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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Gray skies loom over Beijing as Chinese officials announce emergency air-pollution measures]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Gustavion</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/olympic-trials-air-air-everywhere-and-not-a-bit-to-breathe/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 04:18:55 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Extreme<p>They sure are going to extremes to reduce the pollution. &nbsp;There's been so much press on the issue, it seems like there pollution problems have just been highlighted more now than if they just didn't do anything.

<p><a href="http://www.simplestop.net" rel="nofollow"> Simplestop.net  - Stop postal junk mail, Protect the environment, Protect your identity.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Extreme<p>They sure are going to extremes to reduce the pollution. &nbsp;There's been so much press on the issue, it seems like there pollution problems have just been highlighted more now than if they just didn't do anything.

<p><a href="http://www.simplestop.net" rel="nofollow"> Simplestop.net  - Stop postal junk mail, Protect the environment, Protect your identity.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/olympic-trials-air-air-everywhere-and-not-a-bit-to-breathe/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:13:44 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>&quot;China bashing&quot;</strong></p><p>It is certainly true that we do good to the Chinese people, to all the living creatures in China, and to everybody everywhere, to bring attention to environmental problems in that country.</p><p>
And yet, in the latest Newsweek, the China scholar Orville Schell cautions us, with the counsel that any criticism of China right now is going to backfire.</p><p>
I for my part am already miserable for having inadvertently driven away our excellent, knowledgeable and beloved correspondent, Patrick in Beijing, perhaps because I offended him, or perhaps because I included links to Tiananmen Square and Tibet in something I posted in response to his own comment.</p><p>
So, even though it feels very creepy and un-American, we are advised to lie low, for a month.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>&quot;China bashing&quot;</strong></p><p>It is certainly true that we do good to the Chinese people, to all the living creatures in China, and to everybody everywhere, to bring attention to environmental problems in that country.</p><p>
And yet, in the latest Newsweek, the China scholar Orville Schell cautions us, with the counsel that any criticism of China right now is going to backfire.</p><p>
I for my part am already miserable for having inadvertently driven away our excellent, knowledgeable and beloved correspondent, Patrick in Beijing, perhaps because I offended him, or perhaps because I included links to Tiananmen Square and Tibet in something I posted in response to his own comment.</p><p>
So, even though it feels very creepy and un-American, we are advised to lie low, for a month.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/olympic-trials-air-air-everywhere-and-not-a-bit-to-breathe/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:33:56 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Can't Agree, Canis</strong></p><p>While Americans can't lecture anyone else without being at least somewhat hypocritical, the massive ecological destruction that has been taking place in China over the past two or three decades is huge and should not be ignored or suffered in silence.</p><p>
But from an athlete's perspective, China was a horrible choice for the Olympics. &nbsp;It would be an incredibly difficult decision, but if I qualified to participate, I'm almost positive I'd have to decline because of the disgustingly filthy air. &nbsp;Unfortunately, big decisions like this are not made for logical reasons, but for money, advertising, and in this case PR. &nbsp;While the Olympics themselves cause plenty of pollution and environmental destruction just by their taking place, holding them in a city where one can barely breathe because of pollution is ludicrous.</p>
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				<p><strong>Can't Agree, Canis</strong></p><p>While Americans can't lecture anyone else without being at least somewhat hypocritical, the massive ecological destruction that has been taking place in China over the past two or three decades is huge and should not be ignored or suffered in silence.</p><p>
But from an athlete's perspective, China was a horrible choice for the Olympics. &nbsp;It would be an incredibly difficult decision, but if I qualified to participate, I'm almost positive I'd have to decline because of the disgustingly filthy air. &nbsp;Unfortunately, big decisions like this are not made for logical reasons, but for money, advertising, and in this case PR. &nbsp;While the Olympics themselves cause plenty of pollution and environmental destruction just by their taking place, holding them in a city where one can barely breathe because of pollution is ludicrous.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by planetthoughts</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/olympic-trials-air-air-everywhere-and-not-a-bit-to-breathe/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:24:02 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Head for the hills!<p>It seems that the Chinese government should order the entire city of Beijing abandoned except for bus and taxi drivers needed for the Olympics. &nbsp;The citizens of Beijing, as loyal citizens, should be happy to live in tents, or in open fields full of nature, until the Olympics are over. &nbsp;That kind of action could possibly clear the air in time for the Olympics on August 8th.<p>
This would also demonstrate the true nobility of the Chinese government, pulling its citizens away from the dangerous environment in Beijing, while providing a safe atmosphere for their foreign guests! &nbsp;True citizens of China would be glad to sacrifice themselves for the good of the country!

