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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for &#8216;One record year is not global warming&#8217;&#8212;Luckily, there are plenty  more years to consider]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 02:49:20 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Let me just say<p>that running this series was a brilliant idea. The lack of comments is testament to the strength of the arguments. Exxxcellent.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: <a href="http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Let me just say<p>that running this series was a brilliant idea. The lack of comments is testament to the strength of the arguments. Exxxcellent.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: <a href="http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Pete H</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:07:49 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>lack of comments may indicate day jobs and kids<p>and Halloween.<p>
The scale here is quite interesting. The deviations from the actual temperature records could not be contained on the graph. I can not post the graph in this comment box, so please take a look at:<p>
GLOBALLY AVERAGED DEVIATIONS FROM AVERAGE TEMPERATURE PLOTTED<br>
ON A SCALE RELEVANT TO THE INDIVIDUAL STATION DEVIATIONS<br>
Per Year from 1851 to 1984<p>
contained in the following link:<p>
<a href="http://www.ecoworld.com/home/articles2.cfm?tid=404" rel="nofollow">http://www.ecoworld.com/home/articles2.cfm?tid=404</a></p></p></br></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>lack of comments may indicate day jobs and kids<p>and Halloween.<p>
The scale here is quite interesting. The deviations from the actual temperature records could not be contained on the graph. I can not post the graph in this comment box, so please take a look at:<p>
GLOBALLY AVERAGED DEVIATIONS FROM AVERAGE TEMPERATURE PLOTTED<br>
ON A SCALE RELEVANT TO THE INDIVIDUAL STATION DEVIATIONS<br>
Per Year from 1851 to 1984<p>
contained in the following link:<p>
<a href="http://www.ecoworld.com/home/articles2.cfm?tid=404" rel="nofollow">http://www.ecoworld.com/home/articles2.cfm?tid=404</a></p></p></br></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:47:38 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Yes, I just got off Halloween duty<p>Cold out there. The link you gave us had a link to the MIT homepage where I found this link:<p>
<a href="http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/survey.html" rel="nofollow">http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/survey.html<p>
Interesting, not that opinion polls make good science.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: <a href="http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com</a></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Yes, I just got off Halloween duty<p>Cold out there. The link you gave us had a link to the MIT homepage where I found this link:<p>
<a href="http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/survey.html" rel="nofollow">http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/survey.html<p>
Interesting, not that opinion polls make good science.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: <a href="http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com</a></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 02:04:23 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Unfortunatley, I am not qualified, or even<p>capable of confirming or disputing the graphs shown in that link to Eco-world. Some people have tried to attack Lindzen on the basis that energy companies have given him money. I have never cared for that.<p>
If some company wanted to pay me to express my opinions on corn ethanol, or soy based biodiesel, I might be tempted to take their money. The downside would be that I would be attacked from that point on as being a shill to whoever it was that paid me. It would not, however, mean that I was wrong.<p>
From an interview in Sciam five years ago:<p>
"Lindzen agrees with the IPCC and most other climate scientists that the world has warmed about 0.5 degree Celsius over the past 100 years or so. He agrees that human activities have increased the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere by about 30 percent. He parts company with the others when it comes to whether these facts are related. It's not that humans have no effect at all on climate. "They do," he admits, though with as much impact on the environment as when "a butterfly shuts its wings."<p>
They also mention that he is fat and smokes cigarettes...<p>
Seriously, though, here is where I would critique Lindzen. Anyone who equates the fact that we have increased CO2 content of an entire planet 30 percent and destroyed half of the forests on the same planet with the flapping of a butterfly wing has blinders on. It is hard to put stock in anything he says when he also says things that blatantly wrong. <p>
