<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for The Bush administration falters in a geopolitical chess match]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by atheo http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/ Tue, 02 Sep 2008 09:53:59 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/1 No basis for these lies

Klare's analysis of the Ossetia issue as being energy related leaves only one way to frame the situation: "Putin's Ruthless Gambit".

The problem is that if Putin WAS indeed the aggressor, and if energy "control" was the motivation, Russia would have either destroyed the BTC pipeline during the war or accomplished regime change. The fact that the Russians did neither, puts the lie to the neocon Klare's tale.

]]> No basis for these lies

Klare's analysis of the Ossetia issue as being energy related leaves only one way to frame the situation: "Putin's Ruthless Gambit".

The problem is that if Putin WAS indeed the aggressor, and if energy "control" was the motivation, Russia would have either destroyed the BTC pipeline during the war or accomplished regime change. The fact that the Russians did neither, puts the lie to the neocon Klare's tale.

]]> Comment #2 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/ Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:10:27 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/2 Broken Record


You conspiracists are sounding like a broken record.

Oil...oil...oil.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

]]> Broken Record


You conspiracists are sounding like a broken record.

Oil...oil...oil.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

]]> Comment #3 by GonzoDon http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/ Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:40:48 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/3 Thank God

Thank God that Gov Palin, with her incomparable experience governing a state that borders on Russia, is about to rush to our rescue!!!

]]> Thank God

Thank God that Gov Palin, with her incomparable experience governing a state that borders on Russia, is about to rush to our rescue!!!

]]> Comment #4 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/ Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:20:48 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/4 Bering Straight


Thanks for mentioning that Gonzo Don...with the warming and the energy Alaska is indeed a state of the times.

As far as Russia, all I can say is what part of "get out of Ossetia" do the Russians not understand?

If it was up to me, I would have mowed their army down with a couple of MOABs and then cleaned up the place with a few daisy cutters.  

What are we waiting for?

]]> Bering Straight


Thanks for mentioning that Gonzo Don...with the warming and the energy Alaska is indeed a state of the times.

As far as Russia, all I can say is what part of "get out of Ossetia" do the Russians not understand?

If it was up to me, I would have mowed their army down with a couple of MOABs and then cleaned up the place with a few daisy cutters.  

What are we waiting for?

]]> Comment #5 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/ Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:29:18 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/5 9/11

I like this analysis, Klare is right.  I wonder what he has to say on 9/11?  

It's all about oil..and gas.  Afghanistan was too, when Russia invaded it.  It was and is a pipeline route.

The Saudis sent Bin Laden to secure it.  Bush let his Texas oil cronies threaten the Saudi/Bin Laden surrogate Taliban over it.

The Saudis gave the greenlight for 911, to teach the neocons a lesson.  But that only played into their plans for invasion.

So here we are.  Do we keep playing oil monopoly or get off the oil and gas addiction?

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> 9/11

I like this analysis, Klare is right.  I wonder what he has to say on 9/11?  

It's all about oil..and gas.  Afghanistan was too, when Russia invaded it.  It was and is a pipeline route.

The Saudis sent Bin Laden to secure it.  Bush let his Texas oil cronies threaten the Saudi/Bin Laden surrogate Taliban over it.

The Saudis gave the greenlight for 911, to teach the neocons a lesson.  But that only played into their plans for invasion.

So here we are.  Do we keep playing oil monopoly or get off the oil and gas addiction?

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Comment #6 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/ Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:35:38 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/6 Shocking

Shock and awe, eyyh bailo?

That won't work on Russia, they have nukes.  whoops, guess you forgot that.

Besides, why do we need oil, with the majical hydrogen economy and nuclear batteries?  Hehey.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Shocking

Shock and awe, eyyh bailo?

That won't work on Russia, they have nukes.  whoops, guess you forgot that.

Besides, why do we need oil, with the majical hydrogen economy and nuclear batteries?  Hehey.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Comment #7 by vakibs http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/ Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:04:07 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/7 awesome analysis but incomplete conclusions

Wow.. Jabailo-man comes and saves the world with his daisy cutters ? The mutant gaseous brain with hydrogen synapses is popping up some interesting ideas :)

For normal human beings, it is clear that Georgia, Iran or Iraq is all about geopolitics.

