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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Nearly two-thirds of Americans support offshore drilling, says poll]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:24:33 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>So</strong></p><p>If these polls are correct, which I believe they are to at least some extent, spoiled, crybaby Americans are demanding more artificially cheap energy, consumption and use of which is destroying ecosystems, polluting the Earth, and killing other species and a few humans.</p><p>
I don't think environmentalists should be dismissive of these polls, because they're almost certainly true. &nbsp;Remember, support for environmental concerns is very shallow, regardless of how broad it may be on certain issues. &nbsp;Instead of dismissing the polls as being wrong or inaccurate, we must find a strategy to change public opinion from that of the immature selfish kid to one of being a mature member of the global society, which includes all forms of life. &nbsp;Any ideas?</p>
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				<p><strong>So</strong></p><p>If these polls are correct, which I believe they are to at least some extent, spoiled, crybaby Americans are demanding more artificially cheap energy, consumption and use of which is destroying ecosystems, polluting the Earth, and killing other species and a few humans.</p><p>
I don't think environmentalists should be dismissive of these polls, because they're almost certainly true. &nbsp;Remember, support for environmental concerns is very shallow, regardless of how broad it may be on certain issues. &nbsp;Instead of dismissing the polls as being wrong or inaccurate, we must find a strategy to change public opinion from that of the immature selfish kid to one of being a mature member of the global society, which includes all forms of life. &nbsp;Any ideas?</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Masked Goddess</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:04:50 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Mercy mercy me</strong></p><p>Oh, mercy mercy me<br>
Oh, things ain't what they used to be<br>
No, no<br>
Where did all the blue sky go?<br>
Poison is the wind that blows<br>
From the north, east, south, and sea<br>
Oh, mercy mercy me<br>
Oh, things ain't what they used to be<br>
No, no<br>
Oil wasted on the oceans and upon our seas<br>
Fish full of mercury<br>
Oh, mercy mercy me<br>
Oh, things ain't what they used to be<br>
No, no<br>
Radiation in the ground and in the sky<br>
Animals and birds who live nearby are dying<br>
Oh, mercy mercy me<br>
Oh, things ain't what they used to be<br>
What about this overcrowded land?<br>
How much more abuse from man can you stand?</p><p>
1971 - Marvin Gaye's words - and what has changed people? &nbsp;How can you not get it? &nbsp;I have to agree w/Wolverine. &nbsp;Most people I've talked with about this in the last 2 months are for offshore drilling and even building more nuclear power plants. &nbsp;The we want it all and we want it now mentality has gotten us into this mess. &nbsp;Howz 'bout we do it differently this time round folks? &nbsp;<br>
And to quote Chief Seattle: &nbsp;Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of earth. If men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves. &nbsp;</p><p>
Are those of you with kids and grandkids forgetting that we're teaching them how to treat the Earth and one another? &nbsp;</p><p>
And as Marvin also sang: &nbsp;makes me wanna holler.</br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Mercy mercy me</strong></p><p>Oh, mercy mercy me<br>
Oh, things ain't what they used to be<br>
No, no<br>
Where did all the blue sky go?<br>
Poison is the wind that blows<br>
From the north, east, south, and sea<br>
Oh, mercy mercy me<br>
Oh, things ain't what they used to be<br>
No, no<br>
Oil wasted on the oceans and upon our seas<br>
Fish full of mercury<br>
Oh, mercy mercy me<br>
Oh, things ain't what they used to be<br>
No, no<br>
Radiation in the ground and in the sky<br>
Animals and birds who live nearby are dying<br>
Oh, mercy mercy me<br>
Oh, things ain't what they used to be<br>
What about this overcrowded land?<br>
How much more abuse from man can you stand?</p><p>
1971 - Marvin Gaye's words - and what has changed people? &nbsp;How can you not get it? &nbsp;I have to agree w/Wolverine. &nbsp;Most people I've talked with about this in the last 2 months are for offshore drilling and even building more nuclear power plants. &nbsp;The we want it all and we want it now mentality has gotten us into this mess. &nbsp;Howz 'bout we do it differently this time round folks? &nbsp;<br>
And to quote Chief Seattle: &nbsp;Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of earth. If men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves. &nbsp;</p><p>
Are those of you with kids and grandkids forgetting that we're teaching them how to treat the Earth and one another? &nbsp;</p><p>
