<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
<channel>
	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Subways are the best]]></title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.grist.org/rss/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
	<language>en</language>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #1 by wayneluke</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:48:25 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/1</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Construction costs</strong></p><p>What would be the construction costs for this nation of subways? What would be the atmospheric impact of that construction. It really isn't a solution. Many areas in this country don't even have adequate bus services and busses do not need additional infrastructure. Give me electric busses that can get me around a city for 1 kWh per trip and I might be interested in a national program.</p><p>
However this is good for New York City. But if there are 4.1 million trips daily, that means 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the city population are getting around by other means. All depending on how many trips a person makes on average per day.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Construction costs</strong></p><p>What would be the construction costs for this nation of subways? What would be the atmospheric impact of that construction. It really isn't a solution. Many areas in this country don't even have adequate bus services and busses do not need additional infrastructure. Give me electric busses that can get me around a city for 1 kWh per trip and I might be interested in a national program.</p><p>
However this is good for New York City. But if there are 4.1 million trips daily, that means 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the city population are getting around by other means. All depending on how many trips a person makes on average per day.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #2 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:56:03 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>WayneLuke --</strong></p><p>This is very much an impressionistic idea. &nbsp;The main point is to show, that if everybody was in a walkable-mass transit accessable area, it would be very easy to radically cut carbon emissions and oil use. &nbsp;Just as a point of reference.</p><p>
As far as all the other points, yes, and I will be following up with other helpful hints as I calculate them. &nbsp;And certainly, buses at 1 kwh per trip would be great. &nbsp;By the way, about 50% of mass transit in NYC is buses and 50% subways; 50% of the people in NYC don't even own cars. &nbsp;So even if you multiplied mu estimates by 10, you will still get to less than 25% of current electrical use.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>WayneLuke --</strong></p><p>This is very much an impressionistic idea. &nbsp;The main point is to show, that if everybody was in a walkable-mass transit accessable area, it would be very easy to radically cut carbon emissions and oil use. &nbsp;Just as a point of reference.</p><p>
As far as all the other points, yes, and I will be following up with other helpful hints as I calculate them. &nbsp;And certainly, buses at 1 kwh per trip would be great. &nbsp;By the way, about 50% of mass transit in NYC is buses and 50% subways; 50% of the people in NYC don't even own cars. &nbsp;So even if you multiplied mu estimates by 10, you will still get to less than 25% of current electrical use.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #3 by Laurence Aurbach</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 01:22:51 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/3</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>subway system vs. roadway system<p>Look at all the other things that draw electricity in the NYC subway system, besides the vehicles. Signals, station and tunnel lighting, ventilation and miscellaneous line equipment, maintenance operations, and auxiliary equipment such as water pumps and emergency lighting. <p>
To make an apples-to-apples comparison with automobiles, you need to include the energy used for roadway lighting and signals, maintenance, policing, emergency response; operation of parking facilities including underground garages with ventilation and water pumps, etc. etc.

<p><a href="http://pedshed.net" rel="nofollow">Ped Shed Blog</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>subway system vs. roadway system<p>Look at all the other things that draw electricity in the NYC subway system, besides the vehicles. Signals, station and tunnel lighting, ventilation and miscellaneous line equipment, maintenance operations, and auxiliary equipment such as water pumps and emergency lighting. <p>
To make an apples-to-apples comparison with automobiles, you need to include the energy used for roadway lighting and signals, maintenance, policing, emergency response; operation of parking facilities including underground garages with ventilation and water pumps, etc. etc.