<p>David Alexander<br>
<a href="http://www.planetthoughts.org" rel="nofollow">PlanetThoughts.org<br>
Love your Planet.</br></a></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Head for the hills!<p>It seems that the Chinese government should order the entire city of Beijing abandoned except for bus and taxi drivers needed for the Olympics. &nbsp;The citizens of Beijing, as loyal citizens, should be happy to live in tents, or in open fields full of nature, until the Olympics are over. &nbsp;That kind of action could possibly clear the air in time for the Olympics on August 8th.<p>
This would also demonstrate the true nobility of the Chinese government, pulling its citizens away from the dangerous environment in Beijing, while providing a safe atmosphere for their foreign guests! &nbsp;True citizens of China would be glad to sacrifice themselves for the good of the country!

<p>David Alexander<br>
<a href="http://www.planetthoughts.org" rel="nofollow">PlanetThoughts.org<br>
Love your Planet.</br></a></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by archigeek</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/olympic-trials-air-air-everywhere-and-not-a-bit-to-breathe/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 00:39:14 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>cough...</strong></p><p>Corporations have basically "exported" the pollution the US and Europe have been trying--with good success--to suppress for the last 50 yrs. What you see in China is a result of little or no laws governing emissions. If China does have laws on the books governing idustrial pollutants, they should enforce them. What, you say, that would increase the cost of production? That protecting the health of its citizens may lead to a flood of manufacturing and capital leaving the country because of the expense of running a clean operation? That investors and corporations(and apparently the Chinese government)don't give a rats patoot about human life and would rather naw off their left arms than submit to greater controls, lest their profit margins go down? Yeah, it's a damn shame what's happening to capitalists. I mean really, everybody has to die sometime, right? If you go from industrial toxins or a heart attack, what's the dif? Seriously, folks, if fekking China can't stand a little criricism about providing a healthy environment for the athletes--much less its own citizens--it shouldn't have applied for the Games. Whining, insecure, xenophobic creeps. 

<p>The mellotron is your friend.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>cough...</strong></p><p>Corporations have basically "exported" the pollution the US and Europe have been trying--with good success--to suppress for the last 50 yrs. What you see in China is a result of little or no laws governing emissions. If China does have laws on the books governing idustrial pollutants, they should enforce them. What, you say, that would increase the cost of production? That protecting the health of its citizens may lead to a flood of manufacturing and capital leaving the country because of the expense of running a clean operation? That investors and corporations(and apparently the Chinese government)don't give a rats patoot about human life and would rather naw off their left arms than submit to greater controls, lest their profit margins go down? Yeah, it's a damn shame what's happening to capitalists. I mean really, everybody has to die sometime, right? If you go from industrial toxins or a heart attack, what's the dif? Seriously, folks, if fekking China can't stand a little criricism about providing a healthy environment for the athletes--much less its own citizens--it shouldn't have applied for the Games. Whining, insecure, xenophobic creeps. 