His critique of the temperature graphs chips at global warming, but is buried by coincidental evidence like melting ice shelves, disappearing glaciers, record breaking hurricane seasons, truncated cold seasons, heat waves, forest fires, drought, and deluges, which by themselves don't mean much, but collectively, are getting hard to ignore. His critique of the temperature graphs are no doubt valid, but they are also imcomplete and inadequate. The weather is changing.<p>
Also from Sciam:<p>
From the late Asimov, "When people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: <a href="http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com</a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Unfortunatley, I am not qualified, or even<p>capable of confirming or disputing the graphs shown in that link to Eco-world. Some people have tried to attack Lindzen on the basis that energy companies have given him money. I have never cared for that.<p>
If some company wanted to pay me to express my opinions on corn ethanol, or soy based biodiesel, I might be tempted to take their money. The downside would be that I would be attacked from that point on as being a shill to whoever it was that paid me. It would not, however, mean that I was wrong.<p>
From an interview in Sciam five years ago:<p>
"Lindzen agrees with the IPCC and most other climate scientists that the world has warmed about 0.5 degree Celsius over the past 100 years or so. He agrees that human activities have increased the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere by about 30 percent. He parts company with the others when it comes to whether these facts are related. It's not that humans have no effect at all on climate. "They do," he admits, though with as much impact on the environment as when "a butterfly shuts its wings."<p>
They also mention that he is fat and smokes cigarettes...<p>
Seriously, though, here is where I would critique Lindzen. Anyone who equates the fact that we have increased CO2 content of an entire planet 30 percent and destroyed half of the forests on the same planet with the flapping of a butterfly wing has blinders on. It is hard to put stock in anything he says when he also says things that blatantly wrong. <p>
His critique of the temperature graphs chips at global warming, but is buried by coincidental evidence like melting ice shelves, disappearing glaciers, record breaking hurricane seasons, truncated cold seasons, heat waves, forest fires, drought, and deluges, which by themselves don't mean much, but collectively, are getting hard to ignore. His critique of the temperature graphs are no doubt valid, but they are also imcomplete and inadequate. The weather is changing.<p>
Also from Sciam:<p>
From the late Asimov, "When people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Help acquire and protect ecological hotspots, give to a conservation organization: <a href="http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.saveourbiodiversity.com</a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Coby Beck</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 03:44:07 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>cherry picking again<p>Sorry, but <a href="http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/2006/04/warming-stopped-in-1998.html" rel="nofollow">1998 or 1995, this is still cherry picking. &nbsp;The graphs in there do not show warming has leveled off since 1995, 1995 was a good deal above the trend, not as muh as 1998, but still. &nbsp;Dr. Richard Lindzen knows better. &nbsp;He knows better about much of what he says, so he is clearly not a fair or reliable source.<p>
It is interesting to note that in 1988 when James Hansen made his famous senate appearance, Lindzen was uttering the same garbage: warming has leveled off. &nbsp;And he used the same cherry picking technique. &nbsp;Almost 20 years later now...tell me why anyone should care at all what he has to say these days?<p>
It is equally interesting to note that he makes his case on advocacy websites, op eds in the WSJ and industry sponsored conferences, but not in the peer reviewed scientific literature anymore. &nbsp;There is a reason.

<p>Invent a clever saying, and your name will live forever!

-- Anonymous</p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>cherry picking again<p>Sorry, but <a href="http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/2006/04/warming-stopped-in-1998.html" rel="nofollow">1998 or 1995, this is still cherry picking. &nbsp;The graphs in there do not show warming has leveled off since 1995, 1995 was a good deal above the trend, not as muh as 1998, but still. &nbsp;Dr. Richard Lindzen knows better. &nbsp;He knows better about much of what he says, so he is clearly not a fair or reliable source.<p>
It is interesting to note that in 1988 when James Hansen made his famous senate appearance, Lindzen was uttering the same garbage: warming has leveled off. &nbsp;And he used the same cherry picking technique. &nbsp;Almost 20 years later now...tell me why anyone should care at all what he has to say these days?<p>
It is equally interesting to note that he makes his case on advocacy websites, op eds in the WSJ and industry sponsored conferences, but not in the peer reviewed scientific literature anymore. &nbsp;There is a reason.