And as Marvin also sang: &nbsp;makes me wanna holler.</br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by guade00</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:03:44 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>I have an idea...</strong></p><p>put your head between your legs and kiss your...but, really, environmental issues have almost always taken a back seat to pocketbook issues, especially in election years. I suppose the trick is to connect the immediate economic issues with environmentalism. Tough task.</p><p>
We'll get there, but the world may take on a WALL-E-esque color palette before we do.</p>
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				<p><strong>I have an idea...</strong></p><p>put your head between your legs and kiss your...but, really, environmental issues have almost always taken a back seat to pocketbook issues, especially in election years. I suppose the trick is to connect the immediate economic issues with environmentalism. Tough task.</p><p>
We'll get there, but the world may take on a WALL-E-esque color palette before we do.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:25:21 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Energy Or Waste?</strong></p><p><br>
Wait a minute...when did "environmentalism" shift from decrying waste and pollutants to attacking overall economic productivity?</p><p>
I think that yes, way back in the 1970s, there was a case that the two were linked...because quite frankly almost all industry was dirty.</p><p>
But times have changed...if not the mindset of ecologists.</p><p>
Today's cars produce very little pollution compared to the Ford Torino's of 1973.</p><p>
If the ecologists didn't have the CO2 scare, which in a exceedingly fragile chain of logic, now gives them opportunity to not only criticize by products but also the entire American lifestyle and economy, there wouldn't be much for them to do.</p><p>
What, I ask, will happen when we all drive H2 powered cars, fueled by solar electrolysis? &nbsp; What, is the difference at that point between a person living in a 4 bedroom house in the exurbs and a person living in a 14 story studio in the old urb? &nbsp; </p><p>
My vision is that what was called the suburbs...which have stretched the very paradigm of "the grid" are not breaking the grid. &nbsp; With independent and locally generated power. &nbsp; With WiMax (Clearwire) that can provide broadband without wires. &nbsp;With water purification driven by wind and sun.</p><p>
This is not so much a criticism of people doing bad things to the environment, as a retrogarde fear of new freedom.</p><p>
"They" are the Village Green Preservation Society.</p><p>
"Preserving the old ways from being abused<br>
Protecting the new ways for me and for you"</p><p>
--Kinks</br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Energy Or Waste?</strong></p><p><br>
Wait a minute...when did "environmentalism" shift from decrying waste and pollutants to attacking overall economic productivity?</p><p>
I think that yes, way back in the 1970s, there was a case that the two were linked...because quite frankly almost all industry was dirty.</p><p>
But times have changed...if not the mindset of ecologists.</p><p>
Today's cars produce very little pollution compared to the Ford Torino's of 1973.</p><p>
If the ecologists didn't have the CO2 scare, which in a exceedingly fragile chain of logic, now gives them opportunity to not only criticize by products but also the entire American lifestyle and economy, there wouldn't be much for them to do.</p><p>
What, I ask, will happen when we all drive H2 powered cars, fueled by solar electrolysis? &nbsp; What, is the difference at that point between a person living in a 4 bedroom house in the exurbs and a person living in a 14 story studio in the old urb? &nbsp; </p><p>
My vision is that what was called the suburbs...which have stretched the very paradigm of "the grid" are not breaking the grid. &nbsp; With independent and locally generated power. &nbsp; With WiMax (Clearwire) that can provide broadband without wires. &nbsp;With water purification driven by wind and sun.</p><p>
This is not so much a criticism of people doing bad things to the environment, as a retrogarde fear of new freedom.</p><p>
"They" are the Village Green Preservation Society.</p><p>
"Preserving the old ways from being abused<br>
Protecting the new ways for me and for you"</p><p>
--Kinks</br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by randino</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:33:28 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>A Modern Ghost Dance</strong></p><p>Oil drilling is not just a public policy matter, it is a cry from the soul of the American public for the return of a way of life that they know in their hearts is dying. At the end of the 19th century, a Paiute shaman began a religious movement among Native Americans called the Ghost Dance. Basically it promised to bring back everything Native Americans had lost over the previous three centuries. It failed miserably, and even provided an excuse to kill off some more indians at Wounded Knee. </p><p>
