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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Umbra on driveways]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by rufwork</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 01:39:02 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>The permeable poop</strong></p><p>Our diaperless kids can poop on the floor but "There's no way I could have a gravel driveway!"? &nbsp;Priorities, priorities...</p>
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				<p><strong>The permeable poop</strong></p><p>Our diaperless kids can poop on the floor but "There's no way I could have a gravel driveway!"? &nbsp;Priorities, priorities...</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by loraz</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 04:38:52 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>What about snow?</strong></p><p>I love the idea of the plastic grid system, but is it practical to install this kind of driveway in places that have snowy winters? &nbsp;Is it possible to shovel and/or snow blow this kind of driveway, or do you end up with a sheet of ice for a driveway all winter? &nbsp;If anyone has thoughts on eco-friendly driveways for Wisconsin, I'd love to hear them!</p>
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				<p><strong>What about snow?</strong></p><p>I love the idea of the plastic grid system, but is it practical to install this kind of driveway in places that have snowy winters? &nbsp;Is it possible to shovel and/or snow blow this kind of driveway, or do you end up with a sheet of ice for a driveway all winter? &nbsp;If anyone has thoughts on eco-friendly driveways for Wisconsin, I'd love to hear them!</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by rivergal</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 07:11:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Cold climate driveways</strong></p><p>Here in Anchorage AK we have a gravel driveway, which is much safer to walk on than asphalt during the winter because the gravel provides some traction. &nbsp;Alaskans do not usually expect bare pavement on driving surfaces and most of our roads and drives remain white from late October through mid-April. &nbsp;It's relatively easy to shovel new snow off the hard-packed snow/ice surface no matter whether there's concrete, asphalt, or gravel underneath. &nbsp;We don't have sources of cheap salt and the sun is not high or strong enough to melt snow off roads until mid-spring, so we use "sand" (really small gravel that does a number on our windshields) and studded tires (or Blizzaks) for traction.</p><p>
Plastic grid usually has to be anchored and/or ballasted to hold it in place, using gravel in the cells. &nbsp;It has the advantage of keeping the gravel in one place, too, but I don't think it's suitable for driveways with much slope. &nbsp;Anywhere there's frost heaving masonery and concrete can cause problems -- that's why flexible asphalt is so popular up north.</p><p>
Porous pavement is perfect for most parking areas but may need to be vacuumed -- using a special machine -- to keep fine particles from clogging the pores over time, especially if you use sand on your drive or if your car picks up a lot of sand and grime from street applications.</p><p>
Whatever you do, just don't get a heated drive! &nbsp;You'd be suprised how popular they are here (well, given what you all are finding out about our Guv, maybe not . . .) and I cringe every time I see steam rising from one of them.</p>
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				<p><strong>Cold climate driveways</strong></p><p>Here in Anchorage AK we have a gravel driveway, which is much safer to walk on than asphalt during the winter because the gravel provides some traction. &nbsp;Alaskans do not usually expect bare pavement on driving surfaces and most of our roads and drives remain white from late October through mid-April. &nbsp;It's relatively easy to shovel new snow off the hard-packed snow/ice surface no matter whether there's concrete, asphalt, or gravel underneath. &nbsp;We don't have sources of cheap salt and the sun is not high or strong enough to melt snow off roads until mid-spring, so we use "sand" (really small gravel that does a number on our windshields) and studded tires (or Blizzaks) for traction.</p><p>
Plastic grid usually has to be anchored and/or ballasted to hold it in place, using gravel in the cells. &nbsp;It has the advantage of keeping the gravel in one place, too, but I don't think it's suitable for driveways with much slope. &nbsp;Anywhere there's frost heaving masonery and concrete can cause problems -- that's why flexible asphalt is so popular up north.</p><p>
Porous pavement is perfect for most parking areas but may need to be vacuumed -- using a special machine -- to keep fine particles from clogging the pores over time, especially if you use sand on your drive or if your car picks up a lot of sand and grime from street applications.</p><p>