Along with the strait of Hormuz, Georgia is an important checkpoint for US gas supplies. The former has been checkmated by Iran and the later by Russia. Let's thank the chimpleton Bush for his diplomatic success.

The era of geopolitics is running close. Inevitably, we are stepping into a multipolar world. Why is this ? Because economic growth is an exponential function and the whole world is growing rich. As other countries get richer, the US share in the global economic product will fall down. There is nothing that USA can do to stop it. Tough luck !

It can either continue with its stupid game of geopolitics, or get serious about becoming energy independent. Oil and natural gas exports will fall down further and further, because energy-rich countries such as the middle east, venezuela and russia are realizing that energy is the new currency. There is no point exchanging it with something so ephemeral as US dollars. If you want to import energy, you have to exchange a deeper pound of flesh.

Relying on gas imports looks all the more idiotic when you consider that there are a million alternatives - ranging from the good (solar and nuclear) to bad (coal). It is the job of the environmentalist community to see that this transition to energy independence will avoid the bad alternatives.

Let's think in terms of eco-dollars.

]]> awesome analysis but incomplete conclusions

Wow.. Jabailo-man comes and saves the world with his daisy cutters ? The mutant gaseous brain with hydrogen synapses is popping up some interesting ideas :)

For normal human beings, it is clear that Georgia, Iran or Iraq is all about geopolitics.

Along with the strait of Hormuz, Georgia is an important checkpoint for US gas supplies. The former has been checkmated by Iran and the later by Russia. Let's thank the chimpleton Bush for his diplomatic success.

The era of geopolitics is running close. Inevitably, we are stepping into a multipolar world. Why is this ? Because economic growth is an exponential function and the whole world is growing rich. As other countries get richer, the US share in the global economic product will fall down. There is nothing that USA can do to stop it. Tough luck !

It can either continue with its stupid game of geopolitics, or get serious about becoming energy independent. Oil and natural gas exports will fall down further and further, because energy-rich countries such as the middle east, venezuela and russia are realizing that energy is the new currency. There is no point exchanging it with something so ephemeral as US dollars. If you want to import energy, you have to exchange a deeper pound of flesh.

Relying on gas imports looks all the more idiotic when you consider that there are a million alternatives - ranging from the good (solar and nuclear) to bad (coal). It is the job of the environmentalist community to see that this transition to energy independence will avoid the bad alternatives.

Let's think in terms of eco-dollars.

]]> Comment #8 by atheo http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/ Wed, 03 Sep 2008 09:45:48 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/8 Why I don't like those kind of articles?


