but even i don't; believe we can feed the world organically.

right now most of the people on this planet cannot afford to eat well much less buy organic.

we need to get real and realize that technology to increase organic crop yields is important to long term sustainable food production.

not every one has the access OR luxury to afford organic food.

with the bathwater.  "Organic" pesticides are wonderful tools for those of us in transition to organics.  It takes many years for the soil on a conventional farm like mine to rebuild itself to a point that plant health can trump pest pressure.

Without something to fall back on, many of us wouldn't make the transition at all.  

I find it curious that so many are so quick to find fault with organic farmers.  Seems to me that they are just anti-farmer, period.  Sure, in a perfect world everyone would grow their own food in their kitchen garden, and support their neighborhood farmer.  Reality is that most people live in urban centers with no yard and little to no contact with rural people.  Organics are a great choice for them.

Getting a little tired of being the bad guy (or gal, in this case), no matter what choice I make on my 'transitioning' farm.....
Jackie

Irish Grove

> but even i don't; believe we can feed the world organically.

I agree with you.  We cannot feed the world as it is, and I don't know why any one would want to try because the distribution costs alone are prohibitive.  We could, however, teach each other how to grow our own food, organically of course.

> right now most of the people on this planet cannot afford to eat well much less buy organic.

I think you are right about not being able to pay to eat.  Organic produce that I buy is often less expensive than or the same price as the petrochemical laced alternatives.  As petrochemicals become more and more expensive, I think we will see a rise in the price of the petrochemical laced alternatives.  I've done actual value for dollar rather than price based comparisons, and organic produce is less expensive in many ways.

> we need to get real and realize that technology to increase organic crop yields is important to long term sustainable food production.

You are right.  We need to move beyond the legacy of petrochemical technology and go with more modern low impact and often low-tech technological approaches.  I think that newer technology water systems save both in labor and water used.

> not every one has the access OR luxury to afford organic food.

Limited access may only be because of the misguided idea that luxury of property rights often trump preservation of habitat, and human rights of access to water, food and shelter.

    "As petrochemicals become more and more expensive, I think we will see a rise in the price of the petrochemical laced alternatives."
  We don't have to wait to get more bang for our buck.  For your nutritional dollar, although organic is up to double the cost of conventional, organic produce is up to four times as nutritious as conventional.
  "...but even i don't; believe we can feed the world organically."
  If we cannot feed the world's population organically, then ther are too many people on this planet.  Snip snip.
 

Pamela Marrone, PhD  is trying to change agriculture for the better, and in the process do her part to help mother earth. The number one reason why organic food is more expensive is the cost of controlling weeds -- manpower hoeing, damaged crops, etc.

If she succeeds with developing an organic roundup this will result in fewer acres using synthetic pesticides, and even IPM/traditional farmers having another, less dangerous option to add to their bag of tricks.

The observation has been made in Gristmill from time to time that colleges in farm states and agricultural regions have for decades featured programs in agricultural studies that emphasize industrial agricultural techniques, and that these programs are funded by agri-biz interests in one way or another; but that, by terrific contrast, so far there has been no promotion whatsoever of studies of pre-industrial and organic agriculture, including such subjects as pest control.

Is this true?  If so, is it a sorry truth?  And if so, is there something to be done about it?

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

It's true, that's the main problem.  Insects can be controlled by planting strategy, planting insect repelling plants.  Natural pesticides,  natural predators, birds and predator insects.

Weeds are the big efficiency drain on organic crops.  Mulching can save human labor, but it takes a lot of labor and care.

Cultivation itself derives from a selection of the crop plants and a rejection of all other plants.  Simple robotics can do that job.  And inject exactly the right amount of organic fertilizer and water for each plant right into the soil.

Robots can run on renewable electric power.  Chemicals replaced, productivity not only preserved, but actually enhanced.  GHG stored in the living soil.  

Nitrous oxide from chemical fertilizer, that amounts to 2/3 of the GHG effect of the CO2 sequestered by the plants, canceled.  Methane from manure and fertilizer run off prevented.  

Organic ag coupled with biodigestion can cure climate disaster.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

My secret recipe has been handed down for three generations and seems to work well.  The only manufactured component is Ivory soap, which is mainly glycerin. I suppose one could use organic soap but you do need a media to make the bug juice stick to the pests and undersides of the leaves

Active ingredients can me varied depending on where you live. For example, rhubarb leaves contain oxalic acid (I think, been a while) and is quite effective. Another very effective one used in small doses is tobacco, which contains nicotanic acid. Be careful, since some plants are very toxic, perhaps too toxic for your tomatoes.  

The final ingredient - I love this one - is bugs.  I collect a bunch by hand or however I can. It turns out that many bugs have chemicals that run off other bugs, make them taste nasty, or things I don't fully understand.  