<p>Invent a clever saying, and your name will live forever!

-- Anonymous</p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 02:09:39 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>So What Happened During 1940 to 1980?</strong></p><p><br>
Looking at this chart closer, average temperatures after 1940 and up to 1980 were lower. &nbsp; Wasn't this one of the greatest periods of economic growth in the United States? &nbsp; &nbsp;Wasn't the period after 1980 when most of the EPA pollution controls went into effect? &nbsp; Wasn't the post-1980s the period of the Reagan Depression, downsizing, slower growth? &nbsp; Wasn't it also a time of cleaner cars, factories and more efficient (by 1940s standards) technologies?<br>


<p>The Texeme Construct offers international text memetics construction and textcasting services.</p></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>So What Happened During 1940 to 1980?</strong></p><p><br>
Looking at this chart closer, average temperatures after 1940 and up to 1980 were lower. &nbsp; Wasn't this one of the greatest periods of economic growth in the United States? &nbsp; &nbsp;Wasn't the period after 1980 when most of the EPA pollution controls went into effect? &nbsp; Wasn't the post-1980s the period of the Reagan Depression, downsizing, slower growth? &nbsp; Wasn't it also a time of cleaner cars, factories and more efficient (by 1940s standards) technologies?<br>


<p>The Texeme Construct offers international text memetics construction and textcasting services.</p></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by PBrazelton</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 03:10:50 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>I hate to do this<p>But for some reason I can't help but reply to jabailo. &nbsp;I know, I know, you feed the troll he keeps coming back for food. &nbsp;Maybe it's because I'm bored.<p>
jabailo: <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/11/4/14560/6189" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/11/4/14560/6189<p>
Feel free to search the guide before your next questions.<p>
You're welcome.</p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>I hate to do this<p>But for some reason I can't help but reply to jabailo. &nbsp;I know, I know, you feed the troll he keeps coming back for food. &nbsp;Maybe it's because I'm bored.<p>
jabailo: <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/11/4/14560/6189" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/11/4/14560/6189<p>
Feel free to search the guide before your next questions.<p>
You're welcome.</p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 02:54:19 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>So, it's really an SO2 shortage</strong></p><p>Well, there's a lot of speculation in that retort. &nbsp;You're claim is that "other gases" countervailed the effect of CO2 in the atmosphere. &nbsp;</p><p>
During this period, the CO2 warming (a smaller forcing at the time) was temporarily overwhelmed by by other factors, perhaps foremost among them an increase in human particulates and aerosol pollution. Pollution regulations and improved technology saw a decrease in this latter kind of emissions over the '60s and '70s, and as the air cleared, the CO2 signal again emerged and took over.</p><p>
Well, this raises a lot of points. &nbsp; For one thing, I don't see a lot of data on what the effect of SO2 should be. &nbsp; Other than a correlation (which doesn't imply causality) I want to know what SO2 does.</p><p>
Ok, now to the coup de gr&#226;ce. &nbsp; If what you say is true, then the real problem is not a superabundance of CO2, but a lack of SO2. &nbsp; We are not so much facing high CO2 levels, but a dearth of natural SO2. &nbsp; &nbsp;If we want to solve this problem, we need to look into the geothermic processes that would normally be creating the vast amounts of SO2 needed to regular our planets temperature.</p><p>
Last point, I really think that all this data, with is multivariate gases and particulates points more towards the cosmic ray thesis of Hans Svensmark, more than any anthropogenic theory.