Whatever you do, just don't get a heated drive! &nbsp;You'd be suprised how popular they are here (well, given what you all are finding out about our Guv, maybe not . . .) and I cringe every time I see steam rising from one of them.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by katmainomad</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 09:48:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>how do I do no driveway/parking?</strong></p><p>Another weigh-in from Anchorage :) &nbsp;I'd love to do no driveway (because my car is a bike) but I'm buying a 4-plex (the ecoplex) and my understanding is that I must provide a certain number of parking spaces per unit. &nbsp;Anyone know of a precedent for gaining exceptions to this - can bike parking count :) </p>
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				<p><strong>how do I do no driveway/parking?</strong></p><p>Another weigh-in from Anchorage :) &nbsp;I'd love to do no driveway (because my car is a bike) but I'm buying a 4-plex (the ecoplex) and my understanding is that I must provide a certain number of parking spaces per unit. &nbsp;Anyone know of a precedent for gaining exceptions to this - can bike parking count :) </p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by racc</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 04:16:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>What is the Best Desk Surface for the Titanic?</strong></p><p>Just get rid of the car. Stop worrying about things like driveway surface that won't make much of a difference anyway.</p>
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				<p><strong>What is the Best Desk Surface for the Titanic?</strong></p><p>Just get rid of the car. Stop worrying about things like driveway surface that won't make much of a difference anyway.</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by PolluteLessDotCom</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 06:43:56 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Length of driveway<p>The length and width of a driveway should be considered as well. Too many people do not consider building their residence close to the street (or at least the car port). The higher priorities are still somewhere else. Mostly the views.<p>
Anyhow, shorter and more narrow drive ways cost less, and require less material, less maintenance, and most importantly, less snow removal. Of course with a shorter driveway also come shorter power and phone lines, shorter water lines, shorter waste water lines, etc. In some areas a shorter driveway removes the need for a 4-wheel-drive vehicle since you are close enough to a road and not up a hill. <p>
If you are connected to the grid (or network of roads), stay close to it!<p>
My two cents.<p>
Karsten<br>
<a href="http://www.polluteless.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.polluteless.com</a></br></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Length of driveway<p>The length and width of a driveway should be considered as well. Too many people do not consider building their residence close to the street (or at least the car port). The higher priorities are still somewhere else. Mostly the views.<p>
Anyhow, shorter and more narrow drive ways cost less, and require less material, less maintenance, and most importantly, less snow removal. Of course with a shorter driveway also come shorter power and phone lines, shorter water lines, shorter waste water lines, etc. In some areas a shorter driveway removes the need for a 4-wheel-drive vehicle since you are close enough to a road and not up a hill. <p>
If you are connected to the grid (or network of roads), stay close to it!<p>
My two cents.<p>
Karsten<br>
<a href="http://www.polluteless.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.polluteless.com</a></br></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by aieageoff</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 04:34:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Eco-friendly driveways</strong></p><p>The Romans built their roads with a gravel base and well fitted paver stones. &nbsp;2,000 years later, many of these roads are still here.</p>
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				<p><strong>Eco-friendly driveways</strong></p><p>The Romans built their roads with a gravel base and well fitted paver stones. &nbsp;2,000 years later, many of these roads are still here.</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by 2wheeler</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 06:54:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>recycled concrete, other considerations</strong></p><p>My driveway at my last residence sloped from the street down to a parking pad in front of a car port. &nbsp;I hand-excavated and flattened the pad area and made it into a cobblestone paver surfaced dual-use patio/parking area. &nbsp;Water was able to soak in through the pavers and the sand base underneath it. &nbsp;The patio was a perfect spot to set up the picnic table for occasional use, as well!</p><p>
The sloping portion of the driveway was gravel with grass growing down the middle. &nbsp;We improved the surface of the sloped driveway by salvaging some old concrete sidewalk chunks broken into angular "gravel" of the appropriate size. &nbsp;We used a sledgehammer and wore appropriate eye protection! &nbsp;The surface provided great traction, durability and water permeability. &nbsp;It was free. &nbsp;Our small cars handled it great.</p><p>
