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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for The latest primary dispute: Does Obama take oil money?]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by naught101</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:11:06 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>a good source<p><a href="http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Barack_Obama/Campaign_Financing" rel="nofollow">http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Barack_Obama/Campa ...<br>
Very detailed.<p>
The Clinton campaign's hypocrisy of attacking Obama on oil contributions is rank, so is the Obama campaign's lying.

<p>check out <a href="http://www.envirowiki.info" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"> <a href="http://www.envirowiki.info" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.envirowiki.info, the knowledge database for environmentalists and activists.</a></a></p></p></br></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>a good source<p><a href="http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Barack_Obama/Campaign_Financing" rel="nofollow">http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Barack_Obama/Campa ...<br>
Very detailed.<p>
The Clinton campaign's hypocrisy of attacking Obama on oil contributions is rank, so is the Obama campaign's lying.

<p>check out <a href="http://www.envirowiki.info" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"> <a href="http://www.envirowiki.info" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">http://www.envirowiki.info, the knowledge database for environmentalists and activists.</a></a></p></p></br></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by enki</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:21:57 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>And the winner is......?<p>Ok, so the oil companies contribute to EVERY candidate. More to those that they think will do the most for them and less to those that they think will do less. Of the Candidates most likely to have a chance at winning (Obama, McCain, Clinton) Obama received the least from the oil companies. That seems to be a good thing to me :D

<p><a href="http://www.myspace.com/enki09" rel="nofollow">Mike Johnston



</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>And the winner is......?<p>Ok, so the oil companies contribute to EVERY candidate. More to those that they think will do the most for them and less to those that they think will do less. Of the Candidates most likely to have a chance at winning (Obama, McCain, Clinton) Obama received the least from the oil companies. That seems to be a good thing to me :D

<p><a href="http://www.myspace.com/enki09" rel="nofollow">Mike Johnston



</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Tasermons Partner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 01:23:28 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Less than 300,000...</strong></p><p>All candidates recieved less than $300,000. &nbsp;The campaigns cost Tens of Millions a MONTH. &nbsp;Hard to think of a few hundred thousand as anything meaningful under those terms.</p>
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				<p><strong>Less than 300,000...</strong></p><p>All candidates recieved less than $300,000. &nbsp;The campaigns cost Tens of Millions a MONTH. &nbsp;Hard to think of a few hundred thousand as anything meaningful under those terms.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by ipsofacto</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:26:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>right &amp; wrong all around</strong></p><p>Obama uses pared down language, suitable for advertising but stilll able to draw fire. &nbsp;"Penalty on windfall profits" is punitive language that sounds like the closing of tax loopholes he's voted for a few times in the effort to extend the production tax credit for wind and solar energy. &nbsp; Also, when he says that Exxon "made" 40 billion, he's downplaying their actual income... that was Exxon's final net profits in one year. &nbsp;They made much more income than that. &nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;simple language for a simple ad; perhaps his campaign also thinks his target audience in PA is a simple audience. &nbsp; Yes? &nbsp;no? &nbsp;</p><p>
- ipso. &nbsp;</br></p>
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				<p><strong>right &amp; wrong all around</strong></p><p>Obama uses pared down language, suitable for advertising but stilll able to draw fire. &nbsp;"Penalty on windfall profits" is punitive language that sounds like the closing of tax loopholes he's voted for a few times in the effort to extend the production tax credit for wind and solar energy. &nbsp; Also, when he says that Exxon "made" 40 billion, he's downplaying their actual income... that was Exxon's final net profits in one year. &nbsp;They made much more income than that. &nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;simple language for a simple ad; perhaps his campaign also thinks his target audience in PA is a simple audience. &nbsp; Yes? &nbsp;no? &nbsp;</p><p>
- ipso. &nbsp;</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by racc</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:00:08 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Oil is a Political Liability</strong></p><p>Good news that accepting money from oil companies is a political liability.</p><p>
Hopefully, both them and the automobile companies will be going the way of the dinosaurs. </p>
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				<p><strong>Oil is a Political Liability</strong></p><p>Good news that accepting money from oil companies is a political liability.</p><p>
Hopefully, both them and the automobile companies will be going the way of the dinosaurs. </p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by DarthPetrol</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 03:53:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>No &quot;oil company&quot; contributions</strong></p><p>How ironic that Democrats are now tagging each other with the oil company contribution epithet that was once reserved for Republicans only. </p><p>
In reality there are NO OIL COMPANY CONTRIBUTIONS. Corporations are not allowed by law to contribute either to candidates or political parties. &nbsp;Their employees can, and are required to list their employer. &nbsp;That is where this lie gets slung around. &nbsp;Employees are free to support whoever they want. &nbsp;</p><p>
Corporate PACs are limited to $5k in contributions per year per person and limited to $5k in donations per candidate to a max of $15k. </p><p>
The oil company buying political influence myth is also alive and well. &nbsp;The top 20 PACS are dominated by labor unions and attorneys. &nbsp;The largest PAC is the Operators Engineers Union at $2 million. &nbsp;The PACS for the 3 largest US oil companies (ExxonMobil $264k, Chevron $200k, ConocoPhillips $70k) in total amount to 1/4 the size of the Operators Engineers. &nbsp;</p><p>
So it is ironic that the big evil oil companies have less political clout than their employees' unions PAC. &nbsp;</p><p>
Why don't we ever hear about evil union or evil trial lawyers undue influence on politicians? &nbsp;Oh that's right - because they give disproportionally to the Democrat Party. </p>
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				<p><strong>No &quot;oil company&quot; contributions</strong></p><p>How ironic that Democrats are now tagging each other with the oil company contribution epithet that was once reserved for Republicans only. </p><p>
In reality there are NO OIL COMPANY CONTRIBUTIONS. Corporations are not allowed by law to contribute either to candidates or political parties. &nbsp;Their employees can, and are required to list their employer. &nbsp;That is where this lie gets slung around. &nbsp;Employees are free to support whoever they want. &nbsp;</p><p>
Corporate PACs are limited to $5k in contributions per year per person and limited to $5k in donations per candidate to a max of $15k. </p><p>
The oil company buying political influence myth is also alive and well. &nbsp;The top 20 PACS are dominated by labor unions and attorneys. &nbsp;The largest PAC is the Operators Engineers Union at $2 million. &nbsp;The PACS for the 3 largest US oil companies (ExxonMobil $264k, Chevron $200k, ConocoPhillips $70k) in total amount to 1/4 the size of the Operators Engineers. &nbsp;</p><p>
So it is ironic that the big evil oil companies have less political clout than their employees' unions PAC. &nbsp;</p><p>
Why don't we ever hear about evil union or evil trial lawyers undue influence on politicians? &nbsp;Oh that's right - because they give disproportionally to the Democrat Party. </p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by dotcommodity</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:05:46 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>The key is how well they each withstand<p>the effects of lobbying money. <p>
Both Obama and Clinton have pretty good voting records that show they are not pushovers. <p>
McCain maintains the "maverick" (for a Republican) image on global warming, but shoots down every bill on the environment by simply not turning up to vote.<p>
See examples in this link:

<p>MCain = McSame: check this <a href="http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/23/mccmain-talks-environment-misses-votes-when-it-counts/" rel="nofollow">eco voting record (!)</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>The key is how well they each withstand<p>the effects of lobbying money. <p>
Both Obama and Clinton have pretty good voting records that show they are not pushovers. <p>
McCain maintains the "maverick" (for a Republican) image on global warming, but shoots down every bill on the environment by simply not turning up to vote.<p>
See examples in this link:

<p>MCain = McSame: check this <a href="http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/23/mccmain-talks-environment-misses-votes-when-it-counts/" rel="nofollow">eco voting record (!)</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:33:08 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Incidentally<p>Obama gets the least from :<br>
1. Oil companies<br>
<a href="http://www.oilwatchdog.org/?topicId=8059&amp;/The+Industry" rel="nofollow">http://www.oilwatchdog.org/?topicId=8059&amp;/The+Industr ...<br>
2. Agribusiness<br>
<a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/print/2008/1/10/82158/7671?show_comments=yes" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/print/2008/1/10/82158/7671?sho ...<br>
3. Defense Contractors<br>
<a href="http://www.alternet.org/story/65869/" rel="nofollow">http://www.alternet.org/story/65869/<p>
Obama also gets the most from:<br>
1. Small donors<br>
<a href="http://www.contracostatimes.com/politics/ci_8748705" rel="nofollow">http://www.contracostatimes.com/politics/ci_8748705</a></br></br></p></a></br></br></a></br></br></a></br></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Incidentally<p>Obama gets the least from :<br>
1. Oil companies<br>
<a href="http://www.oilwatchdog.org/?topicId=8059&amp;/The+Industry" rel="nofollow">http://www.oilwatchdog.org/?topicId=8059&amp;/The+Industr ...<br>
2. Agribusiness<br>
<a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/print/2008/1/10/82158/7671?show_comments=yes" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/print/2008/1/10/82158/7671?sho ...<br>
3. Defense Contractors<br>
<a href="http://www.alternet.org/story/65869/" rel="nofollow">http://www.alternet.org/story/65869/<p>
Obama also gets the most from:<br>
1. Small donors<br>
<a href="http://www.contracostatimes.com/politics/ci_8748705" rel="nofollow">http://www.contracostatimes.com/politics/ci_8748705</a></br></br></p></a></br></br></a></br></br></a></br></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by DarthPetrol</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:07:51 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Source</strong></p><p>Grey - you cite oilwatchdog as a source? There is an unbiased source of information! </p><p>
Your post perpetuates the myth. &nbsp;Here is the direct quote from Opensecrets.com: &nbsp;</p><p>
"This chart lists the top donors to this member of Congress during the election cycle. <b>The organizations themselves did not donate, rather the money came from the organization's PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. </b>Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates." </p><p>
There is no such thing as "oil company" money in electoral politics.</p>
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				<p><strong>Source</strong></p><p>Grey - you cite oilwatchdog as a source? There is an unbiased source of information! </p><p>
Your post perpetuates the myth. &nbsp;Here is the direct quote from Opensecrets.com: &nbsp;</p><p>
"This chart lists the top donors to this member of Congress during the election cycle. <b>The organizations themselves did not donate, rather the money came from the organization's PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. </b>Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates." </p><p>
There is no such thing as "oil company" money in electoral politics.</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 01:06:49 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Huh?</strong></p><p>Isn't the main issue how much we "donate" to oil companies? &nbsp;Ask anyone filling their tank and swiping their card, they'll agree.</p><p>
Oil is killing our economy. &nbsp;Oil wars and oil trade deficits are destroying our national solvency and currency. &nbsp;Oil is helping to destroy the human friendly climate of planet earth.</p><p>
Don't let the wing nuts tyry to turn it all around and blame barack somehow. &nbsp;In fact he is the only one who is in a position to try and help us out of this multi-level death spiral that big oil, big coal, nuclear, and agribizz interests have us on.</p><p>
We need a new FDR and Teddy Roosevelt combined, Barack is as close as we have seen anyone compare to them in a very long time. &nbsp;Just be grateful he is willing to risk it all to do his patriotic duty to save this nation. &nbsp;