<p>The Texeme Construct offers international text memetics construction and textcasting services.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>So, it's really an SO2 shortage</strong></p><p>Well, there's a lot of speculation in that retort. &nbsp;You're claim is that "other gases" countervailed the effect of CO2 in the atmosphere. &nbsp;</p><p>
During this period, the CO2 warming (a smaller forcing at the time) was temporarily overwhelmed by by other factors, perhaps foremost among them an increase in human particulates and aerosol pollution. Pollution regulations and improved technology saw a decrease in this latter kind of emissions over the '60s and '70s, and as the air cleared, the CO2 signal again emerged and took over.</p><p>
Well, this raises a lot of points. &nbsp; For one thing, I don't see a lot of data on what the effect of SO2 should be. &nbsp; Other than a correlation (which doesn't imply causality) I want to know what SO2 does.</p><p>
Ok, now to the coup de gr&#226;ce. &nbsp; If what you say is true, then the real problem is not a superabundance of CO2, but a lack of SO2. &nbsp; We are not so much facing high CO2 levels, but a dearth of natural SO2. &nbsp; &nbsp;If we want to solve this problem, we need to look into the geothermic processes that would normally be creating the vast amounts of SO2 needed to regular our planets temperature.</p><p>
Last point, I really think that all this data, with is multivariate gases and particulates points more towards the cosmic ray thesis of Hans Svensmark, more than any anthropogenic theory.

<p>The Texeme Construct offers international text memetics construction and textcasting services.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by atreyger</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 05:55:57 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Jabailo</strong></p><p>I think I'm also bored and like procrastination. SO2 (sulfate aerosols) and aerosols cool the atmosphere, because they dissipate incoming solar radiation via increased albedo. </p><p>
SO2 aerosol is produced by burning coal, and in many industrial processes, as well as by volcano eruptions. While the latter occurs naturally, none of the above are a positive from a human-based point of view. </p><p>
Sulfates were the leading cause of acid rain, which damages infrastructure, and agricultural and natural ecosystem productivity. For example, many lakes in the Adirondacks became abiotic (ain't nothing living there) and forest productivity declined and tree mortality increased as a result of sulfate-driven acid rain. It also creates major health problems downwind (asthma, etc.) when present as an aerosol. </p><p>
All of the above were caused by persistent sulfate outputs at coal burning plants and other industrial activities, which is what caused the EPA to regulate it through a cap-and-trade scheme. This is why the temperature remained stable during increased industrial activity post WWII.</p><p>
I can find a bunch of citations, but do not see the need for it as the above is well established in the literature.</p><p>
Transmission out.</p>
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				<p><strong>Jabailo</strong></p><p>I think I'm also bored and like procrastination. SO2 (sulfate aerosols) and aerosols cool the atmosphere, because they dissipate incoming solar radiation via increased albedo. </p><p>
SO2 aerosol is produced by burning coal, and in many industrial processes, as well as by volcano eruptions. While the latter occurs naturally, none of the above are a positive from a human-based point of view. </p><p>
Sulfates were the leading cause of acid rain, which damages infrastructure, and agricultural and natural ecosystem productivity. For example, many lakes in the Adirondacks became abiotic (ain't nothing living there) and forest productivity declined and tree mortality increased as a result of sulfate-driven acid rain. It also creates major health problems downwind (asthma, etc.) when present as an aerosol. </p><p>
All of the above were caused by persistent sulfate outputs at coal burning plants and other industrial activities, which is what caused the EPA to regulate it through a cap-and-trade scheme. This is why the temperature remained stable during increased industrial activity post WWII.</p><p>
I can find a bunch of citations, but do not see the need for it as the above is well established in the literature.</p><p>
Transmission out.</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by meb</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 20:48:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>this is not decisive</strong></p><p>Sorry for my english, but this page does not provide any evidence.</p><p>
If all years since 1916 have been warmer, that only means that 1916 was a cold record<br>
If all years since 1956 have been warmer, that means 1956 was the second cold record since 1916<br>
The same for 1976 and 1992.</p><p>
We can use this argument to say that if 2005 is a warm record (and one can argue that one year is not a trend), it means that the precedent record was some years ago (I read 1998 somewhere). Then if we are in 2004, we can reasonnably say that <br>
"each year since 1998 have been colder" and conclude there is a "global colding".</p><p>
So this page means nothing (according to me)</br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>this is not decisive</strong></p><p>Sorry for my english, but this page does not provide any evidence.</p><p>
If all years since 1916 have been warmer, that only means that 1916 was a cold record<br>
If all years since 1956 have been warmer, that means 1956 was the second cold record since 1916<br>
The same for 1976 and 1992.</p><p>
We can use this argument to say that if 2005 is a warm record (and one can argue that one year is not a trend), it means that the precedent record was some years ago (I read 1998 somewhere). Then if we are in 2004, we can reasonnably say that <br>
"each year since 1998 have been colder" and conclude there is a "global colding".</p><p>
So this page means nothing (according to me)</br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by Coby Beck</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 03:47:51 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>more cherry picking</strong></p><p>meb,</p><p>
You are correct about the evidential strength of the two facts you quoted. &nbsp;But why do you ignore the fact of the ten hottest years on record in the last fifteen, and the others? &nbsp;And how can you look at the graph and still claim there is no conclusive trend?</p><p>
Only one way: being in denial of an obvious reality.

