<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Protecting the ethanol industry]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Tom Philpott http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/ Thu, 11 May 2006 05:11:16 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/1 Oh dear God

Coal-fired ethanol is such a farce that I've never gotten around to writing about it, figuring it would surely go away. Guess not!

]]> Oh dear God

Coal-fired ethanol is such a farce that I've never gotten around to writing about it, figuring it would surely go away. Guess not!

]]> Comment #2 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/ Thu, 11 May 2006 05:19:07 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/2 I have always felt the same way about corn based

ethanol, guess not. Jeez, there are over twenty zero emissions car models out there. Burning ethanol in them sure won't lower air pollution. In addition, super clean petroleum fuels are on the way. So, once the argument that ethanol is cleaner disappears, what argument is left to use it? We sure can't grow enough corn to make us oil independent, and importing it makes us dependent on foreign oil again.

It is hard to argue that corn, which uses billions of tons of fertilizer, pesticides and water can be called a renewable resource (is being produced sustainably), and finally, the last paper in Science magazine supporting corn based ethanol admits that it doesn't reduce CO2 emissions in its lifecycle because of all of the fossil fuels used to grow and process it.

I also can't imagine politicians from states with a multibillion dollar infrastructure built to make ethanol from corn are going to vote for anything that will dismantle it (like funding for cellulosic technology).

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com


]]> I have always felt the same way about corn based

ethanol, guess not. Jeez, there are over twenty zero emissions car models out there. Burning ethanol in them sure won't lower air pollution. In addition, super clean petroleum fuels are on the way. So, once the argument that ethanol is cleaner disappears, what argument is left to use it? We sure can't grow enough corn to make us oil independent, and importing it makes us dependent on foreign oil again.

It is hard to argue that corn, which uses billions of tons of fertilizer, pesticides and water can be called a renewable resource (is being produced sustainably), and finally, the last paper in Science magazine supporting corn based ethanol admits that it doesn't reduce CO2 emissions in its lifecycle because of all of the fossil fuels used to grow and process it.

I also can't imagine politicians from states with a multibillion dollar infrastructure built to make ethanol from corn are going to vote for anything that will dismantle it (like funding for cellulosic technology).

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com


]]> Comment #3 by bryankwalton http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/ Thu, 11 May 2006 05:20:35 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/3 Hmmm . . .

I know how I feel about loosening the clean-air regulations on coal-fired ethanol plants -- I'm strongly against it.  I totally agree with your points there David.

However, regarding removing the tariff on ethanol imports, I don't know how I feel about that.  On the one hand, I don't really care about protecting large  corn interests here.  If ethanol can be maid more efficiently with other crops like sugarcane, I'm all for it.  

However, on the other hand, I agree with what I've read on the Cut Oil Imports blog:

So for 2 or 3 cents, these geniuses would critically wound the US ethanol industry and leave us dependent on Brazil for ethanol. Is this any different than being dependent on the Middle East for oil? We need to be able to create our own energy sources in order to avoid being dependent on any outside source.

So I don't know where I stand on this second issue.


]]> Hmmm . . .

I know how I feel about loosening the clean-air regulations on coal-fired ethanol plants -- I'm strongly against it.  I totally agree with your points there David.

However, regarding removing the tariff on ethanol imports, I don't know how I feel about that.  On the one hand, I don't really care about protecting large  corn interests here.  If ethanol can be maid more efficiently with other crops like sugarcane, I'm all for it.  

However, on the other hand, I agree with what I've read on the Cut Oil Imports blog:

So for 2 or 3 cents, these geniuses would critically wound the US ethanol industry and leave us dependent on Brazil for ethanol. Is this any different than being dependent on the Middle East for oil? We need to be able to create our own energy sources in order to avoid being dependent on any outside source.

So I don't know where I stand on this second issue.


]]> Comment #4 by David Roberts http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/ Thu, 11 May 2006 05:51:32 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/4 Bryan,

The fact that ethanol can be made more cheaply elsewhere and imported perhaps ought to be an indication that it's not a great choice as a clean, domestic fuel.

Sunlight and wind are, as far as I understand, equally cheap here and in Brazil.

www.grist.org

]]> Bryan,

The fact that ethanol can be made more cheaply elsewhere and imported perhaps ought to be an indication that it's not a great choice as a clean, domestic fuel.

Sunlight and wind are, as far as I understand, equally cheap here and in Brazil.

www.grist.org

]]> Comment #5 by bryankwalton http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/ Thu, 11 May 2006 06:29:38 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/5 David,

I agree with you.  At least as it currently stands, ethanol can be made more cheaply elsewhere, and that says alot about it. But to muddy the water a bit, you could say the same thing about petroleum based fuels.  They could be found, pumped, refined, etc. much more cheaply elsewhere also.  In fact, that is also the case with most industries in today's world.    Most everything is going to cost more to make within our borders -- due to many reasons -- environmental controls, labor costs, etc. All I'm saying is that if we want anything to be from domestic sources, it may cost us a little bit.

]]> David,

I agree with you.  At least as it currently stands, ethanol can be made more cheaply elsewhere, and that says alot about it. But to muddy the water a bit, you could say the same thing about petroleum based fuels.  They could be found, pumped, refined, etc. much more cheaply elsewhere also.  In fact, that is also the case with most industries in today's world.    Most everything is going to cost more to make within our borders -- due to many reasons -- environmental controls, labor costs, etc. All I'm saying is that if we want anything to be from domestic sources, it may cost us a little bit.

]]> Comment #6 by miz cha http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/ Thu, 11 May 2006 06:36:37 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/6 ethanol's greenhouse gas ledger

If you ship ethanol from brazil you will be using fossi-fuel to do it.  That will undoubtedly wipe out any greenhouse gas benefits, which are borderline using current production methods

(the science article said ethanol only yielded about 18 percent greenhouse gas savings compared to fossil fuel, a number easily pushed in one direction or by considering other factors).

]]> ethanol's greenhouse gas ledger

If you ship ethanol from brazil you will be using fossi-fuel to do it.  That will undoubtedly wipe out any greenhouse gas benefits, which are borderline using current production methods

(the science article said ethanol only yielded about 18 percent greenhouse gas savings compared to fossil fuel, a number easily pushed in one direction or by considering other factors).

]]> Comment #7 by bookerly http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/ Thu, 11 May 2006 08:08:21 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/protecting-the-ethanol-industry/7 High Tariffs


   Discouraging other countries from destroying their forests so we can drive our SUVS to yet one more mall seems to me a good idea.

   Corn based ethanol is a prime example of a "distractor", an idea that corporate America will sell to try to convince people that something is happening to make progress dealing with global warming, while in fact, nothing is.

patrick

]]> High Tariffs


   Discouraging other countries from destroying their forests so we can drive our SUVS to yet one more mall seems to me a good idea.

   Corn based ethanol is a prime example of a "distractor", an idea that corporate America will sell to try to convince people that something is happening to make progress dealing with global warming, while in fact, nothing is.

patrick

]]>