<p><a href="http://pedshed.net" rel="nofollow">Ped Shed Blog</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #4 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 03:27:39 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/4</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Ever Hear of a Directed Graph?<p><br>
The whole point of comparing any linear (trains, airplanes) transportation system to a mutlinode, infinitely flexible system (cars, bikes, walking, buses, taxis) is ridiculous.<p>
All your doing is setting initial conditions (I think that everyone should live in Point B, and Travel to Point A there and back again, five days a week) that guarantee that your optimized system will work.<p>
But what that doesn't take into account is all the other optimizations in the economy that the flexible truck and auto transportation system delivers.<p>
Examples...transporting goods. &nbsp; Yes, you can put all your goods on a train in LA and ship them to NY -- but then what? &nbsp; You still have to fan them out to markets all over the place by truck.<p>
What's optimized about the multinode car/bus/taxi/bike/pedestrian system is that anything that has to be moved place to place, for added services, like many of our goods, for initial materials, to reformed intermediary materials, to assembled product, to sales point, is far better served by the current system.<p>
Unless you take into account all the energy saved, all the miles not travelled, all the optimized development of products, all the consumer choices, all the freedoms inherent in the mutlinode system, you can't talk to me.

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://supratext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Supratext:</a></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Ever Hear of a Directed Graph?<p><br>
The whole point of comparing any linear (trains, airplanes) transportation system to a mutlinode, infinitely flexible system (cars, bikes, walking, buses, taxis) is ridiculous.<p>
All your doing is setting initial conditions (I think that everyone should live in Point B, and Travel to Point A there and back again, five days a week) that guarantee that your optimized system will work.<p>
But what that doesn't take into account is all the other optimizations in the economy that the flexible truck and auto transportation system delivers.<p>
Examples...transporting goods. &nbsp; Yes, you can put all your goods on a train in LA and ship them to NY -- but then what? &nbsp; You still have to fan them out to markets all over the place by truck.<p>
What's optimized about the multinode car/bus/taxi/bike/pedestrian system is that anything that has to be moved place to place, for added services, like many of our goods, for initial materials, to reformed intermediary materials, to assembled product, to sales point, is far better served by the current system.<p>
Unless you take into account all the energy saved, all the miles not travelled, all the optimized development of products, all the consumer choices, all the freedoms inherent in the mutlinode system, you can't talk to me.

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://supratext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Supratext:</a></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #5 by Gar Lipow</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 05:59:13 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/5</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Energy per trip</strong></p><p>I think overall that 1 or 2 kWh per <strong>average</strong> trip is an attainable goal. (The reason I'm doubling it for both trains and trucks is that on the NY subway, people mostly switch cars, so you probably average 1.5 to 2 trips per one-way journey. &nbsp;Similarly, I doubt the average car trip will ever drop to 8 miles. <br>
</p><p>
In terms of multi-modal, I don't think we will ever phase out car use entirely (unless civilization falls, and we are back to dragging our asses through &nbsp;a hothouse world hunting and gathering). But I suspect most people make plenty of journeys where if train were available they choose it in preference to car trip. So for ground passenger transport, the goal is a mixture of increased ground rail transport, advanced PHEVs, better facilities for walking and biking, and better buses where appropriate. (Ultimately for buses to compete with cars &nbsp;they need their own streets or lanes. You also need arrangement like trains have where traffic stops to let them by, so they don't have to stop at stoplights AND bus stops. This is being done in some areas.)</br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Energy per trip</strong></p><p>I think overall that 1 or 2 kWh per <strong>average</strong> trip is an attainable goal. (The reason I'm doubling it for both trains and trucks is that on the NY subway, people mostly switch cars, so you probably average 1.5 to 2 trips per one-way journey. &nbsp;Similarly, I doubt the average car trip will ever drop to 8 miles. <br>
</p><p>