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Huh?</strong></p><p>Isn't the main issue how much we "donate" to oil companies? &nbsp;Ask anyone filling their tank and swiping their card, they'll agree.</p><p>
Oil is killing our economy. &nbsp;Oil wars and oil trade deficits are destroying our national solvency and currency. &nbsp;Oil is helping to destroy the human friendly climate of planet earth.</p><p>
Don't let the wing nuts tyry to turn it all around and blame barack somehow. &nbsp;In fact he is the only one who is in a position to try and help us out of this multi-level death spiral that big oil, big coal, nuclear, and agribizz interests have us on.</p><p>
We need a new FDR and Teddy Roosevelt combined, Barack is as close as we have seen anyone compare to them in a very long time. &nbsp;Just be grateful he is willing to risk it all to do his patriotic duty to save this nation. &nbsp;

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by DarthPetrol</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 04:49:12 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Back to the point</strong></p><p>Obama claims to not take money from oil companies or lobbyists. &nbsp;There is no such thing as oil company political donations - they are illegal. He does appear to take contributions from employees of oil companies, which is not the same thing. &nbsp;</p><p>
The policies he proposes, windfall taxes, mandating solutions are likely to make the problem worse not better. &nbsp;These have been tried before and lead to unintended consequences. &nbsp;</p><p>
The last time windfall profits was tried it led to lower domestic oil production and a exodus of US jobs overseas. </p><p>
Domestic energy policies can encourage new sources of energy without punishing those companies that invested heavily in older technologies. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>Back to the point</strong></p><p>Obama claims to not take money from oil companies or lobbyists. &nbsp;There is no such thing as oil company political donations - they are illegal. He does appear to take contributions from employees of oil companies, which is not the same thing. &nbsp;</p><p>
The policies he proposes, windfall taxes, mandating solutions are likely to make the problem worse not better. &nbsp;These have been tried before and lead to unintended consequences. &nbsp;</p><p>
The last time windfall profits was tried it led to lower domestic oil production and a exodus of US jobs overseas. </p><p>
Domestic energy policies can encourage new sources of energy without punishing those companies that invested heavily in older technologies. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 10:19:33 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>Hillary=Darth</strong></p><p>She has officially accepted dimbulb limboob wing nut membership with this latest load. &nbsp;</p><p>
Put on your pants suit and dance around darth, dance around. &nbsp;You are Hillary now!

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Hillary=Darth</strong></p><p>She has officially accepted dimbulb limboob wing nut membership with this latest load. &nbsp;</p><p>
Put on your pants suit and dance around darth, dance around. &nbsp;You are Hillary now!

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:13:33 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/13</guid>
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				<p><strong>Scaife</strong></p><p>Now Hill is makinmg nice with Scaife to get his newspaper's endorsement. &nbsp;Was it her idea to hire Dick Morris? &nbsp;She's ready for command alright!

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Scaife</strong></p><p>Now Hill is makinmg nice with Scaife to get his newspaper's endorsement. &nbsp;Was it her idea to hire Dick Morris? &nbsp;She's ready for command alright!

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by In the belly</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/obama-and-oil-companies/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:22:53 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>oil company PACs = oil companies</strong></p><p>Sure, legally they are separate entities, but in reality? &nbsp;The board will be composed of executives from the company and employees vetted by management, invitations to join the PAC will be to more highly compensated employees who the PAC will expect to share the company's "outlook," candidates supported will be folks who can be expected to promote a pro-business, anti-regulation agenda, etc.</p><p>
Call it what you will, it is a tool of the company.</p>
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				<p><strong>oil company PACs = oil companies</strong></p><p>Sure, legally they are separate entities, but in reality? &nbsp;The board will be composed of executives from the company and employees vetted by management, invitations to join the PAC will be to more highly compensated employees who the PAC will expect to share the company's "outlook," candidates supported will be folks who can be expected to promote a pro-business, anti-regulation agenda, etc.</p><p>
Call it what you will, it is a tool of the company.</p>
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