Anyway, combine ingredients for a day or so, strain real good, and shoot your plants with a pump sprayer. I like watching the nasty bugs die so fast without having to use synthetic chemicals.   Don't shoot plants with lots of beneficial bugs!
-sam

Onward through the fog

Check out the EPA's approved list of active and inactive ingredients entitled the 25B list.  You will find ingredients that farmers have been using throughout time, there is nothing new here. This is nature at its best, using pharmacologically active constituents found in plants to act as insecticides, pesticides and herbicides.

I grew up in a very rural area in Ohio and would have greatly appreciated the aroma of Rosemary Oil being sprayed on crops instead of toxic chemicals.We should all be thanking Marrone Organic Innovations for their diligence and concern for the environment.  And yes, you are going to see more and more products that can compete with roundup and maybe even tout a certified organic label.

Rachel A. Markel

Bud- in response to

[new] i 'm an organic farmer but even i don't; believe we can feed the world organically.
right now most of the people on this planet cannot afford to eat well much less buy organic.  we need to get real and realize that technology to increase organic crop yields is important to long term sustainable food production. not every one has the access OR luxury to afford organic food.

I would like to disagree. Organic farming has healthier yields than non-organic; and if every neighborhood or many houses in a neighborhood started a community or back yard garden, these additional food sources could easily make up for the possible lower yields organic farming creates. For areas without access to water, rain barrels work wonderfully.

Thanks cavecanem, about the only think I haven't figured out are thick swarms of grasshoppers or locusts, since even the birds can't handle them.  

The idea about essential oils such as rosemary was also a good one. I don't "make" essential oils, I just throw some stuff together as an infusion, as sometimes those oils are way too strong.

I do have a word to say about some "bugs" such as caterpillars. I am a butterfly freak as well as an amateur gardener and whenever I plant certain crops certain caterpillars come to feed on them. So I'll pick the nasty ones like the Tomato Cutworm but plant a little heavy for a little "sacrificial food" for a few butterflies. Happy gardening!

Onward through the fog

There are lots of tools that organic farmers can use that can also be misused. You generally offer helpful observations--but one common misconception you repeat is that larger farms are more likely to want to "bend" the rules, and to use "pseudoorganic" practices.  Not true, as a general statement.  The bigger guys use preventive practices like insectary crops between rows of strawberries, good rotations, and similar measures.  Often smaller farmers can't afford things like flame weeder rigs, let alone decent wages for farm help.  

The use of any pest or weed control substance is intended to be a fall-back measure, as enshrined in the NOP rules by having to be justified in the farm plan when prevention, mechanical and biological measures don't work.

Rather than pounding organic farmers for failing to live up to the mythology, how about applauding the effort to play by the rules and show the world that organic is a viable alternative for any farmer?

Tom Philoptt, thank you very much for this post.

A green pesticide or herbicide is still a pesticide or herbicide. And a green developer is still a developer.

I have a couple questions for Marrone Orgnaic Innovations...

(1) Will MOI be patenting the pesticides and herbicides they develop? More specifically, if they get the chemicals from a natural source will others still be able to extract their own chemicals from those sources or will everyone using natural remedies have to pay royalties to Marrone?

(2) When MOI finds natural sources of pesticides and herbicides, will they make sure that indigenous people are compensated for the use of their natural heritage?

(3) If I'm currently using a natural pesticide or herbicide but have not patented it, will I be able to continue using it or will MOI tell me to stop?

(4) Will MOI publish an environmental and social impact statement for each natural pesticide and herbicide, including the number of acres of temperate or tropical rainforest converted to chrysanthemum, neem tree, or other plantations, how much land has been converted to growing food for local populations to growing pesticides for Europe and North America, and whether they are paying the locals a fair wage?

Just curious.

"Green" or "natural" pesticides and herbicides are not benign pesticides and herbicides. Some are even more dangerous than their synthetic counterparts. The goal of environmentalist should be to eliminate ALL chemicals from agriculture.

Exactly how do organic farmers control weeds, expecially grass, in their strawberry beds?!

I spent six hours pulling grass, trying to get every last root, from several rows -- about 80 square feet -- of strawberry plants. Fortunately, I'm talkng about a home garden, so it is a labor of love and protects us from contaminated fruit. It is worth the effort.

But if someone paid me a reasonable wage of $20 per hour or $42,000 a year to do this sort of thing, it would cost $1.50 (+ health insurance + retirement benefits + social security) to clear the weeds from just one square foot. Is this cost effective? Is the yield high enough on an organic farm?

I cannot imagine how you folks compete with industrial ag.

(Sorry for the duplicate post... seems to fall under each topic and I couldn't decide where to post it. Peace.)