<p>The mellotron is your friend.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/olympic-trials-air-air-everywhere-and-not-a-bit-to-breathe/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 04:18:32 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Exporting Pollution</strong></p><p>Archigeek is right, but keep in mind that China is not some small, militarily weak country on which the current industrialization was forced. &nbsp;Its leaders have aggressively pursued this and have publicly said that the economy is more important than the environment. &nbsp;Well, at least they were honest.</p>
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				<p><strong>Exporting Pollution</strong></p><p>Archigeek is right, but keep in mind that China is not some small, militarily weak country on which the current industrialization was forced. &nbsp;Its leaders have aggressively pursued this and have publicly said that the economy is more important than the environment. &nbsp;Well, at least they were honest.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/olympic-trials-air-air-everywhere-and-not-a-bit-to-breathe/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:07:03 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>the Coleridge reference; China again<p>The famous lines from the famous Romantic narrative poem, "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner," by Samuel Coleridge, lie behind Sara Barz's clever title:<p>
<a href="http://www.bartleby.com/59/6/waterwaterev.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bartleby.com/59/6/waterwaterev.html<p>
Notice that Coleridge's exclamation is often misremembered as "... and not a drop to drink," when in fact he wrote, "nor any drop to drink."<p>
In her adaptation of the first half of the exclamation, Sara made the happy discovery of "Air, air, everywhere," which is both triply alliterative and rhyming, and therefore more pleasing, sound-wise, than Coleridge's original.<p>
Wolverine,<br>
there is nothing substantial that we disagree on here. &nbsp;In fact, somewhere recently in the NYTimes there was something about the Kenyan marathon-runner who won the gold medal in 2004, refusing this time to compete in the marathon this time (he will run something shorter), for fear that the pollution will harm his lungs -- which means that that event, the marathon, will now be besmirched, or even falsified, because the man to beat will be bowing out.<p>
And God protect all the competitors in water events, who have to deal with that dangerously polluted waterway! &nbsp;I happen to be rooting for the Canadian kayaker, Adam van Koeverden, the Canadian team's flag-bearer. &nbsp;He apparently is under terrific pressure to compete and win (again), so he will not back out -- but I certainly hope no harm comes to him.<p>
On the basis of what we have read in Western journalism, Archigeek's impressive phrase, "whining, insecure, xenophobic creeps," seems quite justifiable. &nbsp;Patrick-in-Beijing would pooh-pooh that, were he still with us; and he might even point out that the same expression could easily be applied to far too many Americans. &nbsp;E.g., does anyone dare say the truth, that the sub-adolescent chanting of "USA! USA! USA!" is a kind of craven whining?; or that holding a presidential candidate in disdain for not wearing a flag-pin is surely a sign of insecurity?<p>
And then, "The Simpsons" being so often a perfect mirror of what makes this beloved republic of ours so weird, consider what underlies the humor of that episode, when the Soccer World Cup is being played in the Springfield stadium, and the announcer makes the pre-game thrilling announcement, "We shall learn by the outcome of this game, which is the greatest country in the world!: Portugal!, or, Mexico!" &nbsp;Yes, whining, insecure, paranoid xenophobia is certainly present within our borders.<p>
But all I was saying earlier was to repeat the advice of some experts, who tell us that critical statements by Westerners of the Chinese government will be received by most of the Chinese people as unacceptable insults, with the result that nothing good will be accomplished. &nbsp;I do not necessarily endorse that position; and like you and Archigeek, I find the current situation to be intolerably ticklish. &nbsp;Nevertheless, let us try to be patient, and think deeply about what our best course is, to express our concerns regarding all kinds of violations of human rights, as well as neglect of environmental problems.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p></p></p></p></br></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>the Coleridge reference; China again<p>The famous lines from the famous Romantic narrative poem, "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner," by Samuel Coleridge, lie behind Sara Barz's clever title:<p>
<a href="http://www.bartleby.com/59/6/waterwaterev.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bartleby.com/59/6/waterwaterev.html<p>
Notice that Coleridge's exclamation is often misremembered as "... and not a drop to drink," when in fact he wrote, "nor any drop to drink."<p>
In her adaptation of the first half of the exclamation, Sara made the happy discovery of "Air, air, everywhere," which is both triply alliterative and rhyming, and therefore more pleasing, sound-wise, than Coleridge's original.<p>
Wolverine,<br>
there is nothing substantial that we disagree on here. &nbsp;In fact, somewhere recently in the NYTimes there was something about the Kenyan marathon-runner who won the gold medal in 2004, refusing this time to compete in the marathon this time (he will run something shorter), for fear that the pollution will harm his lungs -- which means that that event, the marathon, will now be besmirched, or even falsified, because the man to beat will be bowing out.<p>