Oil drilling is our society's Ghost Dance. It will fail, just like the other one did. But desperate people can easily fall for false promises of shamans or politicians. </p><p>
Randy Cunningham<br>
Cleveland, OH</br></p>
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				<p><strong>A Modern Ghost Dance</strong></p><p>Oil drilling is not just a public policy matter, it is a cry from the soul of the American public for the return of a way of life that they know in their hearts is dying. At the end of the 19th century, a Paiute shaman began a religious movement among Native Americans called the Ghost Dance. Basically it promised to bring back everything Native Americans had lost over the previous three centuries. It failed miserably, and even provided an excuse to kill off some more indians at Wounded Knee. </p><p>
Oil drilling is our society's Ghost Dance. It will fail, just like the other one did. But desperate people can easily fall for false promises of shamans or politicians. </p><p>
Randy Cunningham<br>
Cleveland, OH</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by jja</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:39:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>H2 powered cars</strong></p><p>"What, I ask, will happen when we all drive H2 powered cars, fueled by solar electrolysis? &nbsp; What, is the difference at that point between a person living in a 4 bedroom house in the exurbs and a person living in a 14 story studio in the old urb?"</p><p>
One difference is: the exurb person will still be sitting in a traffic jam in their H2 powered car, wearing down the asphalt, wearing down their patience, driving up their stress level, costing the economy in innumerable ways.</p><p>
But at least he/she can step out of the car while traffic is at a full stop, and collect some pure H20 from the tailpipe to drink and get refreshed.<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>H2 powered cars</strong></p><p>"What, I ask, will happen when we all drive H2 powered cars, fueled by solar electrolysis? &nbsp; What, is the difference at that point between a person living in a 4 bedroom house in the exurbs and a person living in a 14 story studio in the old urb?"</p><p>
One difference is: the exurb person will still be sitting in a traffic jam in their H2 powered car, wearing down the asphalt, wearing down their patience, driving up their stress level, costing the economy in innumerable ways.</p><p>
But at least he/she can step out of the car while traffic is at a full stop, and collect some pure H20 from the tailpipe to drink and get refreshed.<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by MattKirby</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:21:17 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Other Polls Show Different Results<p>These polls are unfortunate and present an unfortunate reality. &nbsp;Yet they still must be taken with a grain of salt. &nbsp;As the original post points out, the way the questions are framed is often arguable. &nbsp;In a new poll commissioned by the League of Conservation Voters, the Sierra Club, and the Natural Resources Defense Council Action Fund, the results are staggeringly different. &nbsp;When given all the options (renewable energy vs. increased drilling), Americans overwhelmingly favor increasing investment for renewable energy. &nbsp;See my post about it here: <br>
<a href="http://www.sierraclub.org/wildlegacy/blog/2008/08/americans-dont-want-to-drill.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.sierraclub.org/wildlegacy/blog/2008/08/america ...<p>
Read the poll here:<br>
<a href="http://www.lcv.org/polls/gqr_energy.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.lcv.org/polls/gqr_energy.pdf</a></br></p></a></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Other Polls Show Different Results<p>These polls are unfortunate and present an unfortunate reality. &nbsp;Yet they still must be taken with a grain of salt. &nbsp;As the original post points out, the way the questions are framed is often arguable. &nbsp;In a new poll commissioned by the League of Conservation Voters, the Sierra Club, and the Natural Resources Defense Council Action Fund, the results are staggeringly different. &nbsp;When given all the options (renewable energy vs. increased drilling), Americans overwhelmingly favor increasing investment for renewable energy. &nbsp;See my post about it here: <br>
<a href="http://www.sierraclub.org/wildlegacy/blog/2008/08/americans-dont-want-to-drill.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.sierraclub.org/wildlegacy/blog/2008/08/america ...<p>
Read the poll here:<br>
<a href="http://www.lcv.org/polls/gqr_energy.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.lcv.org/polls/gqr_energy.pdf</a></br></p></a></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:15:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Promises Of Shamans</strong></p><p>The difference between the Paiute shaman and the drilling advocates is that the Paiute shaman was trying to bring back something good and get rid of something evil. &nbsp;The drilling advocates are doing exactly the opposite.</p>
