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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Off-road vehicle use has surged in Western wilderness areas]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/offroad/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:52:25 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/offroad/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Motorized Recreation</strong></p><p>Motorized recreationists are some of the lowest forms of life on the planet, so it's no surprise that they think nothing of destroying land for their selfish pleasure. &nbsp;These people have no understanding of nature, nor do they care about it. &nbsp;Additionally, Americans' obsession with technology is at an all time high, which explains why motorized recreation is increasing. &nbsp;Even sailors, who used to pride themselves on using the wind instead of oil, now motor as often as they actually sail.</p><p>
What's needed is complete abolition of motorized recreation in any form. &nbsp;This is a totally illegitimate activity and industry.</p>
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				<p><strong>Motorized Recreation</strong></p><p>Motorized recreationists are some of the lowest forms of life on the planet, so it's no surprise that they think nothing of destroying land for their selfish pleasure. &nbsp;These people have no understanding of nature, nor do they care about it. &nbsp;Additionally, Americans' obsession with technology is at an all time high, which explains why motorized recreation is increasing. &nbsp;Even sailors, who used to pride themselves on using the wind instead of oil, now motor as often as they actually sail.</p><p>
What's needed is complete abolition of motorized recreation in any form. &nbsp;This is a totally illegitimate activity and industry.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by egrande25</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/offroad/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 03:25:16 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/offroad/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Re: to Wolverine</strong></p><p>Unless I missed that this was a sarcastic and humorous statement (I might have), your comment is making a derogatory stereotype about motorized recreation that isn't helpful. How is it an illegitimate activity and industry? What laws does it break? Rampant vehicle use can dig up the land and cause noise pollution problems, which is why there should be designated areas for it and designated areas where it is not allowed. But not all public lands are intended to be pristine wildernesses...many are intended for varied use, from hiking to logging to hunting to motorized use for all citizens to enjoy in their own way, even if they are the "lowest forms of life on the planet," as your open-minded and enlightened comment states.</p>
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				<p><strong>Re: to Wolverine</strong></p><p>Unless I missed that this was a sarcastic and humorous statement (I might have), your comment is making a derogatory stereotype about motorized recreation that isn't helpful. How is it an illegitimate activity and industry? What laws does it break? Rampant vehicle use can dig up the land and cause noise pollution problems, which is why there should be designated areas for it and designated areas where it is not allowed. But not all public lands are intended to be pristine wildernesses...many are intended for varied use, from hiking to logging to hunting to motorized use for all citizens to enjoy in their own way, even if they are the "lowest forms of life on the planet," as your open-minded and enlightened comment states.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by randino</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/offroad/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 07:14:28 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/offroad/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>ATV riders</strong></p><p>are openly contemptuous of anyone other than ATV riders. Their sub culture is semi-criminal at times. They laugh at regulations to stay on designated trails. Some signs you will see that remind them of regulations are filled with bullet holes. There is a ton of anecdotal accounts of ATV riders bullying and even assaulting other recreational users. </p><p>
They have a philosophy that they can do anything they want in the name of freedom and the hell with everyone else. They are the apogee of American individualism gone berserk. The roots of the problem began with the dogma of multiple use, which I call mutliple abuse. The fact is that ATV use is not compatible with the recreation rights of other visitors to public land. But they are well funded and organized and have become the 800 lb gorillas of ourdoor rec. Just go to a forest service planning meeting where they have turned out. &nbsp;It is sobering. </p><p>
Randy Cunningham</p>
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				<p><strong>ATV riders</strong></p><p>are openly contemptuous of anyone other than ATV riders. Their sub culture is semi-criminal at times. They laugh at regulations to stay on designated trails. Some signs you will see that remind them of regulations are filled with bullet holes. There is a ton of anecdotal accounts of ATV riders bullying and even assaulting other recreational users. </p><p>
They have a philosophy that they can do anything they want in the name of freedom and the hell with everyone else. They are the apogee of American individualism gone berserk. The roots of the problem began with the dogma of multiple use, which I call mutliple abuse. The fact is that ATV use is not compatible with the recreation rights of other visitors to public land. But they are well funded and organized and have become the 800 lb gorillas of ourdoor rec. Just go to a forest service planning meeting where they have turned out. &nbsp;It is sobering. </p><p>
Randy Cunningham</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by egrande25</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/offroad/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:40:26 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/offroad/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>ATV use</strong></p><p>Labeling all ATV riders semi-criminal scofflaws who have no thought for the environment will not solve the problem, and makes one sound thoughtless and pretentious. </p><p>
Wilderness land should clearly be off limits to any vehicle. As for less-than-wilderness designations, it's more of a gray area. Multiple-use in my opinion is imperfect, but a valid way of offering the people supporting that land and its management financially (taxpayers) many opportunities to utilize it if they so choose. Of course this use can be abused...over-grazing of National Grasslands by private ranch herds comes to mind...so limits are necessary. However, an outright ban on ATV use on all public lands is simply not a fair limit. In my opinion enforced ATV use trails away from sensitive ecological areas, and planned to reduce noise pollution and erosion, are the way to go. Enforcement of this would be an initial hurdle, but some heavy fines would spread the message pretty quickly.</p>
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				<p><strong>ATV use</strong></p><p>Labeling all ATV riders semi-criminal scofflaws who have no thought for the environment will not solve the problem, and makes one sound thoughtless and pretentious. </p><p>
Wilderness land should clearly be off limits to any vehicle. As for less-than-wilderness designations, it's more of a gray area. Multiple-use in my opinion is imperfect, but a valid way of offering the people supporting that land and its management financially (taxpayers) many opportunities to utilize it if they so choose. Of course this use can be abused...over-grazing of National Grasslands by private ranch herds comes to mind...so limits are necessary. However, an outright ban on ATV use on all public lands is simply not a fair limit. In my opinion enforced ATV use trails away from sensitive ecological areas, and planned to reduce noise pollution and erosion, are the way to go. Enforcement of this would be an initial hurdle, but some heavy fines would spread the message pretty quickly.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Wolverine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/offroad/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 04:42:54 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/offroad/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Why Motorized Recreation Is Illegitimate</strong></p><p>To Egrande25:<br>
An activity does not have to be illegal to be environmentally illegitimate. &nbsp;This is an ENVIRONMENTAL website, remember? &nbsp;Destroying the land, making noise, and consuming and burning oil for pleasure are not legitimate activities, and neither is selling machines for doing so.</p><p>
Humans have already destroyed most of the planet. &nbsp;To say about the tiny fraction left in an at least somewhat natural condition that "not all public lands are intended to be pristine wildernesses" and that some should continued to be destroyed by logging or motorized recreation is entirely repugnant to environmental concerns, as well as very selfish. &nbsp;What the planet needs is far more wilderness, not more land destroyed by a bunch of mindless, aggressive jerks (Randy's comments above are totally correct).</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Why Motorized Recreation Is Illegitimate</strong></p><p>To Egrande25:<br>
An activity does not have to be illegal to be environmentally illegitimate. &nbsp;This is an ENVIRONMENTAL website, remember? &nbsp;Destroying the land, making noise, and consuming and burning oil for pleasure are not legitimate activities, and neither is selling machines for doing so.</p><p>
Humans have already destroyed most of the planet. &nbsp;To say about the tiny fraction left in an at least somewhat natural condition that "not all public lands are intended to be pristine wildernesses" and that some should continued to be destroyed by logging or motorized recreation is entirely repugnant to environmental concerns, as well as very selfish. &nbsp;What the planet needs is far more wilderness, not more land destroyed by a bunch of mindless, aggressive jerks (Randy's comments above are totally correct).</br></p>
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