  It certainly isn't a paradigm shift at all.  It's trying to keep with the normal pace of American consumerism but introducing renewable energy to power it all.  I'm skeptical if it will work, and if it doesn't then people will lose faith in renewables.

Check out the plans: http://www.destinyusa.com/home/?page=home
Thing's like the friggin Death Star...

]]> Comment #5 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/renewable-energy-and-the-devolution-of-power/ Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:39:03 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/renewable-energy-and-the-devolution-of-power/5 Mega mall, a new social order?

The mega mall is a corporate entity.  Based on consumption and corporate bottom line.

Corporations seeking a social/political structure that allows their preeminence over government.  How will ocean based colonies govern themselves, or space based colonies?

Will they be corporate entities or will government of, by, and for the people rule them?

If a mega cities can contain civilization for the most part, and they are eco-friendly, then that leaves the rest of the natural world a bit less sprawled upon..that is a plus, but without sane reproductive rights for women worldwide it will not stop the destruction of spaceship earth from over population.

As far as renewables being capable of supporting the mega mall?  Yes, that is technically possible and can be economically profitable, given a successful design and execution.

But government that represents the interests of we the people ought to rule mega cities.  

And consumption equalling happiness is the huge flaw behind these mega consuming projects.

The basic value of quality of life over quantity of consumption and possesions must take over for 99% of humanity or this planet will be used up as exponential population growth and consumption takes over.

]]> Mega mall, a new social order?

The mega mall is a corporate entity.  Based on consumption and corporate bottom line.

Corporations seeking a social/political structure that allows their preeminence over government.  How will ocean based colonies govern themselves, or space based colonies?

Will they be corporate entities or will government of, by, and for the people rule them?

If a mega cities can contain civilization for the most part, and they are eco-friendly, then that leaves the rest of the natural world a bit less sprawled upon..that is a plus, but without sane reproductive rights for women worldwide it will not stop the destruction of spaceship earth from over population.

As far as renewables being capable of supporting the mega mall?  Yes, that is technically possible and can be economically profitable, given a successful design and execution.

But government that represents the interests of we the people ought to rule mega cities.  

And consumption equalling happiness is the huge flaw behind these mega consuming projects.

The basic value of quality of life over quantity of consumption and possesions must take over for 99% of humanity or this planet will be used up as exponential population growth and consumption takes over.

]]>