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				<p><strong>Promises Of Shamans</strong></p><p>The difference between the Paiute shaman and the drilling advocates is that the Paiute shaman was trying to bring back something good and get rid of something evil. &nbsp;The drilling advocates are doing exactly the opposite.</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Howell Haus</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 04:24:05 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Shore, we shouldn't !</strong></p><p>Next time you want something from the store, plan to attend work, church or school... or just to get a cup of coffee or sandwich, consider... can I walk there ? can I ride a bike ? can I take a bus ? can I postpone it ? &nbsp;combine it with other errands later ? can I offer to share the ride with someone else ?</p><p>
These don't sound like much, but when we use these - far and wide, each small change can produce a huge impact. And, if we heed the call to conserve and switch to renewables, then these shell game calls for leases that provide no immediate benefit can tell in time whether they mattered or not. &nbsp;Let's face it, if those leases are held without action and we devote our resources to renewables, then the leases will still be available later, when the companies seeking them will have exhausted all the other leases they're not currently using.</p><p>
Let's hope that Americans will begin to wake up to the realities of a subsidized life and lifestyle and understand that, now more than ever, the dollar has a vote. &nbsp;Our dollars will not be well spent on oil - any further. &nbsp;In fact, with record oil profits, the existing subsidies should be retrieved and added to the incentives for renewables - not support and subsidize more dirty oil, coal, etc. &nbsp;As for me and mine, we'll see you out there, on our bikes of course...</p>
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				<p><strong>Shore, we shouldn't !</strong></p><p>Next time you want something from the store, plan to attend work, church or school... or just to get a cup of coffee or sandwich, consider... can I walk there ? can I ride a bike ? can I take a bus ? can I postpone it ? &nbsp;combine it with other errands later ? can I offer to share the ride with someone else ?</p><p>
These don't sound like much, but when we use these - far and wide, each small change can produce a huge impact. And, if we heed the call to conserve and switch to renewables, then these shell game calls for leases that provide no immediate benefit can tell in time whether they mattered or not. &nbsp;Let's face it, if those leases are held without action and we devote our resources to renewables, then the leases will still be available later, when the companies seeking them will have exhausted all the other leases they're not currently using.</p><p>
Let's hope that Americans will begin to wake up to the realities of a subsidized life and lifestyle and understand that, now more than ever, the dollar has a vote. &nbsp;Our dollars will not be well spent on oil - any further. &nbsp;In fact, with record oil profits, the existing subsidies should be retrieved and added to the incentives for renewables - not support and subsidize more dirty oil, coal, etc. &nbsp;As for me and mine, we'll see you out there, on our bikes of course...</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by randino</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 04:42:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Amen, Wolverine.</strong></p><p></p>
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				<p><strong>Amen, Wolverine.</strong></p><p></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by mtvyfan</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:44:24 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>Thanks Wolverine and Randy!</strong></p><p>Randy when I read the title of your post, I immediately got chills and Wolverine, yours too. You both are so right. I picture a scene from Stephen King's book, "The Stand" where a crazy old man is holding onto a gas hose pump and I shudder, because that is the future of mankind unless we change our oil dependency, right now.</p><p>
Everyone in this country and I say in this country first, because we are responsible for setting an example to the rest of the world due to the rest of the world wanting to emulate the American lifestyle. We need to lead the way in conservation and energy efficiency and we are sleeping at the switch!</p><p>
I pray things change with a new administration, but who knows. I hope it's not just business as usual for this country and we still remain the hypocrites of the world. Expecting other countries to change their polluting ways while we do nothing. </p>