Here in Ohio my parents have a large gravel driveway at their farm which they maintain by grading the surface with the tractor's grader blade about every 6 months or so. &nbsp;They have no problem keeping it clear of deep snow using the same tractor blade. &nbsp;Their driveway has some weedy plants growing through it, which could either be tolerated or pulled, depending on one's preference.</p><p>
I agree that permeable pavement is best for watershed protection. &nbsp;There is too much hard surface area (roofs and pavement) in the urbanized area already; the rivers are suffering from the storm runoff surges.</p><p>
My current home has no driveway-- just an alley from which the garage may be accessed. I love it!</p>
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				<p><strong>recycled concrete, other considerations</strong></p><p>My driveway at my last residence sloped from the street down to a parking pad in front of a car port. &nbsp;I hand-excavated and flattened the pad area and made it into a cobblestone paver surfaced dual-use patio/parking area. &nbsp;Water was able to soak in through the pavers and the sand base underneath it. &nbsp;The patio was a perfect spot to set up the picnic table for occasional use, as well!</p><p>
The sloping portion of the driveway was gravel with grass growing down the middle. &nbsp;We improved the surface of the sloped driveway by salvaging some old concrete sidewalk chunks broken into angular "gravel" of the appropriate size. &nbsp;We used a sledgehammer and wore appropriate eye protection! &nbsp;The surface provided great traction, durability and water permeability. &nbsp;It was free. &nbsp;Our small cars handled it great.</p><p>
Here in Ohio my parents have a large gravel driveway at their farm which they maintain by grading the surface with the tractor's grader blade about every 6 months or so. &nbsp;They have no problem keeping it clear of deep snow using the same tractor blade. &nbsp;Their driveway has some weedy plants growing through it, which could either be tolerated or pulled, depending on one's preference.</p><p>
I agree that permeable pavement is best for watershed protection. &nbsp;There is too much hard surface area (roofs and pavement) in the urbanized area already; the rivers are suffering from the storm runoff surges.</p><p>
My current home has no driveway-- just an alley from which the garage may be accessed. I love it!</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by gooseduckstevens</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 07:33:52 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/paving-grace/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>not many good options</strong></p><p>Gravel driveways become impervious over time. &nbsp;They're almost as bad as concrete and asphalt.</p><p>
Pavers are expensive and also become impervious over time...especially tight fitting pavers. &nbsp;</p><p>
Porous concrete and asphalt are a good option, but require a deep uniform diameter gravel base to act as a reservoir. &nbsp; &nbsp;Also, there aren't many contractors that know how to design and install it properly. &nbsp;You can't just hire Joe Concrete Guy down the street or you'll end up with a very expensive impervious porous concrete driveway. &nbsp;The benefit though is that oil and grease and other nasties biodegrade within the pores. &nbsp;You're looking at least a 50% increase in cost over a traditional concrete driveway and you have to vacuum the fines out of the pores to prevent it from clogging. &nbsp;Check out research done by Bruce K. Ferguson in GA.</p><p>
Something that has been in use for years is the tire strip concrete driveway. &nbsp;You pour two strips for your tires to ride on and in between and all around is grass or another low growing plant, groundcover, moss, etc. &nbsp;You minimize impervious and adjacent vegetation provides some treatment of runoff. &nbsp;You can do the same with pavers...paver strips.</p>
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				<p><strong>not many good options</strong></p><p>Gravel driveways become impervious over time. &nbsp;They're almost as bad as concrete and asphalt.</p><p>
Pavers are expensive and also become impervious over time...especially tight fitting pavers. &nbsp;</p><p>
Porous concrete and asphalt are a good option, but require a deep uniform diameter gravel base to act as a reservoir. &nbsp; &nbsp;Also, there aren't many contractors that know how to design and install it properly. &nbsp;You can't just hire Joe Concrete Guy down the street or you'll end up with a very expensive impervious porous concrete driveway. &nbsp;The benefit though is that oil and grease and other nasties biodegrade within the pores. &nbsp;You're looking at least a 50% increase in cost over a traditional concrete driveway and you have to vacuum the fines out of the pores to prevent it from clogging. &nbsp;Check out research done by Bruce K. Ferguson in GA.</p><p>
Something that has been in use for years is the tire strip concrete driveway. &nbsp;You pour two strips for your tires to ride on and in between and all around is grass or another low growing plant, groundcover, moss, etc. &nbsp;You minimize impervious and adjacent vegetation provides some treatment of runoff. &nbsp;You can do the same with pavers...paver strips.</p>
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