Because they are not honest with you or me. On my computer I have - like you - a command key and an 'F'. (Apple) The 'F' stands for 'find'. And it's always the same with gatekeepers like Klare, Tom Engelhardt, Zinn and all the other 'Chomskys of this world': they can write and write about the effects of the present usury system which makes 99% of humanity suffer. But they never explain about the origins, the financiers of all trouble, the ;false flags' and of the illegal invasions for power and profit. So, if I with the 'F' for instance look for the word 'Israel' in the article, I don't find it in this text. And that's not honest, it's gatekeeping.
Klare writes for instance: "Clinton made a secondary decision - to convert the new Georgian army into a military proxy of the United States, equipped and trained by the Department of Defense." That's not reality again, because in Israel they were mighty proud of the by them given training too of the Georgian military and special forces, and their investments.
Gatekeeper Klare also writes: "Boris Yeltsin, was far too preoccupied with domestic troubles." Klare knows very well that Boris Yeltsin for years also was kept permanently drunk by the robbing thieves around him, by the BBC portrayed as Russia's 'business oligarchs' - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/ytrsks
And Klare also knows very well that Yukos, the $40 billion giant was bought for about $300 million by the oligarchs, thus looting the entire Russian economy for the benefit of a handful of Israeli citizens living in Russia. When Yukos' chairman, Mikhail Khodorkovsky was arrested, the American capitalist establishment went orbital. Forgetting the 1999 New York Times exposé on massive money laundering and fraud from Yukos, the conservative establishment began to lionize oligarchy and, specifically, Khodorkovsky." [end quote from the late Vialls] - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/u5h4
To whip up the frenzy, not only the French state information agency 'Agence France Presse' (AFP - Sunday, 02 November 2003) sent out the information worldwide: also a London newspaper, the Sunday Times, one of Rupert Murdoch's pro-zionist propaganda rags, claimed that ''Control of Khodorkovsky's shares in Yukos had passed to a member of the Rothschild banking family under a deal which they hammered out prior to the Russian oil baron's arrest. Voting rights to the shares passed to Lord Jacob Rothschild, 67, under a "previously unknown arrangement" designed to take effect in the event that Khodorkovsky could not longer "act as a beneficiary" of the shares,'' the Sunday Times said. Khodorkovsky was said by the paper to have made the arrangement with Rothschild when he realised he was facing arrest. ''Rothschild now controls the voting rights on a stake in Yukos worth almost eight billion pounds,'' the newspaper said in a dispatch from Moscow." (end quote). - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/6opn3f
But the Rothschild c.s. plan to hijack the biggest part of the russian energy industry: "Looting the entire Russian economy for the benefit of a handful of Israeli citizens living in Russia," did not work. So far the multinational bankers and their criminal cartel have failed. - BBC about Russia's business oligarchs - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/ytrsks
And the 'jackals' - as Putin called them - are again at it, and with full financial force too - because, according to their sick and hegemonic AIPAC/PNAC plan, they still want to control the Russian energy too. At whatever cost to humanity. - 'Russia vs Robbers' - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/6f6roo
Klare in this piece is further shifting the blame to "the administration's partner in Tblisi, President Mikheil Saakashvili," who according to Klare: "sought to pursue a megalomaniacal fantasy of recapturing the breakaway regions of Abhkazia and South Ossetia with American help." Again Klare doesn't deliver the facts: it wasn't only the financing, arming and training: the 'green light' for the illegal invasion by Georgia of South Ossetia was given by Washington, through London and Tel Aviv. Saakashvili wouldn't dare to do something like that on his own. Even if the people killed, between 1500 and two thousand, never count in the eyes of the warlords.
And last but not least: "Together, they walked into a trap cleverly set by Putin." Klare writes. That's not true either: both sides, Russia as well as the US/UK/NATO cartel's war machine had info by satellites too. And not a wheelbarrow could roll, without it being seen, filmed and sniffed at, especially troops amassing in a crisis border zone. It was a power match, and the US/UK's war machine had to give in to Russia. But again at a huge cost to humanity.
The dire warnings and complaints about the totalitarian course of the US/UK/Israeli cartel which - at that time - Russian President Vladimir Putin had in his speech at the Munich Conference on Security Policy, tells one exactly which world one lives in. - February 11, 2007, Munich - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/2gnczf
That's among other things gatekeeper Klare should have written, based on the eternal question: who profits?
And it's certainly not the abused and poor people in that area. Nor you or me.
Henk Ruyssenaars












]]> Why I don't like those kind of articles?