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				<p><strong>Thanks Wolverine and Randy!</strong></p><p>Randy when I read the title of your post, I immediately got chills and Wolverine, yours too. You both are so right. I picture a scene from Stephen King's book, "The Stand" where a crazy old man is holding onto a gas hose pump and I shudder, because that is the future of mankind unless we change our oil dependency, right now.</p><p>
Everyone in this country and I say in this country first, because we are responsible for setting an example to the rest of the world due to the rest of the world wanting to emulate the American lifestyle. We need to lead the way in conservation and energy efficiency and we are sleeping at the switch!</p><p>
I pray things change with a new administration, but who knows. I hope it's not just business as usual for this country and we still remain the hypocrites of the world. Expecting other countries to change their polluting ways while we do nothing. </p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by Pathos</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:37:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>On a completely different subject...</strong></p><p>I went to view the actual Rasmussen poll... And saw not one, but TWO ads for McCain.</p><p>
One sported the words "Obama's energy plan" and a tire gauge.</p><p>
No... There isn't an agenda behind this poll...</p>
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				<p><strong>On a completely different subject...</strong></p><p>I went to view the actual Rasmussen poll... And saw not one, but TWO ads for McCain.</p><p>
One sported the words "Obama's energy plan" and a tire gauge.</p><p>
No... There isn't an agenda behind this poll...</p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by jb943</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/poll/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:18:44 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/poll/13</guid>
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				<p><strong>polls<p>Sometimes, polls are used to shape public opinion rather than reflect it. I'm not sure what a Rasmussen poll is, does anyone know if it's legitimate?<p>
I know of this recent poll, too. <p>
1.) New Poll Shows that Americans Prefer Clean Energy:<p>
League of Conservation Voters, August 11, 2008<p>
<a href="http://www.lcv.org/newsroom/press-releases/new-poll-shows-that-americans-prefer-clean-energy.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lcv.org/newsroom/press-releases/new-poll-shows ...<p>
A new national energy poll reveals that Americans favor investment in clean, renewable energy over increased oil drilling when presented with the full spectrum of energy options. &nbsp;The report was released today by the League of Conservation Voters, the Sierra Club, and the Natural Resources Defense Council Action Fund. Some of the poll's top findings indicate that 83 percent of Americans support a plan to end America's addiction to oil through investment in wind, solar, and next generation biofuel technology, 20 percent more than supported increased offshore drilling. 80 percent believe that America should put a stop to billions of dollars in oil subsidies and use the money to invest in renewable sources. Click here to download the Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research poll: <a href="http://www.lcv.org/polls/gqr_energy.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.lcv.org/polls/gqr_energy.pdf </a></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>polls<p>Sometimes, polls are used to shape public opinion rather than reflect it. I'm not sure what a Rasmussen poll is, does anyone know if it's legitimate?<p>
I know of this recent poll, too. <p>
1.) New Poll Shows that Americans Prefer Clean Energy:<p>
League of Conservation Voters, August 11, 2008<p>
<a href="http://www.lcv.org/newsroom/press-releases/new-poll-shows-that-americans-prefer-clean-energy.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lcv.org/newsroom/press-releases/new-poll-shows ...<p>
A new national energy poll reveals that Americans favor investment in clean, renewable energy over increased oil drilling when presented with the full spectrum of energy options. &nbsp;The report was released today by the League of Conservation Voters, the Sierra Club, and the Natural Resources Defense Council Action Fund. Some of the poll's top findings indicate that 83 percent of Americans support a plan to end America's addiction to oil through investment in wind, solar, and next generation biofuel technology, 20 percent more than supported increased offshore drilling. 80 percent believe that America should put a stop to billions of dollars in oil subsidies and use the money to invest in renewable sources. Click here to download the Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research poll: <a href="http://www.lcv.org/polls/gqr_energy.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.lcv.org/polls/gqr_energy.pdf </a></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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