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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Following the path of contaminants from your bathroom to the birds]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 04:46:50 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>&quot;same kinds of effects&quot;</strong></p><p>This is a fascinating and troubling post, Fawn. &nbsp;The omnivorous starlings are a terrific subject species. &nbsp;But it will be interesting to see what effects are observed in other birds, with not altogether similar diets. &nbsp;The pictured cardinal, for example, does indeed eat insect larvae, but primarily eats seeds and fruits; and its preferred habitat is thick brush with a mix of tree-cover and open sky, not planted fields.</p><p>
In the last paragraph, "same kinds of effects" is not quite accurate for the three examples given. &nbsp;The example from reptiles, marine iguanas in the Galapagos, has to do with harm from an oil spill. &nbsp;The examples from fishes (the British roach, Rutilus rutilus) and amphibians (certain frogs) are closer, having to do with reproductive disruption caused by sexual re-expression as an effect of chemical-induced hormone imbalance. &nbsp;But with the European starlings, apparently the males and the females are getting along together and reproducing just fine, only the males are passing along some dangerous inheritable deficiencies, which is a problem of a different sort.<br>


<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></p>
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				<p><strong>&quot;same kinds of effects&quot;</strong></p><p>This is a fascinating and troubling post, Fawn. &nbsp;The omnivorous starlings are a terrific subject species. &nbsp;But it will be interesting to see what effects are observed in other birds, with not altogether similar diets. &nbsp;The pictured cardinal, for example, does indeed eat insect larvae, but primarily eats seeds and fruits; and its preferred habitat is thick brush with a mix of tree-cover and open sky, not planted fields.</p><p>
In the last paragraph, "same kinds of effects" is not quite accurate for the three examples given. &nbsp;The example from reptiles, marine iguanas in the Galapagos, has to do with harm from an oil spill. &nbsp;The examples from fishes (the British roach, Rutilus rutilus) and amphibians (certain frogs) are closer, having to do with reproductive disruption caused by sexual re-expression as an effect of chemical-induced hormone imbalance. &nbsp;But with the European starlings, apparently the males and the females are getting along together and reproducing just fine, only the males are passing along some dangerous inheritable deficiencies, which is a problem of a different sort.<br>


<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 04:56:15 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Aerobic digestion</strong></p><p>Aerobic digestion, composting toilets, would stop these compounds entering the water. &nbsp;And it saves huge amounts of water too.</p><p>
Other waste water can then be easily recycled. &nbsp;Saving even more water. &nbsp;All waste water not containing human waste can serve as irrigation water with simple lagoon treatment, covered in hot dry climates to prevent evaporation losses.</p><p>
Drug compounds would break down in the digestor as water evaporates into the air. &nbsp;Oh well. &nbsp;Another simple solution that goes against the mass delusional corporate culture.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Aerobic digestion</strong></p><p>Aerobic digestion, composting toilets, would stop these compounds entering the water. &nbsp;And it saves huge amounts of water too.</p><p>
Other waste water can then be easily recycled. &nbsp;Saving even more water. &nbsp;All waste water not containing human waste can serve as irrigation water with simple lagoon treatment, covered in hot dry climates to prevent evaporation losses.</p><p>
Drug compounds would break down in the digestor as water evaporates into the air. &nbsp;Oh well. &nbsp;Another simple solution that goes against the mass delusional corporate culture.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Fawn Pattison</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 05:25:27 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>re: same kinds of effects</strong></p><p>Thanks, caniscandida, for your clarification! &nbsp;The authors of the UK article reference these studies and several others for evidence of endocrine-disrupting compounds' ability to harm reproductive success in wildlife, including behavioral and physioloigcal effects. &nbsp;Instead of "same kinds of effects" I should have said something like... &nbsp;"same kinds of compounds, various pathways, disruption of reproductive success in various species..." &nbsp;I oversimplified. &nbsp;Thanks! &nbsp; </p>
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				<p><strong>re: same kinds of effects</strong></p><p>Thanks, caniscandida, for your clarification! &nbsp;The authors of the UK article reference these studies and several others for evidence of endocrine-disrupting compounds' ability to harm reproductive success in wildlife, including behavioral and physioloigcal effects. &nbsp;Instead of "same kinds of effects" I should have said something like... &nbsp;"same kinds of compounds, various pathways, disruption of reproductive success in various species..." &nbsp;I oversimplified. &nbsp;Thanks! &nbsp; </p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Lisa Hymas</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 05:35:01 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>My bad on the cardinal</strong></p><p>I added the picture to the post, not knowing the cardinal isn't a big worm consumer. &nbsp;Canis, can you suggest a different bird that's more prone to chow on earthworms? &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>My bad on the cardinal</strong></p><p>I added the picture to the post, not knowing the cardinal isn't a big worm consumer. &nbsp;Canis, can you suggest a different bird that's more prone to chow on earthworms? &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 06:04:10 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>robins and meadowlarks</strong></p><p>Oh gosh, it is OK, Lisa, in this context. &nbsp;Fawn's excellent post was clear enough.</p><p>
But: The American Robin (Turdus migratorius -- and the genus name has nothing to do with its gross Anglo-Saxon look-alike, but is in fact the Latin word for "thrush") is a famous worm-eater, though perhaps we usually do not associate them with farms and fields.</p><p>
On the other hand, very well known in Midwestern and Western states, and very photogenic, are the two Meadowlarks, the Eastern (Sturnella magna) and the Western (S. neglecta, a name that brings me to tears). &nbsp;I have never seen them here in the Northeast, though they are here, according to the range maps; I made their acquaintance the first time I visited Montana, by bus, in the late 1980s. &nbsp;Sibley says of the Eastern: "Feeds on seeds, insects, and worms."

