<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Plug-in sports car to hit showrooms in 2010]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by theBike45 http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/ Sun, 11 Nov 2007 08:08:44 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/1 A practical and improved Tesla

 Where the article gets the 100 MPG figure from si a mystery : plug-in MPG is not a definable
characteristic - the electric driving range and total driving range and MPG during range extended driving are the relevant fuel facts.
  This Fisker makes the Tesla not only look sick, but overly expensive and impractical to boot.
According to statisitcs, a 50 mile electric driving range typically avoids 90% of gasoline
usage. IF, as GM is planning, there will be receptacles available at shopping malls, office buildings, public parking lots, and grocery stores, that 50 mile range can easily extend to
100 miles per day without needing any gasoline,
resulting in over 95% avoidance of gasoline.
50 miles per day is 18,500 miles of gasoline-free driving per year.  








]]> A practical and improved Tesla

 Where the article gets the 100 MPG figure from si a mystery : plug-in MPG is not a definable
characteristic - the electric driving range and total driving range and MPG during range extended driving are the relevant fuel facts.
  This Fisker makes the Tesla not only look sick, but overly expensive and impractical to boot.
According to statisitcs, a 50 mile electric driving range typically avoids 90% of gasoline
usage. IF, as GM is planning, there will be receptacles available at shopping malls, office buildings, public parking lots, and grocery stores, that 50 mile range can easily extend to
100 miles per day without needing any gasoline,
resulting in over 95% avoidance of gasoline.
50 miles per day is 18,500 miles of gasoline-free driving per year.  








]]> Comment #2 by Colin Wright http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/ Sun, 11 Nov 2007 08:26:36 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/2 Woe the pedestrian

After viewing BioD's post on fast electric motorcycles, I fear for the pedestrian in this future world of $100,000 sports cars.

Saner in my view to promote mass transit, compact development and small neighborhood electric vehicles limited to 30 mph.

]]> Woe the pedestrian

After viewing BioD's post on fast electric motorcycles, I fear for the pedestrian in this future world of $100,000 sports cars.

Saner in my view to promote mass transit, compact development and small neighborhood electric vehicles limited to 30 mph.

]]> Comment #3 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/ Sun, 11 Nov 2007 14:40:47 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/3 Baby, Let's Blow This Joint...Uh...Soon...

Hey, doll.   You and me should get away from here to some place more...um...private.   You know, like my penthouse powered by solar cells, and plenty of low light CF bulbs.

Yeah, um...well, have another drink...or smoke or something...my plug in roadster should be ready...in about 9 hours (picture in your mind the appropriate MAD magazine drawing of girl going "Yerp" as guy in turtleneck and tweed jacket breaks news).

http://www.pluginamerica.com/faq.shtml#PHEV

Q: How long does it take to fully charge a plug-in hybrid or electric car?

A: It would depend on the amperage of the charging system. From an ordinary 120V socket, you would need overnight to charge a battery EV fully. With a fast charger, you could fully charge in 5-10 minutes. A plug-in hybrid could fully charge in 6-9 hours from an ordinary outlet.

John Bailo
Sutext:

]]> Baby, Let's Blow This Joint...Uh...Soon...

Hey, doll.   You and me should get away from here to some place more...um...private.   You know, like my penthouse powered by solar cells, and plenty of low light CF bulbs.

Yeah, um...well, have another drink...or smoke or something...my plug in roadster should be ready...in about 9 hours (picture in your mind the appropriate MAD magazine drawing of girl going "Yerp" as guy in turtleneck and tweed jacket breaks news).

http://www.pluginamerica.com/faq.shtml#PHEV

Q: How long does it take to fully charge a plug-in hybrid or electric car?

A: It would depend on the amperage of the charging system. From an ordinary 120V socket, you would need overnight to charge a battery EV fully. With a fast charger, you could fully charge in 5-10 minutes. A plug-in hybrid could fully charge in 6-9 hours from an ordinary outlet.

John Bailo
Sutext:

]]> Comment #4 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/ Sun, 11 Nov 2007 17:38:11 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/4 Audi

http://jalopnik.com/cars/tokyo-auto-show/tokyo-auto-show- ...

This Audi plugin hybrid mentioned in the article has a gas engine for the front wheel drive and an electric motor for rear wheel drive.  Just the conversion idea that we discussed here awhile back in one of bio-d's articles I think.

Any front wheel drive car could have an electric motor/battery system adapted to the rear wheels.  It's a simpler system for conversion of an internal combustion vehicle.  

The tEsla could have it's battery made smaller and add a backup generator so it could compete in the plugin hybrid market.  Just as the EV-1 could have been saved by a similar conversion to hybrid.  It extends the range and allows a visit to a gas station, instead of a lengthy recharge, to get going again on longer trips.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Audi

http://jalopnik.com/cars/tokyo-auto-show/tokyo-auto-show- ...

This Audi plugin hybrid mentioned in the article has a gas engine for the front wheel drive and an electric motor for rear wheel drive.  Just the conversion idea that we discussed here awhile back in one of bio-d's articles I think.