And God protect all the competitors in water events, who have to deal with that dangerously polluted waterway! &nbsp;I happen to be rooting for the Canadian kayaker, Adam van Koeverden, the Canadian team's flag-bearer. &nbsp;He apparently is under terrific pressure to compete and win (again), so he will not back out -- but I certainly hope no harm comes to him.<p>
On the basis of what we have read in Western journalism, Archigeek's impressive phrase, "whining, insecure, xenophobic creeps," seems quite justifiable. &nbsp;Patrick-in-Beijing would pooh-pooh that, were he still with us; and he might even point out that the same expression could easily be applied to far too many Americans. &nbsp;E.g., does anyone dare say the truth, that the sub-adolescent chanting of "USA! USA! USA!" is a kind of craven whining?; or that holding a presidential candidate in disdain for not wearing a flag-pin is surely a sign of insecurity?<p>
And then, "The Simpsons" being so often a perfect mirror of what makes this beloved republic of ours so weird, consider what underlies the humor of that episode, when the Soccer World Cup is being played in the Springfield stadium, and the announcer makes the pre-game thrilling announcement, "We shall learn by the outcome of this game, which is the greatest country in the world!: Portugal!, or, Mexico!" &nbsp;Yes, whining, insecure, paranoid xenophobia is certainly present within our borders.<p>
But all I was saying earlier was to repeat the advice of some experts, who tell us that critical statements by Westerners of the Chinese government will be received by most of the Chinese people as unacceptable insults, with the result that nothing good will be accomplished. &nbsp;I do not necessarily endorse that position; and like you and Archigeek, I find the current situation to be intolerably ticklish. &nbsp;Nevertheless, let us try to be patient, and think deeply about what our best course is, to express our concerns regarding all kinds of violations of human rights, as well as neglect of environmental problems.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p></p></p></p></br></p></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/olympic-trials-air-air-everywhere-and-not-a-bit-to-breathe/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 04:36:03 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Right, Canis</strong></p><p>I too oppose insulting others when those insults will be counterproductive. &nbsp;But there are far more effective methods of opposing China's massive environmental destruction, such as cessation of consumption of needless crap, almost all of which is now made in China. &nbsp;This would, of course, have the added benefit of addressing one of the physical roots of all environmental problems. &nbsp;But I guess hoping for significant mental and spiritual evolution by humans is asking too much. &nbsp;Sigh.</p>
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				<p><strong>Right, Canis</strong></p><p>I too oppose insulting others when those insults will be counterproductive. &nbsp;But there are far more effective methods of opposing China's massive environmental destruction, such as cessation of consumption of needless crap, almost all of which is now made in China. &nbsp;This would, of course, have the added benefit of addressing one of the physical roots of all environmental problems. &nbsp;But I guess hoping for significant mental and spiritual evolution by humans is asking too much. &nbsp;Sigh.</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by tui3</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/olympic-trials-air-air-everywhere-and-not-a-bit-to-breathe/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 10:08:10 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>How can we help China - options?</strong></p><p>I appreciate the comments above about harsh criticism not being very acceptable in China. I think that it is not their way - they may prefer respectful suggestions. (And so would I if I was receiving them.) So how can we best help them with the pollution problem? &nbsp;Perhaps the West can offer some of its people (as appropriate) to assist the Chinese officials?</p><p>
In the longer term, I agree with other posters above that Western consumption of manufactured goods must decrease. I think that we in the West must find other ways to happiness than buying goods, a very high percentage of which only end up in landfills anyway. I think that Reverend Billy and the Church of Stop Shopping are helping to spread a very important message. In their film "What Would Jesus Buy?", Professor Bill McKibben says:</p><p>
"In a hundred years Americans will find another way to have fun besides shopping. My worry is that we won't have time to evolve these changes at the usual rate - by then we will derail the earth's systems, especially its climate."</p>
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				<p><strong>How can we help China - options?</strong></p><p>I appreciate the comments above about harsh criticism not being very acceptable in China. I think that it is not their way - they may prefer respectful suggestions. (And so would I if I was receiving them.) So how can we best help them with the pollution problem? &nbsp;Perhaps the West can offer some of its people (as appropriate) to assist the Chinese officials?</p><p>
In the longer term, I agree with other posters above that Western consumption of manufactured goods must decrease. I think that we in the West must find other ways to happiness than buying goods, a very high percentage of which only end up in landfills anyway. I think that Reverend Billy and the Church of Stop Shopping are helping to spread a very important message. In their film "What Would Jesus Buy?", Professor Bill McKibben says:</p><p>
"In a hundred years Americans will find another way to have fun besides shopping. My worry is that we won't have time to evolve these changes at the usual rate - by then we will derail the earth's systems, especially its climate."</p>
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