Because they are not honest with you or me. On my computer I have - like you - a command key and an 'F'. (Apple) The 'F' stands for 'find'. And it's always the same with gatekeepers like Klare, Tom Engelhardt, Zinn and all the other 'Chomskys of this world': they can write and write about the effects of the present usury system which makes 99% of humanity suffer. But they never explain about the origins, the financiers of all trouble, the ;false flags' and of the illegal invasions for power and profit. So, if I with the 'F' for instance look for the word 'Israel' in the article, I don't find it in this text. And that's not honest, it's gatekeeping.
Klare writes for instance: "Clinton made a secondary decision - to convert the new Georgian army into a military proxy of the United States, equipped and trained by the Department of Defense." That's not reality again, because in Israel they were mighty proud of the by them given training too of the Georgian military and special forces, and their investments.
Gatekeeper Klare also writes: "Boris Yeltsin, was far too preoccupied with domestic troubles." Klare knows very well that Boris Yeltsin for years also was kept permanently drunk by the robbing thieves around him, by the BBC portrayed as Russia's 'business oligarchs' - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/ytrsks
And Klare also knows very well that Yukos, the $40 billion giant was bought for about $300 million by the oligarchs, thus looting the entire Russian economy for the benefit of a handful of Israeli citizens living in Russia. When Yukos' chairman, Mikhail Khodorkovsky was arrested, the American capitalist establishment went orbital. Forgetting the 1999 New York Times exposé on massive money laundering and fraud from Yukos, the conservative establishment began to lionize oligarchy and, specifically, Khodorkovsky." [end quote from the late Vialls] - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/u5h4
To whip up the frenzy, not only the French state information agency 'Agence France Presse' (AFP - Sunday, 02 November 2003) sent out the information worldwide: also a London newspaper, the Sunday Times, one of Rupert Murdoch's pro-zionist propaganda rags, claimed that ''Control of Khodorkovsky's shares in Yukos had passed to a member of the Rothschild banking family under a deal which they hammered out prior to the Russian oil baron's arrest. Voting rights to the shares passed to Lord Jacob Rothschild, 67, under a "previously unknown arrangement" designed to take effect in the event that Khodorkovsky could not longer "act as a beneficiary" of the shares,'' the Sunday Times said. Khodorkovsky was said by the paper to have made the arrangement with Rothschild when he realised he was facing arrest. ''Rothschild now controls the voting rights on a stake in Yukos worth almost eight billion pounds,'' the newspaper said in a dispatch from Moscow." (end quote). - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/6opn3f
But the Rothschild c.s. plan to hijack the biggest part of the russian energy industry: "Looting the entire Russian economy for the benefit of a handful of Israeli citizens living in Russia," did not work. So far the multinational bankers and their criminal cartel have failed. - BBC about Russia's business oligarchs - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/ytrsks
And the 'jackals' - as Putin called them - are again at it, and with full financial force too - because, according to their sick and hegemonic AIPAC/PNAC plan, they still want to control the Russian energy too. At whatever cost to humanity. - 'Russia vs Robbers' - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/6f6roo
Klare in this piece is further shifting the blame to "the administration's partner in Tblisi, President Mikheil Saakashvili," who according to Klare: "sought to pursue a megalomaniacal fantasy of recapturing the breakaway regions of Abhkazia and South Ossetia with American help." Again Klare doesn't deliver the facts: it wasn't only the financing, arming and training: the 'green light' for the illegal invasion by Georgia of South Ossetia was given by Washington, through London and Tel Aviv. Saakashvili wouldn't dare to do something like that on his own. Even if the people killed, between 1500 and two thousand, never count in the eyes of the warlords.
And last but not least: "Together, they walked into a trap cleverly set by Putin." Klare writes. That's not true either: both sides, Russia as well as the US/UK/NATO cartel's war machine had info by satellites too. And not a wheelbarrow could roll, without it being seen, filmed and sniffed at, especially troops amassing in a crisis border zone. It was a power match, and the US/UK's war machine had to give in to Russia. But again at a huge cost to humanity.
The dire warnings and complaints about the totalitarian course of the US/UK/Israeli cartel which - at that time - Russian President Vladimir Putin had in his speech at the Munich Conference on Security Policy, tells one exactly which world one lives in. - February 11, 2007, Munich - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/2gnczf
That's among other things gatekeeper Klare should have written, based on the eternal question: who profits?
And it's certainly not the abused and poor people in that area. Nor you or me.
Henk Ruyssenaars












]]> Comment #9 by Wolverine http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/ Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:09:40 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/putins-ruthless-gambit/9 Don't Forget, Dr. X

It was the U.S., in the person of Zbigniew Brzezinski, that goaded the Soviet Union to start a war in Afghanistan.  The U.S. is as far from being innocent in world politics as it gets.  It and the Soviet Union were twin scourges on the planet, and now the U.S. is the absolute power that's absolutely corrupt.

One thing wrong with this analysis is that Michael Klare minimizes the fact that this stuff is taking place on Russia's southern border.  Imagine if Russia were doing in Mexico the type of stuff the U.S. did and is still doing in Georgia.

]]> Don't Forget, Dr. X

It was the U.S., in the person of Zbigniew Brzezinski, that goaded the Soviet Union to start a war in Afghanistan.  The U.S. is as far from being innocent in world politics as it gets.  It and the Soviet Union were twin scourges on the planet, and now the U.S. is the absolute power that's absolutely corrupt.

One thing wrong with this analysis is that Michael Klare minimizes the fact that this stuff is taking place on Russia's southern border.  Imagine if Russia were doing in Mexico the type of stuff the U.S. did and is still doing in Georgia.

]]>