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>robins and meadowlarks</strong></p><p>Oh gosh, it is OK, Lisa, in this context. &nbsp;Fawn's excellent post was clear enough.</p><p>
But: The American Robin (Turdus migratorius -- and the genus name has nothing to do with its gross Anglo-Saxon look-alike, but is in fact the Latin word for "thrush") is a famous worm-eater, though perhaps we usually do not associate them with farms and fields.</p><p>
On the other hand, very well known in Midwestern and Western states, and very photogenic, are the two Meadowlarks, the Eastern (Sturnella magna) and the Western (S. neglecta, a name that brings me to tears). &nbsp;I have never seen them here in the Northeast, though they are here, according to the range maps; I made their acquaintance the first time I visited Montana, by bus, in the late 1980s. &nbsp;Sibley says of the Eastern: "Feeds on seeds, insects, and worms."

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by willa</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:52:43 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>hormones</strong></p><p>I assume birth control pills are major offenders here, along with cosmetics that contain hormone-mimicking substances?</p><p>
I hate when various elements of my politics start fistfights with one another...<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>hormones</strong></p><p>I assume birth control pills are major offenders here, along with cosmetics that contain hormone-mimicking substances?</p><p>
I hate when various elements of my politics start fistfights with one another...<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 19:14:22 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>the fault of women?</strong></p><p>So, the "biosolids" of women on the Pill should be collected separately, and shipped to Yucca Mountain for storage?</p><p>
"Hormone-mimicking substances" is a rather harder concept to understand.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>the fault of women?</strong></p><p>So, the "biosolids" of women on the Pill should be collected separately, and shipped to Yucca Mountain for storage?</p><p>
"Hormone-mimicking substances" is a rather harder concept to understand.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 02:06:09 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Chemical solution</strong></p><p>The problem is that even with waste treatment, aneroebic digestion, the compounds in question, hormones, antibiotics, and so forth, are soluble in water and pass right through the system. &nbsp;Right into the ground water.</p><p>
Aerobic composting toilets evaporate the water from the waste, concentrating the chemical compounds in the biomass/active bacteria, where they are broken down. &nbsp;The evaporation is caused by air flow through the system and heat generated by the bacteria.</p><p>
The solution of chemicals in water passes right through most waste treatment systems or home based septic tanks. 