<p>"What if this weren't a hypothetical question?"
-- unknown</p></p>
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				<p><strong>more cherry picking</strong></p><p>meb,</p><p>
You are correct about the evidential strength of the two facts you quoted. &nbsp;But why do you ignore the fact of the ten hottest years on record in the last fifteen, and the others? &nbsp;And how can you look at the graph and still claim there is no conclusive trend?</p><p>
Only one way: being in denial of an obvious reality.

<p>"What if this weren't a hypothetical question?"
-- unknown</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by goldfighter3</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 16:50:52 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>seriously</strong></p><p>do you really think that they just picked a cooler year in 1916? if they did, and all this data doesnt show warming, then what happened to all the really cold years these past 89 years? surely by now we would have had a colder year than in 1918. </p><p>
also, if your theory is to be believed, then why couldnt they find any colder years since then, to use for their values in 1956, 1976, and 1992? even if they are picking the coldest years, then the coldest years are getting warmer as well arent they? and what does that mean? warming.</p><p>
and lets not forget the really good graph provided, not to mention the 20 hottest years in the last 25. </p>
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				<p><strong>seriously</strong></p><p>do you really think that they just picked a cooler year in 1916? if they did, and all this data doesnt show warming, then what happened to all the really cold years these past 89 years? surely by now we would have had a colder year than in 1918. </p><p>
also, if your theory is to be believed, then why couldnt they find any colder years since then, to use for their values in 1956, 1976, and 1992? even if they are picking the coldest years, then the coldest years are getting warmer as well arent they? and what does that mean? warming.</p><p>
and lets not forget the really good graph provided, not to mention the 20 hottest years in the last 25. </p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by mattfitz</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 00:09:59 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Compelling, but...</strong></p><p>The graph sure does show a warming trend, but am I the only person who sees that it defines 120 years out of a couple billion? On that scale I bet you could find a proportional increase in the stock market on Black Monday. I'm worried that the science of global warming - particularly of the man-made variety - is not up for debate in the average citizens' minds. The force of popularization is turning this into an 1800s-style witch hunt for non-believers.<br>
That said, I am one who believes strongly in local and sustainable agriculture, and minimizing my negative impact on the environment. But let's not kid ourselves: producing one million Priuses and maintaining the roads on which they drive is not exactly "green living." It's like trying to cure obesity with a pill or low-fat versions of food. Obesity will be cured by changing habits and lifestyle.<br>