In terms of multi-modal, I don't think we will ever phase out car use entirely (unless civilization falls, and we are back to dragging our asses through &nbsp;a hothouse world hunting and gathering). But I suspect most people make plenty of journeys where if train were available they choose it in preference to car trip. So for ground passenger transport, the goal is a mixture of increased ground rail transport, advanced PHEVs, better facilities for walking and biking, and better buses where appropriate. (Ultimately for buses to compete with cars &nbsp;they need their own streets or lanes. You also need arrangement like trains have where traffic stops to let them by, so they don't have to stop at stoplights AND bus stops. This is being done in some areas.)</br></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #6 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:03:07 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/6</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Walking is negawatts</strong></p><p>The statistics for NYC way underestimate the number of trips taken per subway electrical use because a huge number of trips are done by walking. &nbsp;For instance, when I lived in NYC, almost all of my food shopping was to the corner supermarket. &nbsp;In the rest of America, that requires 5 to 10 to more miles each way by car-- and many other forms of trips are done by walking in NYC as well. &nbsp;So, jabailo, the directed graphs work better in dense cities because the segments are much, much, shorter. &nbsp;In an ideal situation in which everyone lived in a dense city, then it would be very easy for people to move to where they wanted to go, via walking or public transit -- easier than the current system.</p><p>
Now, whether we will ever get to that system is a question of, as they say, "political will", not technical capacity. &nbsp;As Laurence points out, there is much higher cost to cars than just the mileage -- the cost to the health care system from the deaths and injuries alone is staggering. &nbsp;But at this point, the entire planet is definitely in an automobile frame of mind, so I was just pointing out that 1 kwhr might be a good goal to shoot for, if the drive-anywhere-anytime-whenever-I-want-to-dammit sentiment should ever change.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Walking is negawatts</strong></p><p>The statistics for NYC way underestimate the number of trips taken per subway electrical use because a huge number of trips are done by walking. &nbsp;For instance, when I lived in NYC, almost all of my food shopping was to the corner supermarket. &nbsp;In the rest of America, that requires 5 to 10 to more miles each way by car-- and many other forms of trips are done by walking in NYC as well. &nbsp;So, jabailo, the directed graphs work better in dense cities because the segments are much, much, shorter. &nbsp;In an ideal situation in which everyone lived in a dense city, then it would be very easy for people to move to where they wanted to go, via walking or public transit -- easier than the current system.</p><p>
Now, whether we will ever get to that system is a question of, as they say, "political will", not technical capacity. &nbsp;As Laurence points out, there is much higher cost to cars than just the mileage -- the cost to the health care system from the deaths and injuries alone is staggering. &nbsp;But at this point, the entire planet is definitely in an automobile frame of mind, so I was just pointing out that 1 kwhr might be a good goal to shoot for, if the drive-anywhere-anytime-whenever-I-want-to-dammit sentiment should ever change.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #7 by Pangolin</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:13:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/7</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Road repairs are too expensive NOW.<p>My relatively prosperous little town is increasingly behind on the repair and maintenance of urban roads right now. USA today agrees that you can <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2006-06-19-asphalt-usat_x.htm" rel="nofollow">"Blame oil prices for those potholes." As the roads are asphalt (oil) and require trucks (oil), graders (oil), rollers (oil) and paving machines (oil) to resurface a badly damaged street the doubling of the cost of oil has made road repairs a bit pricey.<p>
So they just don't keep up and the roads are turning to mazes of potholes and patches. This is in California where we don't get freezing ground ever. Any future scenariao that doesn't plan for repair and replacement of our roads without cheap crude oil is defunct.<p>
What is cheap to install, repair and maintain in comparison to roadways is rails. &nbsp;Overhead light rails in particular would be cheaper to install than to maintain the existing roads. <p>
<a href="http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/prtquick.htm" rel="nofollow">Personal Rapid Transit systems could have the capacity to deliver both people and palleted goods to local transit hubs. Using smaller pods would require smaller rails, less material costs and would deliver more passengers or goods per Kwh. Ultimately that will be the goal. <p>
So whatever system uses the least amount of energy to build, maintain and use will ultimately prevail. In much of the world that will be bicycles on dirt tracks or boats in streams and canals. In the industrial world we can continue to invest in a system we can't ultimately afford or convert to systems that can be maintained on a renewable power stream. Cars won't be it.