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Chemical solution</strong></p><p>The problem is that even with waste treatment, aneroebic digestion, the compounds in question, hormones, antibiotics, and so forth, are soluble in water and pass right through the system. &nbsp;Right into the ground water.</p><p>
Aerobic composting toilets evaporate the water from the waste, concentrating the chemical compounds in the biomass/active bacteria, where they are broken down. &nbsp;The evaporation is caused by air flow through the system and heat generated by the bacteria.</p><p>
The solution of chemicals in water passes right through most waste treatment systems or home based septic tanks. 

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Sam Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 03:55:15 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>The birds and the ... toilets?</strong></p><p>I read this with interest because many wastewater services are now touting use of recycles bio-solids as a good mulch when combined with soil. An early and famous one was Dillo Dirt from the Horsby Treatment plant east of Austin (a bird Mecca, BTW).</p><p>
Amazing is right that most of the chemicals we're talking here squirt right through the digesters. &nbsp;The system is tuned to reduce nitrogen, phosphorus, and other compounds found in amounts of parts per million - some of these nasty pharma compounds can be parts per billion or trillion. Note that Austin does say not to eat the dirt (ha!) or vegetables growing in it.</p><p>
And I appreciate Canis on the birds. Our spring migration is just starting here by the Mexico border ... we have yet to see a Worm Eating Warbler yet this year. Many birds such as the Redwing Blackbird will graze for bugs and worms (thousands of them here now). The Grackle, a very social by nasty back bird, will eat anything, including worms. &nbsp;/sammie

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>The birds and the ... toilets?</strong></p><p>I read this with interest because many wastewater services are now touting use of recycles bio-solids as a good mulch when combined with soil. An early and famous one was Dillo Dirt from the Horsby Treatment plant east of Austin (a bird Mecca, BTW).</p><p>
Amazing is right that most of the chemicals we're talking here squirt right through the digesters. &nbsp;The system is tuned to reduce nitrogen, phosphorus, and other compounds found in amounts of parts per million - some of these nasty pharma compounds can be parts per billion or trillion. Note that Austin does say not to eat the dirt (ha!) or vegetables growing in it.</p><p>
And I appreciate Canis on the birds. Our spring migration is just starting here by the Mexico border ... we have yet to see a Worm Eating Warbler yet this year. Many birds such as the Redwing Blackbird will graze for bugs and worms (thousands of them here now). The Grackle, a very social by nasty back bird, will eat anything, including worms. &nbsp;/sammie