Any front wheel drive car could have an electric motor/battery system adapted to the rear wheels.  It's a simpler system for conversion of an internal combustion vehicle.  

The tEsla could have it's battery made smaller and add a backup generator so it could compete in the plugin hybrid market.  Just as the EV-1 could have been saved by a similar conversion to hybrid.  It extends the range and allows a visit to a gas station, instead of a lengthy recharge, to get going again on longer trips.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #5 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/ Sun, 11 Nov 2007 17:51:35 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/5 Manufacturing

Actually the Audi design would allow any maker of a front wheel drive vehicle to simply add on an optional rear battery/electric drive.  It would work even better for all wheel drives.

Mass production of standard motor/battery units would then be adapted to various models and makes.  One or two large manufacturers could supply all the auto makers with the battery electric units.

It would also give every converted front wheel drive all wheel drive.  Combining the SUV like traction feature with the plugin feature.  Saving gas in the worst gas guzzlers.  And wouldn't all those minivan moms want all wheel drive for safety too?  Yep.

This is a happy marketing coincidence.  Could Toyota's complex parallel/series hybrid system yield to a simple parallel drive system like the Audi has?  I think it might.

Then as batteries become faster charging and have more capacity with less weight, the gas engine could be made smaller and electric motor made more powerful in future models.  For less and less gasoline used and more and more, hopefully renewable kwh.

Eventually the gas engine could yield to a solid oxide fuel cell/turbine that is 60% efficient and runs on various fuels.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Manufacturing

Actually the Audi design would allow any maker of a front wheel drive vehicle to simply add on an optional rear battery/electric drive.  It would work even better for all wheel drives.

Mass production of standard motor/battery units would then be adapted to various models and makes.  One or two large manufacturers could supply all the auto makers with the battery electric units.

It would also give every converted front wheel drive all wheel drive.  Combining the SUV like traction feature with the plugin feature.  Saving gas in the worst gas guzzlers.  And wouldn't all those minivan moms want all wheel drive for safety too?  Yep.

This is a happy marketing coincidence.  Could Toyota's complex parallel/series hybrid system yield to a simple parallel drive system like the Audi has?  I think it might.

Then as batteries become faster charging and have more capacity with less weight, the gas engine could be made smaller and electric motor made more powerful in future models.  For less and less gasoline used and more and more, hopefully renewable kwh.

Eventually the gas engine could yield to a solid oxide fuel cell/turbine that is 60% efficient and runs on various fuels.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #6 by Nucbuddy http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/ Sun, 11 Nov 2007 22:06:55 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/6 There was an EV-1 series hybrid

Amazingdrx wrote: the EV-1 could have been saved by a similar conversion to hybrid.  It extends the range and allows a visit to a gas station

It certainly did. The EV-1 series-hybrid got:

fuel economy of 60 to 100 mpg [...] in hybrid mode, [allowing] for a highway range of more than 390 miles

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1#EV1_series_hybrid

]]> There was an EV-1 series hybrid

Amazingdrx wrote: the EV-1 could have been saved by a similar conversion to hybrid.  It extends the range and allows a visit to a gas station

It certainly did. The EV-1 series-hybrid got:

fuel economy of 60 to 100 mpg [...] in hybrid mode, [allowing] for a highway range of more than 390 miles

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1#EV1_series_hybrid

]]> Comment #7 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/ Mon, 12 Nov 2007 03:14:38 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/7 It's close. DrX

This is close to the car I have been describing:

"gasoline turbo engine drives the front wheels, while the electric motor drives the rear wheels

The electric motor (located in the trunk) is charged by the lithium-ion battery pack. The battery gets its power from a plug (think overnight recharging), regeneration from the brakes or the gas engine. By itself, the electric motor can power the vehicle for 62 miles (100 km) before needing the gas engine"

Except it is a two-seat, high-end sports car that will cost a small fortune. I say stick that motor in the back of a Yaris or Fix as a option. Put a switch on the dash to trade acceleration for range when you want put up a smoke screen so you don't have to look at the Hummer behind you.

These new batteries can dump huge amounts of current (for short periods) and electric motors can produce lots of torque, quickly. I can see why sports cars may lead the way with this concept. Although it would not cost much to give any economy car that has an electric drive the option to burn rubber.

Status seeking will drive it, as it drives most consumer purchases, but eventually the cost will drop enough to get them in regular cars where they are needed (cool people will drive them). People who don't drive much or far may rarely use the gas engine and average gas mileage may rapidly rise, while our government bumbles along ; )

Hopefully, the electrification of transport is on the horizon for rail and cars (URGE2), and with all the news lately of coal plant permits being denied, maybe we are seeing the start of something big.

We also need to blunt the agrofuel juggernaut because deforestation is one of the top players in global warming and although we have already deforested our part of the planet, the unique thing about global warming is that it is global. Plants growing in the US, largely on our conservation reserve land, have actually been absorbing a large percentage of our emissions.  Indonesia and Brazil are number three and four global warming polluters because of deforestation and their politicians are licking their lips to convert their last carbon sinks into biofuels for our cars.