Matt</br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Compelling, but...</strong></p><p>The graph sure does show a warming trend, but am I the only person who sees that it defines 120 years out of a couple billion? On that scale I bet you could find a proportional increase in the stock market on Black Monday. I'm worried that the science of global warming - particularly of the man-made variety - is not up for debate in the average citizens' minds. The force of popularization is turning this into an 1800s-style witch hunt for non-believers.<br>
That said, I am one who believes strongly in local and sustainable agriculture, and minimizing my negative impact on the environment. But let's not kid ourselves: producing one million Priuses and maintaining the roads on which they drive is not exactly "green living." It's like trying to cure obesity with a pill or low-fat versions of food. Obesity will be cured by changing habits and lifestyle.<br>
Matt</br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by stoffer70</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 04:06:10 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/14</guid>
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				<p><strong>AGW is total crap!</strong></p><p>Your narrow-minded morons! There is no anthropogenic warming. There probably isn't even a natural climate change underway quite yet, and CO2 will have nothing to do with anything! It is insignificant in absolutely ALL respects, expect that small increases (like 30%) have HUGE positive impacts on plants ability to photosynthesize.</p><p>
Anyway, I wont go in the jillions of hard core facts I have that all point AWAY from CO2 as a cause, driver or even a contributor to climate "change" (just like the quadrillion of facts that all point AWAY from there being any god(s) in this universe, yet ignorami continue to believe...familiar scenario isn't it?)</p><p>
I just want to put up a challenge in the form of a BET with anyone who's interested:</p><p>
I will bet you $100,adjusted for inflation, that the average yearly temperature 20 years from now (2027) will be SIGNIFICANTLY COLDER than the same average for 2005 (or any year between 1900-1940 or 1980-2007). Any takers?</p><p>
I wonder if you will still insist that AGW is just around the corner when you fork over your money to &nbsp;me? Probably. Once ignorant and easily swayed, always so...

<p>- Anthropogenic Global Warming is the name of a evil, moralistic DoomsDay Cult with gullible scared morons as members. Shame on you!</p></p>
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				<p><strong>AGW is total crap!</strong></p><p>Your narrow-minded morons! There is no anthropogenic warming. There probably isn't even a natural climate change underway quite yet, and CO2 will have nothing to do with anything! It is insignificant in absolutely ALL respects, expect that small increases (like 30%) have HUGE positive impacts on plants ability to photosynthesize.</p><p>
Anyway, I wont go in the jillions of hard core facts I have that all point AWAY from CO2 as a cause, driver or even a contributor to climate "change" (just like the quadrillion of facts that all point AWAY from there being any god(s) in this universe, yet ignorami continue to believe...familiar scenario isn't it?)</p><p>
I just want to put up a challenge in the form of a BET with anyone who's interested:</p><p>
I will bet you $100,adjusted for inflation, that the average yearly temperature 20 years from now (2027) will be SIGNIFICANTLY COLDER than the same average for 2005 (or any year between 1900-1940 or 1980-2007). Any takers?</p><p>
I wonder if you will still insist that AGW is just around the corner when you fork over your money to &nbsp;me? Probably. Once ignorant and easily swayed, always so...