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:15:38 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Waste recycling</strong></p><p>Most off the waste from human sewer systems is water. &nbsp;That's a problem, once contaminated with pathogenic bacteria and chemicals from human waste, it is toxic. &nbsp;</p><p>
Confining the toxic portion of the plumbing and breakdown process to air powered systems for flushing and digesting, would leave regular sewer water easily recyclable in a series of wetland holding ponds. &nbsp;The water would then be suitable for irrigation. &nbsp;Irrigating greenhouses would allow solar and &nbsp;geo heat exchange powered distillation of the water to render it fit for human consumption.</p><p>
Or it could be filtered using renewable energy.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Waste recycling</strong></p><p>Most off the waste from human sewer systems is water. &nbsp;That's a problem, once contaminated with pathogenic bacteria and chemicals from human waste, it is toxic. &nbsp;</p><p>
Confining the toxic portion of the plumbing and breakdown process to air powered systems for flushing and digesting, would leave regular sewer water easily recyclable in a series of wetland holding ponds. &nbsp;The water would then be suitable for irrigation. &nbsp;Irrigating greenhouses would allow solar and &nbsp;geo heat exchange powered distillation of the water to render it fit for human consumption.</p><p>
Or it could be filtered using renewable energy.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:13:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>Icterids vs. Warblers</strong></p><p>Sammie,<br>
Red-winged Blackbirds are wonderful examples, very photogenic. &nbsp;I know them from the seashore wetlands of southern New Jersey.</p><p>
Icteridae includes the blackbirds, the meadowlarks, the grackles and the orioles. &nbsp;As a suggestion to Lisa Hymas, I was looking for a bird both photogenic and with a memorable voice. &nbsp;Meadowlarks fit the bill, as definitely do red-winged blackbirds.</p><p>
I have nothing against grackles, but they are rather intense and uncompromising, shall we say, who rarely appear on people's lists of "My Favorite Birds."</p><p>
Orioles are well-loved, with a nice whistle, and they surely will eat worms. &nbsp;But I do not know if they go after worms especially, or if they frequent farm fields at all.</p><p>
As for Warblers: I hate them. &nbsp;Which they should not take personally. &nbsp;In fact, they are gems, and it is always thrilling to spot one. &nbsp;But I am not a naturalist, nor an outdoorsman, nor a truly dedicated birder, so I have no patience to go trailing after them with my binoculars, getting more and more sea-sick, through the understory of a forest.</p><p>
The Worm-eating Warbler (Helmitheros vermivora: "worm-hunter" in Greek, followed by "worm-eating" in Latin) may be not quite what we are looking for, anyhow, in spite of its perhaps inaccurate name. &nbsp;Sibley says:</p><p>
&lt;&lt;<br>
Migrants found mainly in wooded understory, probing dead leaf clusters and vine tangles for insects and spiders.<br>
&gt;&gt;</p><p>
So: no open fields for this bird, and worms are not the preferred item on the menu.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Icterids vs. Warblers</strong></p><p>Sammie,<br>
Red-winged Blackbirds are wonderful examples, very photogenic. &nbsp;I know them from the seashore wetlands of southern New Jersey.</p><p>
Icteridae includes the blackbirds, the meadowlarks, the grackles and the orioles. &nbsp;As a suggestion to Lisa Hymas, I was looking for a bird both photogenic and with a memorable voice. &nbsp;Meadowlarks fit the bill, as definitely do red-winged blackbirds.</p><p>
I have nothing against grackles, but they are rather intense and uncompromising, shall we say, who rarely appear on people's lists of "My Favorite Birds."</p><p>
Orioles are well-loved, with a nice whistle, and they surely will eat worms. &nbsp;But I do not know if they go after worms especially, or if they frequent farm fields at all.</p><p>
As for Warblers: I hate them. &nbsp;Which they should not take personally. &nbsp;In fact, they are gems, and it is always thrilling to spot one. &nbsp;But I am not a naturalist, nor an outdoorsman, nor a truly dedicated birder, so I have no patience to go trailing after them with my binoculars, getting more and more sea-sick, through the understory of a forest.</p><p>
The Worm-eating Warbler (Helmitheros vermivora: "worm-hunter" in Greek, followed by "worm-eating" in Latin) may be not quite what we are looking for, anyhow, in spite of its perhaps inaccurate name. &nbsp;Sibley says:</p><p>
&lt;&lt;<br>
Migrants found mainly in wooded understory, probing dead leaf clusters and vine tangles for insects and spiders.<br>
&gt;&gt;</p><p>
So: no open fields for this bird, and worms are not the preferred item on the menu.

<p>Chickens deserve our true friendship!  So do fish!  So do other sentient beings!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:06:16 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/noisy-spring-silent-summer/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>Urine separation</strong></p><p>The new Green network had a demonstration on how to separate the valuable fertilzer from urine, it was a fairly simple process. &nbsp;Right now the nutrients in one person's urine is enough to completely supply the fertilizer needed to grow the crops that feed one person.</p><p>
Why buy fertilizer from russia and mining corporations that hold monopoly control over it? &nbsp;When it could be recycled from urine, that would more than pay for safely breaking down all the toxic compunds and recycling the water.</p><p>
Saving wildlife. &nbsp;And cutting food prices that are soaring due to weather extremes, chemical fertilizer prices, energy prices, and fuel farming ethanol.</p><p>
The Green network is really pretty good at times.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Urine separation</strong></p><p>The new Green network had a demonstration on how to separate the valuable fertilzer from urine, it was a fairly simple process. &nbsp;Right now the nutrients in one person's urine is enough to completely supply the fertilizer needed to grow the crops that feed one person.</p><p>
Why buy fertilizer from russia and mining corporations that hold monopoly control over it? &nbsp;When it could be recycled from urine, that would more than pay for safely breaking down all the toxic compunds and recycling the water.</p><p>
Saving wildlife. &nbsp;And cutting food prices that are soaring due to weather extremes, chemical fertilizer prices, energy prices, and fuel farming ethanol.</p><p>
The Green network is really pretty good at times.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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