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></a></p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Road repairs are too expensive NOW.<p>My relatively prosperous little town is increasingly behind on the repair and maintenance of urban roads right now. USA today agrees that you can <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2006-06-19-asphalt-usat_x.htm" rel="nofollow">"Blame oil prices for those potholes." As the roads are asphalt (oil) and require trucks (oil), graders (oil), rollers (oil) and paving machines (oil) to resurface a badly damaged street the doubling of the cost of oil has made road repairs a bit pricey.<p>
So they just don't keep up and the roads are turning to mazes of potholes and patches. This is in California where we don't get freezing ground ever. Any future scenariao that doesn't plan for repair and replacement of our roads without cheap crude oil is defunct.<p>
What is cheap to install, repair and maintain in comparison to roadways is rails. &nbsp;Overhead light rails in particular would be cheaper to install than to maintain the existing roads. <p>
<a href="http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/prtquick.htm" rel="nofollow">Personal Rapid Transit systems could have the capacity to deliver both people and palleted goods to local transit hubs. Using smaller pods would require smaller rails, less material costs and would deliver more passengers or goods per Kwh. Ultimately that will be the goal. <p>
So whatever system uses the least amount of energy to build, maintain and use will ultimately prevail. In much of the world that will be bicycles on dirt tracks or boats in streams and canals. In the industrial world we can continue to invest in a system we can't ultimately afford or convert to systems that can be maintained on a renewable power stream. Cars won't be it.

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></a></p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #8 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 02:25:13 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/8</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Light rail</strong></p><p>Light rail down the freeway median? &nbsp;They are doing it in Minneapolis.</p><p>
How long until the light rail is a high speed renewably (wind electric)powered train &nbsp;in a tube? &nbsp;Direct electric rail power due to the closed and protected tube, no rain, snow, deer, cars, people wandering onto the tracks.</p><p>
This sort of light rail could go well over 100 mph on longer trips. &nbsp;How much air travel and resulting GHGs would that save? &nbsp;Billions of tons!!</p><p>
Only 1 kwh per trip in NYC subways. &nbsp;This system could be 1 kwh per trip for commutes from chicago to missneapolis, for instance, and beyond.</p><p>
I think people would gladly leave their cars behind and shun planes as well for this kind of travel. &nbsp; They could take their bikes with them or rent a plugin hybrid at the destination. &nbsp;Early adoption of plugins lend itself to car rental better than private ownership. &nbsp;Fleets of rental vehicles are a great way to introduce this technology.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Light rail</strong></p><p>Light rail down the freeway median? &nbsp;They are doing it in Minneapolis.</p><p>
How long until the light rail is a high speed renewably (wind electric)powered train &nbsp;in a tube? &nbsp;Direct electric rail power due to the closed and protected tube, no rain, snow, deer, cars, people wandering onto the tracks.</p><p>
This sort of light rail could go well over 100 mph on longer trips. &nbsp;How much air travel and resulting GHGs would that save? &nbsp;Billions of tons!!</p><p>
Only 1 kwh per trip in NYC subways. &nbsp;This system could be 1 kwh per trip for commutes from chicago to missneapolis, for instance, and beyond.</p><p>
I think people would gladly leave their cars behind and shun planes as well for this kind of travel. &nbsp; They could take their bikes with them or rent a plugin hybrid at the destination. &nbsp;Early adoption of plugins lend itself to car rental better than private ownership. &nbsp;Fleets of rental vehicles are a great way to introduce this technology.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #9 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 04:22:17 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/9</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Wish we could get to Minneapolis...</strong></p><p>...but the train takes hours from Chicago now, it's a crying shame that there are not high-speed rail lines coming out of Chicago -- it used to be the rail hub for most of the country! &nbsp;To Seattle now is 48 hours, same to SF or LA. &nbsp;Liberate highway medians now!</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Wish we could get to Minneapolis...</strong></p><p>...but the train takes hours from Chicago now, it's a crying shame that there are not high-speed rail lines coming out of Chicago -- it used to be the rail hub for most of the country! &nbsp;To Seattle now is 48 hours, same to SF or LA. &nbsp;Liberate highway medians now!</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #10 by Nucbuddy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:29:48 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/10</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Walking is not a negawattage resource<p><b>Jon Rynn wrote: Walking is negawatts<p>
