<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Or just a distraction]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/ Sat, 03 Feb 2007 08:59:10 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/1 All carbon offset schemes are not created equal.

Some will work better than others. Time will tell if the entire idea is untenable, but it is an idea that has to be tested, not argued away. Had anyone listened to my arguments that the home personal computer would eventually morph into game machines and word processors, we wouldn't be having this argument. At least I was half right. It holds promise as a means of preserving what remains of our tropical rainforest carbon sinks.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> All carbon offset schemes are not created equal.

Some will work better than others. Time will tell if the entire idea is untenable, but it is an idea that has to be tested, not argued away. Had anyone listened to my arguments that the home personal computer would eventually morph into game machines and word processors, we wouldn't be having this argument. At least I was half right. It holds promise as a means of preserving what remains of our tropical rainforest carbon sinks.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #2 by Gar Lipow http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/ Sun, 04 Feb 2007 02:17:56 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/2 tested

>Time will tell if the entire idea is untenable, but it is an idea that has to be tested, not argued away.

You mean like palm oil for cars? Because offsets have been tested since before 1994.

An in terms of tropical carbon sinks, records of sattelite figures have shown that most tree plantations replace natural rain forests.

]]> tested

>Time will tell if the entire idea is untenable, but it is an idea that has to be tested, not argued away.

You mean like palm oil for cars? Because offsets have been tested since before 1994.

An in terms of tropical carbon sinks, records of sattelite figures have shown that most tree plantations replace natural rain forests.

]]> Comment #3 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/ Sun, 04 Feb 2007 03:43:48 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/3 Miniscule

Aren't carbon offsets as they now exist a microscopic blip on the global climate disaster radar?  Merely a publicity mechanism rather than a practical approach?

They make people feel good about becoming environmentally aware and responsible, when in reality without direct local political action the staus quo will surely continue unabated.

As with charity giving, it seems that fraud might be a big problem with offsets too.  Is any independent group monitering these organizations?

On the other hand the solar renewable energy  credits (SREC) mentioned in this NJ homeowner's blog about his solar system yielded him a premium of around 18 cents per kwh for his solar generated electricity!

http://msmith.typepad.com/smithelectricco/

"Our Sa ...

 ...there is an ongoing state by state debate on who gets these, the utility or the homeowner or business generating the clean electricity.

I think this is fertile ground to sprout energy policy planks for state party platforms and also renewable energy referenda on state and local ballots.

If groups like Terrapass bought these SREC, would that take care of any uncertainties with tree planting and other hard to moniter plans?  Then people could buy their offsets exclusively from orgs that buy SREC and rightly feel their purchase makes environmental and economic sense.

If the organization payed for its overhead from donations, so that all the money to purchase offsets went into SREC, there would be less of a chance of fraud.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Miniscule

Aren't carbon offsets as they now exist a microscopic blip on the global climate disaster radar?  Merely a publicity mechanism rather than a practical approach?

They make people feel good about becoming environmentally aware and responsible, when in reality without direct local political action the staus quo will surely continue unabated.

As with charity giving, it seems that fraud might be a big problem with offsets too.  Is any independent group monitering these organizations?

On the other hand the solar renewable energy  credits (SREC) mentioned in this NJ homeowner's blog about his solar system yielded him a premium of around 18 cents per kwh for his solar generated electricity!

http://msmith.typepad.com/smithelectricco/

"Our Sa ...

 ...there is an ongoing state by state debate on who gets these, the utility or the homeowner or business generating the clean electricity.

I think this is fertile ground to sprout energy policy planks for state party platforms and also renewable energy referenda on state and local ballots.

If groups like Terrapass bought these SREC, would that take care of any uncertainties with tree planting and other hard to moniter plans?  Then people could buy their offsets exclusively from orgs that buy SREC and rightly feel their purchase makes environmental and economic sense.

If the organization payed for its overhead from donations, so that all the money to purchase offsets went into SREC, there would be less of a chance of fraud.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #4 by Biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/ Sun, 04 Feb 2007 04:21:27 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/4 Gar, I think I asked you this once before,

but don't recall if you attempted an answer. How would you propose we stop deforestation of the tropics and its huge impact on global warming and biodiversity loss?

Converting them all into food and fuel mono crops has one fatal flaw. Although it is quite possible that tree plantations can become carbon sinks equivalent in capacity to the forests they replaced, if that were all that mattered, we should replace all intact ecosystems with crops that rapidly absorb CO2. The end result being the destruction of a diverse, intricate life giving biosphere. The same result we are hoping to avert by stopping global warming--robbing Peter to pay Paul.

A future whee humanity finally converts the whole planet into a mono crop biofuel and food farm and successfully keeps the whole planet's biosphere in perfect balance without any need for forests, insects, or any other life form other than those we eat is not going to happen. We find solutions that keep most of this biosphere intact or we face a future on a planet that bears little resemblance to anything we evolved to live on.

We have finally hit that limit that so many have warned about where we irreparably damage our biosphere to the point that it suddenly unravels out from under us. Solutions that accelerate that unraveling must be discarded. It may prove out that carbon offsets of any kind won't work, but I would like the free market to tell me that and it needs time to flush workable schemes out. The jury is still out on this issue. Critique is all important and should continue.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Gar, I think I asked you this once before,

but don't recall if you attempted an answer. How would you propose we stop deforestation of the tropics and its huge impact on global warming and biodiversity loss?

Converting them all into food and fuel mono crops has one fatal flaw. Although it is quite possible that tree plantations can become carbon sinks equivalent in capacity to the forests they replaced, if that were all that mattered, we should replace all intact ecosystems with crops that rapidly absorb CO2. The end result being the destruction of a diverse, intricate life giving biosphere. The same result we are hoping to avert by stopping global warming--robbing Peter to pay Paul.

A future whee humanity finally converts the whole planet into a mono crop biofuel and food farm and successfully keeps the whole planet's biosphere in perfect balance without any need for forests, insects, or any other life form other than those we eat is not going to happen. We find solutions that keep most of this biosphere intact or we face a future on a planet that bears little resemblance to anything we evolved to live on.

We have finally hit that limit that so many have warned about where we irreparably damage our biosphere to the point that it suddenly unravels out from under us. Solutions that accelerate that unraveling must be discarded. It may prove out that carbon offsets of any kind won't work, but I would like the free market to tell me that and it needs time to flush workable schemes out. The jury is still out on this issue. Critique is all important and should continue.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #5 by Gar Lipow http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/ Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:45:10 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/5 deforestation

>but don't recall if you attempted an answer. How would you propose we stop deforestation of the tropics and its huge impact on global warming and biodiversity loss?

How do you stop deforestation? A mixture of outlawing it, taxing it and subsidizing alternatives.

]]> deforestation

>but don't recall if you attempted an answer. How would you propose we stop deforestation of the tropics and its huge impact on global warming and biodiversity loss?

How do you stop deforestation? A mixture of outlawing it, taxing it and subsidizing alternatives.

]]> Comment #6 by Gar Lipow http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/ Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:46:47 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/offsets-threat-or-menace/6 Deforestation - one more thought

Remember, the examples that chapped Adam Steins ass so much cause they are a teeny tiny percent of offsets.  But it remains true that they do a lot of harm, and in many cases consist of replacing existing natural tropical forests with exotic (to the tropics) monoculture such as Eucalyptus.

]]> Deforestation - one more thought

Remember, the examples that chapped Adam Steins ass so much cause they are a teeny tiny percent of offsets.  But it remains true that they do a lot of harm, and in many cases consist of replacing existing natural tropical forests with exotic (to the tropics) monoculture such as Eucalyptus.

]]>