<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Cut defense spending in favor of clean-energy investing]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/pssst-its-ok-to-cut-the-defense-budget/ Fri, 14 Nov 2008 03:55:07 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/pssst-its-ok-to-cut-the-defense-budget/1 Bear Market


Sure, go ahead...then when Ivan rolls through Poland you can thank yourselves.

]]> Bear Market


Sure, go ahead...then when Ivan rolls through Poland you can thank yourselves.

]]> Comment #2 by Golden Toad http://www.grist.org/article/pssst-its-ok-to-cut-the-defense-budget/ Fri, 14 Nov 2008 04:05:31 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/pssst-its-ok-to-cut-the-defense-budget/2 Right on!

Reducing military spending frees up more capital for public investment in much-needed green infrastructure projects AND reduces the power of the military-industrial-contractor complex that has driven us into so many unnecessary and unjust wars.  It also could help ease the effect that the bailout and stimuluses (stimuli?) will have in terms of national debt.  And as others have said here, military spending creates fewer jobs than other avenues for public investment, especially public transit (http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/3/11/155421/333).

Barney Frank's been talking about cutting military spending in a fashion very similar to the National Priorities Project: http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID= ...
It remains to be seen how much traction these ideas will gain in Congress.  I don't think Obama has said much about reducing military spending or cracking down on corrupt contractors, but at least he will get us out of Iraq, which should free up a lot of taxpayer dollars (unless they're simply diverted to a "surge" in Afghanistan).

]]> Right on!

Reducing military spending frees up more capital for public investment in much-needed green infrastructure projects AND reduces the power of the military-industrial-contractor complex that has driven us into so many unnecessary and unjust wars.  It also could help ease the effect that the bailout and stimuluses (stimuli?) will have in terms of national debt.  And as others have said here, military spending creates fewer jobs than other avenues for public investment, especially public transit (http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/3/11/155421/333).

Barney Frank's been talking about cutting military spending in a fashion very similar to the National Priorities Project: http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID= ...
It remains to be seen how much traction these ideas will gain in Congress.  I don't think Obama has said much about reducing military spending or cracking down on corrupt contractors, but at least he will get us out of Iraq, which should free up a lot of taxpayer dollars (unless they're simply diverted to a "surge" in Afghanistan).

]]> Comment #3 by JohnH http://www.grist.org/article/pssst-its-ok-to-cut-the-defense-budget/ Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:10:28 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/pssst-its-ok-to-cut-the-defense-budget/3 We should speak up about this now...

It's long past time to spend the tax dollars we now pour down the military industrial complex rathole, but better late than never.  Converting it to a public works infrastructure would at least assure that the output would be something we all could use (a smart grid, solar arrays, wind farms, a transportation infrastructure that can run on electricity, etc.).

I do wonder if even now we have the political will to do it.  Many people owe their jobs to the complex but I believe many of them would gladly trade those jobs for others like the above.  The status quo is clearly a death spiral for US manufacturing, in which the only industry left will be the weapons industry.  

And then there are the jabailos of the world who refuse to see the possibility that Ivan's recent cold war-like threats might be a reaction to our behavior in placing cold war relic missile defense systems in eastern Europe.  Maybe we should put our sword down first, and see how the Russians react to that.

]]> We should speak up about this now...

It's long past time to spend the tax dollars we now pour down the military industrial complex rathole, but better late than never.  Converting it to a public works infrastructure would at least assure that the output would be something we all could use (a smart grid, solar arrays, wind farms, a transportation infrastructure that can run on electricity, etc.).

I do wonder if even now we have the political will to do it.  Many people owe their jobs to the complex but I believe many of them would gladly trade those jobs for others like the above.  The status quo is clearly a death spiral for US manufacturing, in which the only industry left will be the weapons industry.  

And then there are the jabailos of the world who refuse to see the possibility that Ivan's recent cold war-like threats might be a reaction to our behavior in placing cold war relic missile defense systems in eastern Europe.  Maybe we should put our sword down first, and see how the Russians react to that.

]]> Comment #4 by Wolverine http://www.grist.org/article/pssst-its-ok-to-cut-the-defense-budget/ Sun, 16 Nov 2008 08:25:43 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/pssst-its-ok-to-cut-the-defense-budget/4 America

Unfortunately, the U.S. is made up of far more people like Bailo on this issue than people like us.  The U.S. spends far more than any other country on its military and has military bases all over the world.  But Americans are so brainwashed that they think that this is OK, or even good.

The first thing that should be done is to close all the foreign military bases, where the U.S. has no business being.  Next would be to eliminate the most harmful aspects of the military, such as attacking marine mammals with extremely loud noises and eliminating nuclear and chemical weapons.

]]> America

Unfortunately, the U.S. is made up of far more people like Bailo on this issue than people like us.  The U.S. spends far more than any other country on its military and has military bases all over the world.  But Americans are so brainwashed that they think that this is OK, or even good.

The first thing that should be done is to close all the foreign military bases, where the U.S. has no business being.  Next would be to eliminate the most harmful aspects of the military, such as attacking marine mammals with extremely loud noises and eliminating nuclear and chemical weapons.

]]> Comment #5 by Jon Rynn http://www.grist.org/article/pssst-its-ok-to-cut-the-defense-budget/ Mon, 17 Nov 2008 05:51:52 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/pssst-its-ok-to-cut-the-defense-budget/5 On the other hand....

Matt Yglesias posted this on what he sees as an effort to get more money for the military, although he makes arguments similar to mine as to why that's a bad idea.

Wolverine, there are all kinds of things that the military should be cut back on.  One other random one, apparently they actually help the illegal whalers that Watson and others try to track.  They should be helping the whale defenders, not vice versa.

And to address a point made by JohnH, the late Professor Seymour Melman championed an idea called economic conversion, the basic idea being that every military factory would have to have a 2-year plan about how to convert that factory to civilian production, the thought being that the workers in those plants would thereby have some protection against unemployment caused by cutting the military budget.  Now, many unions see military production as one of their last bastions, so they don't get very excited about the idea of cutting the military budget, even with conversion; and when a Speaker of the House, Jim Wright, wanted to make economic conversion  his top priority, whaddaya know, the representative from Lockheed, Newt Gingrich, manufactured an ethics crisis that got Wright kicked out of Congress.  

So the odds aren't very good, I admit: but we need to at least put the idea into the mainstream of discussable topices, which it doesn't seem to be right now.

]]> On the other hand....

Matt Yglesias posted this on what he sees as an effort to get more money for the military, although he makes arguments similar to mine as to why that's a bad idea.

Wolverine, there are all kinds of things that the military should be cut back on.  One other random one, apparently they actually help the illegal whalers that Watson and others try to track.  They should be helping the whale defenders, not vice versa.

And to address a point made by JohnH, the late Professor Seymour Melman championed an idea called economic conversion, the basic idea being that every military factory would have to have a 2-year plan about how to convert that factory to civilian production, the thought being that the workers in those plants would thereby have some protection against unemployment caused by cutting the military budget.  Now, many unions see military production as one of their last bastions, so they don't get very excited about the idea of cutting the military budget, even with conversion; and when a Speaker of the House, Jim Wright, wanted to make economic conversion  his top priority, whaddaya know, the representative from Lockheed, Newt Gingrich, manufactured an ethics crisis that got Wright kicked out of Congress.  

So the odds aren't very good, I admit: but we need to at least put the idea into the mainstream of discussable topices, which it doesn't seem to be right now.

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