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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for China kicks off the coal-to-liquids rush]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Alex 77</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:27:42 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Very screwed!</strong></p><p>David, I for one appreciate that you don't sugarcoat such developments, and call them as they are. Perhaps large scale Chinese development of CTL will hasten a climate catastrophe, and that maybe it will even be properly attributed to human-forced climate change. It would seem that only an awesomely destructive climate event will move the masses, and governments, to get serious about not killing ourselves. </p><p>
And remember what Derrick Jensen said: </p><p>
"We're f@#*%d, and life is really, really good."</p>
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				<p><strong>Very screwed!</strong></p><p>David, I for one appreciate that you don't sugarcoat such developments, and call them as they are. Perhaps large scale Chinese development of CTL will hasten a climate catastrophe, and that maybe it will even be properly attributed to human-forced climate change. It would seem that only an awesomely destructive climate event will move the masses, and governments, to get serious about not killing ourselves. </p><p>
And remember what Derrick Jensen said: </p><p>
"We're f@#*%d, and life is really, really good."</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by RHY</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:24:59 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Carbon Neutral CTL?</strong></p><p>If people can claim "carbon neutral" air travel, why can't China claim "carbon neutral" CTL? </p><p>
China has an annual production capacity of 3.1 billion condoms and imports another 1.5 billion.</p><p>
Assuming they could inflate the used ones to an average size of 10 liters, they would have an impressive 46 gigaliter capacity to store the unwanted CO2. </p>
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				<p><strong>Carbon Neutral CTL?</strong></p><p>If people can claim "carbon neutral" air travel, why can't China claim "carbon neutral" CTL? </p><p>
China has an annual production capacity of 3.1 billion condoms and imports another 1.5 billion.</p><p>
Assuming they could inflate the used ones to an average size of 10 liters, they would have an impressive 46 gigaliter capacity to store the unwanted CO2. </p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by bookerly</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:57:59 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Directions</strong></p><p><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;It is not clear how many of these will actually get built, but generally you can expect China to try everything to meet it's growing demands for electricity. &nbsp;And coal is readily available, so trying to find some way to use it is likely.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Note that "the Chinese government has expressed concern about the possible environmental impact of uncontrolled expansion, and has taken steps to limit the number of smaller facilities." &nbsp;So there are likely to be a limited number of these.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Of course, the US continues to use coal and plans to develop such plants, and so do many other countries. &nbsp;India is in the process (according to the article), and South Africa has several (and who knows, may build more).</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;To change the situation, the developed countries need to use their wealth and technological knowhow to not only use green energy themselves, but to spread it to the developing countries at a price they can afford.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Many of the developing countries are making efforts, but financial and technological constraints limit what they can do. &nbsp;We can pick on them or find a way to lift everyone up. &nbsp;The choice, and the ball, are still in the hands of the developed nations.</p><p>
patrick in Beijing</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Directions</strong></p><p><br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;It is not clear how many of these will actually get built, but generally you can expect China to try everything to meet it's growing demands for electricity. &nbsp;And coal is readily available, so trying to find some way to use it is likely.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Note that "the Chinese government has expressed concern about the possible environmental impact of uncontrolled expansion, and has taken steps to limit the number of smaller facilities." &nbsp;So there are likely to be a limited number of these.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Of course, the US continues to use coal and plans to develop such plants, and so do many other countries. &nbsp;India is in the process (according to the article), and South Africa has several (and who knows, may build more).</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;To change the situation, the developed countries need to use their wealth and technological knowhow to not only use green energy themselves, but to spread it to the developing countries at a price they can afford.</p><p>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Many of the developing countries are making efforts, but financial and technological constraints limit what they can do. &nbsp;We can pick on them or find a way to lift everyone up. &nbsp;The choice, and the ball, are still in the hands of the developed nations.</p><p>
patrick in Beijing</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Whiskerfish</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:32:16 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>South African involvement?</strong></p><p>I know Sasol has been looking for business in China.</p><p>
Anyone know if this plant is any kind of co-operative deal w them? </p><p>
The article doesn't say.</p><p>
Cheers</p><p>
Whiskerfish (in Africa)</p>
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				<p><strong>South African involvement?</strong></p><p>I know Sasol has been looking for business in China.</p><p>
Anyone know if this plant is any kind of co-operative deal w them? </p><p>
The article doesn't say.</p><p>
Cheers</p><p>
Whiskerfish (in Africa)</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Pompey Road</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:56:03 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>FutureGen Division</strong></p><p>Pike county Kentucky's and Mingo County WVA's gasification plants are still on the drawing board. Pike County being tied in with the Airforce alternative fuel program. </p><p>
They look like scaled down versions of FutureGen, is this the new direction 15 or 20 smaller plants as opposed to one large one?

<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>FutureGen Division</strong></p><p>Pike county Kentucky's and Mingo County WVA's gasification plants are still on the drawing board. Pike County being tied in with the Airforce alternative fuel program. </p><p>
They look like scaled down versions of FutureGen, is this the new direction 15 or 20 smaller plants as opposed to one large one?

<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:50:16 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>And You Didn't Want China and India...</strong></p><p>Wow...China is doing all the stuff you don't like (just like India) but yet you want the US to sign "international" agreements that don't include that two-fifths of the Earth's population.</p><p>
This seems like good justification for holding out until Asia joins the Green movement.<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>And You Didn't Want China and India...</strong></p><p>Wow...China is doing all the stuff you don't like (just like India) but yet you want the US to sign "international" agreements that don't include that two-fifths of the Earth's population.</p><p>
This seems like good justification for holding out until Asia joins the Green movement.<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by BILL HANNAHAN</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:51:31 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Back to reality.<p><p>
Recycling CO2 with nuclear power is not quite as good as the fantasy land some Grist readers have in their imagination,<p>
<a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/2/20/114336/770" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/2/20/114336/770<p>
&nbsp;but it is far superior to the reality of coal to liquids, tar sand to liquids and oil shale to liquids.

<p></p></p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Back to reality.<p><p>
Recycling CO2 with nuclear power is not quite as good as the fantasy land some Grist readers have in their imagination,<p>
<a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/2/20/114336/770" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/2/20/114336/770<p>
&nbsp;but it is far superior to the reality of coal to liquids, tar sand to liquids and oil shale to liquids.

<p></p></p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by PJD</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:29:52 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/quick-change-more-lightbulbs/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>UCG</strong></p><p>Anyone wish to weigh in with an opinion on Underground Coal Gassification. &nbsp;Could this be the route to cost effective coal use with carbon sequestration?</p>
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				<p><strong>UCG</strong></p><p>Anyone wish to weigh in with an opinion on Underground Coal Gassification. &nbsp;Could this be the route to cost effective coal use with carbon sequestration?</p>
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