<p>- Anthropogenic Global Warming is the name of a evil, moralistic DoomsDay Cult with gullible scared morons as members. Shame on you!</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by gbin2000</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 00:04:21 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Cycles</strong></p><p>EVERYTHING in nature is cycles: day/night, seasons, death/life. Can't we accept this is a NORMAL cycle? How else can you explain oil at the north pole? At one time is was very warm there, right? </p>
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				<p><strong>Cycles</strong></p><p>EVERYTHING in nature is cycles: day/night, seasons, death/life. Can't we accept this is a NORMAL cycle? How else can you explain oil at the north pole? At one time is was very warm there, right? </p>
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            <title>Comment #16 by barrygillis</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:00:06 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Ill take it!</strong></p><p>Ill take that bet but i think its not enough i would like to make the bet a little more interesting, say 1000 but if you want to raise it thats cool too.</p>
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				<p><strong>Ill take it!</strong></p><p>Ill take that bet but i think its not enough i would like to make the bet a little more interesting, say 1000 but if you want to raise it thats cool too.</p>
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            <title>Comment #17 by barrygillis</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:06:48 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>How about...</strong></p><p>..continental drift ,if you know how long it takes for oil to form and if you know that continental plates move around its unlikely the land under the poles was there hundreds of millions years ago.<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>How about...</strong></p><p>..continental drift ,if you know how long it takes for oil to form and if you know that continental plates move around its unlikely the land under the poles was there hundreds of millions years ago.<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #18 by GlobalWarmingInc</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 02:25:57 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>IPCC is bunk<p>&nbsp;I keep seeing references to IPCC graphs,studies, charts and generally accepted "facts" here. Most posters toss out IPCC references like they're &nbsp;all 100% true and proven... &nbsp;when they're not.<p>
<a href="http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/04/19/ipcc-challenged-to-recant-global-warming-position/" rel="nofollow">http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/04/19/ipcc-challenged-to-re ...<p>
<a href="http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/04/world-temperatures-keep-falling-while.html" rel="nofollow">http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/04/world-temperatur ...<p>
<a href="http://globalwarmingnot.blogtownhall.com/2008/03/08/greenhouse_gas_equation_wrong.thtml" rel="nofollow">http://globalwarmingnot.blogtownhall.com/2008/03/08/green ...</a></p></a></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>IPCC is bunk<p>&nbsp;I keep seeing references to IPCC graphs,studies, charts and generally accepted "facts" here. Most posters toss out IPCC references like they're &nbsp;all 100% true and proven... &nbsp;when they're not.<p>
<a href="http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/04/19/ipcc-challenged-to-recant-global-warming-position/" rel="nofollow">http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/04/19/ipcc-challenged-to-re ...<p>
<a href="http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/04/world-temperatures-keep-falling-while.html" rel="nofollow">http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/04/world-temperatur ...<p>
<a href="http://globalwarmingnot.blogtownhall.com/2008/03/08/greenhouse_gas_equation_wrong.thtml" rel="nofollow">http://globalwarmingnot.blogtownhall.com/2008/03/08/green ...</a></p></a></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #19 by GlobalWarmingInc</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/one-record-year-is-not-global-warming/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 04:32:53 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>And to add:<p>CO2 constitutes less than 0.04% of the atmosphere. How can anyone believe that an increase from 0.036% to 0.037%, for example, could possibly increase air temperature? CO2 is supposed to heat the ground by re-emitting radiation it has absorbed. The idea that individual CO2 molecules can actually radiate enough energy to heat anything sounds so ridiculous that it's hard to understand how any logical person could believe it.<p>
from here: &nbsp;<a href="http://globalwarmingnot.blogtownhall.com/2008/02/16/global_warming_isnt_science.thtml" rel="nofollow">http://globalwarmingnot.blogtownhall.com/2008/02/16/globa ...<p>
And from what I learned in 6th grade Biology (maybe earlier than that), CO2 helps plants, so an increase would just benefit plant-life on this planet. When did CO2 get the bad rap like the Taliban? Are we now hunting down Carbona-Bin-Dioxide declaring war on CO2?</p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>And to add:<p>CO2 constitutes less than 0.04% of the atmosphere. How can anyone believe that an increase from 0.036% to 0.037%, for example, could possibly increase air temperature? CO2 is supposed to heat the ground by re-emitting radiation it has absorbed. The idea that individual CO2 molecules can actually radiate enough energy to heat anything sounds so ridiculous that it's hard to understand how any logical person could believe it.<p>
from here: &nbsp;<a href="http://globalwarmingnot.blogtownhall.com/2008/02/16/global_warming_isnt_science.thtml" rel="nofollow">http://globalwarmingnot.blogtownhall.com/2008/02/16/globa ...<p>
And from what I learned in 6th grade Biology (maybe earlier than that), CO2 helps plants, so an increase would just benefit plant-life on this planet. When did CO2 get the bad rap like the Taliban? Are we now hunting down Carbona-Bin-Dioxide declaring war on CO2?</p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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