No, Jon. Walking burns energy: around 1/8 kWh per mile.<br>
<a href="http://walking.about.com/cs/howtoloseweight/a/howcalburn.htm" rel="nofollow">walking.about.com/cs/howtoloseweight/a/howcalburn.htm<br>
<a href="http://www.uwsp.edu/CNR/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm" rel="nofollow">uwsp.edu/CNR/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm<p>
In addition to burning energy resources, walking burns intellectual resources.<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_time" rel="nofollow">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_time<br>
</br></a></br></p></a></br></a></br></p></b></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Walking is not a negawattage resource<p><b>Jon Rynn wrote: Walking is negawatts<p>
No, Jon. Walking burns energy: around 1/8 kWh per mile.<br>
<a href="http://walking.about.com/cs/howtoloseweight/a/howcalburn.htm" rel="nofollow">walking.about.com/cs/howtoloseweight/a/howcalburn.htm<br>
<a href="http://www.uwsp.edu/CNR/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm" rel="nofollow">uwsp.edu/CNR/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm<p>
In addition to burning energy resources, walking burns intellectual resources.<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_time" rel="nofollow">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_time<br>
</br></a></br></p></a></br></a></br></p></b></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #11 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 10:24:41 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/11</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Walking burning calories as bad...</strong></p><p>...is about the ...er...most intellectually challenged argument I've heard since the arguments against anthropogenic global warming. &nbsp;Walking is what people do. &nbsp;Maybe breathing takes too much energy. &nbsp;Maybe we'd use no energy if we were all dead, but I'd rather attempt something better than that. &nbsp;There are a small subset of activities that humans should definietely do, among which are walking and exercise, eating, and making tools. &nbsp;</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Walking burning calories as bad...</strong></p><p>...is about the ...er...most intellectually challenged argument I've heard since the arguments against anthropogenic global warming. &nbsp;Walking is what people do. &nbsp;Maybe breathing takes too much energy. &nbsp;Maybe we'd use no energy if we were all dead, but I'd rather attempt something better than that. &nbsp;There are a small subset of activities that humans should definietely do, among which are walking and exercise, eating, and making tools. &nbsp;</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #12 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:20:02 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/12</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Free the medians!</strong></p><p>Great slogan Jon. &nbsp;I see a bumpersticker.</p><p>
Renewable electric freeway median light rail in tubes for all. &nbsp;A transportation revolution. &nbsp;Bike racks in the trains of course.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Free the medians!</strong></p><p>Great slogan Jon. &nbsp;I see a bumpersticker.</p><p>
Renewable electric freeway median light rail in tubes for all. &nbsp;A transportation revolution. &nbsp;Bike racks in the trains of course.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #13 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:34:05 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/nyc-subways-one-kilowatt-hour-per-trip/13</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Tubes</strong></p><p>How about bullet and bomb proof tubes as amusement rides through poverty stricken high crime and war zones?</p><p>
Wealthy citizens instead of going to Disney world could ride these tubes and see actual crimes in progress! &nbsp;Much more thrilling than tabloid teeveee.</p><p>
The frustrated criminals could not get at the people in the tubes. &nbsp;Hehehey. &nbsp;Rupert? &nbsp;This is an idea Murdoch is probably already working on.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Tubes</strong></p><p>How about bullet and bomb proof tubes as amusement rides through poverty stricken high crime and war zones?</p><p>
Wealthy citizens instead of going to Disney world could ride these tubes and see actual crimes in progress! &nbsp;Much more thrilling than tabloid teeveee.</p><p>
The frustrated criminals could not get at the people in the tubes. &nbsp;Hehehey. &nbsp;Rupert? &nbsp;This is an idea Murdoch is probably already working on.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
 </channel>
</rss>