Look at the chart below. You can make the black area  smaller by using more biofuel. Problem is, you will just make the blue area bigger while simultaneously destroying the biosphere. URGE2 is the only way out of this mess.

http://environmentaldefenseblogs.org/climate411/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/CO2-pie.jpg

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> It's close. DrX

This is close to the car I have been describing:

"gasoline turbo engine drives the front wheels, while the electric motor drives the rear wheels

The electric motor (located in the trunk) is charged by the lithium-ion battery pack. The battery gets its power from a plug (think overnight recharging), regeneration from the brakes or the gas engine. By itself, the electric motor can power the vehicle for 62 miles (100 km) before needing the gas engine"

Except it is a two-seat, high-end sports car that will cost a small fortune. I say stick that motor in the back of a Yaris or Fix as a option. Put a switch on the dash to trade acceleration for range when you want put up a smoke screen so you don't have to look at the Hummer behind you.

These new batteries can dump huge amounts of current (for short periods) and electric motors can produce lots of torque, quickly. I can see why sports cars may lead the way with this concept. Although it would not cost much to give any economy car that has an electric drive the option to burn rubber.

Status seeking will drive it, as it drives most consumer purchases, but eventually the cost will drop enough to get them in regular cars where they are needed (cool people will drive them). People who don't drive much or far may rarely use the gas engine and average gas mileage may rapidly rise, while our government bumbles along ; )

Hopefully, the electrification of transport is on the horizon for rail and cars (URGE2), and with all the news lately of coal plant permits being denied, maybe we are seeing the start of something big.

We also need to blunt the agrofuel juggernaut because deforestation is one of the top players in global warming and although we have already deforested our part of the planet, the unique thing about global warming is that it is global. Plants growing in the US, largely on our conservation reserve land, have actually been absorbing a large percentage of our emissions.  Indonesia and Brazil are number three and four global warming polluters because of deforestation and their politicians are licking their lips to convert their last carbon sinks into biofuels for our cars.

Look at the chart below. You can make the black area  smaller by using more biofuel. Problem is, you will just make the blue area bigger while simultaneously destroying the biosphere. URGE2 is the only way out of this mess.

http://environmentaldefenseblogs.org/climate411/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/CO2-pie.jpg

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #8 by racc http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/ Mon, 12 Nov 2007 05:23:17 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/8 Electric Cars arn't Green and Never Will Be

What is this, Car and Driver? Cars aren't and never will be green. There is simply no way 6 billion people can own and drive a car without severe environmentally impact even if they run off electricity. The age of the automobile is over. Get used to it.

It is disturbing that Grist continues to promote the green car fantasy.

Richard

]]> Electric Cars arn't Green and Never Will Be

What is this, Car and Driver? Cars aren't and never will be green. There is simply no way 6 billion people can own and drive a car without severe environmentally impact even if they run off electricity. The age of the automobile is over. Get used to it.

It is disturbing that Grist continues to promote the green car fantasy.

Richard

]]> Comment #9 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/ Mon, 12 Nov 2007 06:09:44 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/9 Look at them as a transitional technology

Add two more wheels to a bike, cover it in some light fabric, put an electric motor on it with some dirt cheap super duper high tech batteries and what have you got? A car that everyone could drive. Predicting the future is kinda tough but I'm pretty sure (vastly improved) mass transit will only be part of the answer.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Look at them as a transitional technology

Add two more wheels to a bike, cover it in some light fabric, put an electric motor on it with some dirt cheap super duper high tech batteries and what have you got? A car that everyone could drive. Predicting the future is kinda tough but I'm pretty sure (vastly improved) mass transit will only be part of the answer.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #10 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/ Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:53:11 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/preorder-your-high-end-plug-in-hybrid-now/10 Light fabric

I envision the fabric over inflatable cells of a very strong and light plastic.  You know those packages from the hardware store around tools that you can't tear open and have to use a side cutter on?

Recycle those into a smooth on the outside kind of Bucky Fuller geodesic bubble wrap body.  It's a giant air bag crash protection system as well.  And very very light.  It can even be made aerodynamic.  Now that would make a super ultralight hypercar.

Surrounded by super strong clear plastic bubbles while riding.  Maybe replicate Bucky's famous Dymaxion car design in smaller scale with bicycle wheels and the inflatable geodesic bubble body, powered by pedals and the same in wheel motor you use on your bike bio-d.  The three wheel design with the rear wheel driven would be very simple.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Light fabric

I envision the fabric over inflatable cells of a very strong and light plastic.  You know those packages from the hardware store around tools that you can't tear open and have to use a side cutter on?

Recycle those into a smooth on the outside kind of Bucky Fuller geodesic bubble wrap body.  It's a giant air bag crash protection system as well.  And very very light.  It can even be made aerodynamic.  Now that would make a super ultralight hypercar.

Surrounded by super strong clear plastic bubbles while riding.  Maybe replicate Bucky's famous Dymaxion car design in smaller scale with bicycle wheels and the inflatable geodesic bubble body, powered by pedals and the same in wheel motor you use on your bike bio-d.  The three wheel design with the rear wheel driven would be very simple.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]>